Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

An argument could be made that he would be DQ'd by staging on an 'illegal' dial-in. Even though it was a mistake in the tower, it is ultimately the racer's responsibility to ensure the dial-in is correct.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with that, but I'm guessing that would have been the result had Jim managed to win that round.

If Hidalgo had been red, it wouldn't have mattered and he would have been reinstated following the opponent's DQ.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Yes, you could make that argument.
On the other hand, NHRA says , if you stage on it, you own it. (period)
Can't have it both ways.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Someone else already explained it very well, it doesn't matter that someone entered it incorrectly it is ultimately the racer's responsibility to ensure their dial is correct before they stage.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Agreed.. Just a lot of what if situations that could have been avoided if the tower and Jim had been paying attention.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

May the driver be aware. period .

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

What are the 'both ways' here? Seems consistent to me. If you stage on it, you own it, period.

Maybe the incorrect dial is allowed by the rules and maybe it isn't. In either case, if you stage on it, you own it.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

I think this has been brought up before, but could someone explicitly state where in the rules it says you have to dial under your index? I looked for a little bit and couldn't find it, but I very well could be missing something.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

'First' only applies if the infractions are of equal severity. If your opponent red-lights but 8 seconds later you hit the wall, you will be DQ'd for having the worse infraction.

I'm not sure where 'dial-in over index' would fall on the hierarchy of infractions; just pointing out that your 'end of story' statement because it is first would not be accurate.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Austin,

I think the 'Dialing Under The Index' section of Race Procedures, Section 2, Page 5 would cover it:

DIALING UNDER THE INDEX
Contestants in Super Stock and Stock have the option of dialing under
their class’ assigned index. It is the responsibility of each contestant to
place the selected time on the windshield and tower-side window prior
to each round of competition. Dial-unders may be changed between
rounds, including a rerun situation. All contestants not choosing to dial
under will automatically be handicapped on the basis of their assigned
class index. In cases where two cars of the same class are paired, the
race is conducted on a heads-up basis, regardless of any dialing under
considerations, and breakout rulings do not apply.

So, by the rule, you can dial whatever you like but you SHOULD be automatically capped at the class index. Interesting can of worms with this run, for sure.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Both ways comment would apply to those who say someone should be disqualified 4 an over the index dial........One which they did not submit.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Wrong.......

The first will always be the first......

Other than crossing the center line or outer boundary (wall)......

The first is a DQ......

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

I hope the SRAC and NHRA will address this and set the procedure and practices so we all know the rules.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

"All contestants not choosing to dial under will automatically be handicapped on the basis of their assigned class index." This is what lead me to believe the system wouldn't allow a dial over your index to be entered. An "at or below" in the line of code.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Seems to me the rule is clear, must dial at least the respective index or lower. Why is it unreasonable to expect the dial-in to be correctly entered when starting line crew all have headphones to communicate to tower? I'm sure Jim had the dial visible on the car, I guess bottom line is to do your job and everyone else's.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

When you staged, you signed off on it. The source of the dial is irrelevant.

The way the rule is written, there should not be a DQ for dialing over the index. Dialing under the index is simply a choice, and if you choose not to you "will" automatically be capped at the index.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Negative! The rule is FIRST OR WORST! If the second is worse than the first then second is out! If you red light and your opponent is light at the scale or his fuel is bad etc... he is out, you are back in. Period. Jim


.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

If you are the one entering dial-ins on the computer and your "friend" is racing, just put in a dial-in over the index for the other lane. If it is caught, no harm no foul. But by current rules, if it is accepted, BINGO.....your "friend" wins.

New rule proposal. "If a dial-in is entered wrong by the tower and can be proven after the run, a rerun will be allowed."

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Why should I have to subject my car to this just because you forgot to read your dial?

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

[QUOTE=Jason;534412]If you are the one entering dial-ins on the computer and your "friend" is racing, just put in a dial-in over the index for the other lane. If it is caught, no harm no foul. But by current rules, if it is accepted, BINGO.....your "friend" wins.

New rule proposal. "If a dial-in is entered wrong by the tower and can be proven after the run, a rerun will be allowed."[/QUOT

Old Rule: If your dail in is wrong, don't stage.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Let's mix this up a little. If there is no dial-in on your car the class index is your dial. So with an incorrect dial above the index, correct one should also be inserted. In other words you cannot dial above your class index, otherwise we ARE just Bracket Racing (Dial your own).

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

What about this: Heads up run with two different indexes on score boards, one correct and one over class index. Would it be the responsibility of the racer in the lane with the correct index to point out that the racer in other lane had the wrong (slower) index and had a distinct advantage? I don't know about other racers but in a heads up I have zero dial on the car, and doing everything to make sure I do everything correctly. I don't ever remember checking the dial in a heads up race. So who wins in a heads up race with this kind of mistake by race personal?

When is a racer staged? In my mind it is when the pre stage and the stage lights on his side of the tree are on. So...... racer A has both bulbs on and race B has one bulb on and then notices incorrect dial in his lane. Racer B backs out to notify official that dial is wrong, while all this communication is trying to take place with the official racer B get timed out and his side of tree goes red do to auto start. Does first or worst apply to racer B, both are wrong and correctable.

and so it goes

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

So I guess I'm guilty of 'assuming' the sanctioning body should be in charge (electronically or human) of "running the show". OK so it's up to the racer to keep it straight and hope they're not, ahem, Ignored!

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

If Redman (who actually knows sportsman racing) would have been the starter this would have never happened. Yes, it is up to the racer to make sure the dial is correct (all drivers are in "their zone" on the starting line), but does that mean he should be the only one paying attention. Where does our $360.00 go?

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

I have an interesting point on this. Shouldn't all this verification of dial in happen before you begin your burnout?? Once you accept the dial it is gospel. True the dial can't be more than the index, that is a given.

Once you light the top bulb I don't believe you can back out unless you are told to do so by the starter. I believe this is in the rule book. I could be wrong, I am only human and make mistakes sometimes.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

True enough.
Let's throw this out there then.
Car A redlights
Car B unloads an engine , last round of the day. Big clean up, start to finish. No weigh that round.
Car B fixes engine overnight, and comes back next morning, right or wrong?
Isn't that a worse infraction?

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

With well over 11,000 Views on this subject, i hope somebody in Glendora is reading this & all we could hope for is something like this to NEVER happen again.

In response to Chuck Beach: Where does our $360. GO ???? very good question.

I still like a hand held iPad & you punch in your Car # and Dial before you enter the water box. But i'm sure NHRA would need different software or something to do that.
But it would be worth it for 5 or 10 more dollars per racer IF it was an expensive fix.

Just my .03 cents.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

x2

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Larry this exact scenario happened to me at the Sportsnationals in Belle Rose a few years ago during the first round of class. My opponent was given a two tenths of a second head start due to an error in the tower using the wrong index for his lane. It was clearly a mistake with the wrong class and index on the time slip. My opponent was gracious in the mix up and we both agreed a re-run was the only fair thing to do. The race director agreed and it was re-run.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

At the Atlanta NMCA race, several weeks before the NHRA National Event, the dial in boxes at the starting line weren't working .... My question is, "Were they fixed and working at the National Event ?"

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Normally, unless you are at the front of your class you are burning out while a race is happening on track. I always verify the dial between burnout and pre-staging.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Good point Darrel. I guess each track is set up different in respect to the burn out box, and how the racers approach it from the staging lanes. I am most familiar with Pacific Raceways in Kent, Wa. since that is closest to me.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

There ya go.
Doesn't everyone wait for the clocks to re-set, before proceeding to pre-stage?
I don't even look at dial-in boxes...just the scoreboards,..and the other car's dial in.
I wouldn't stage if either one is wrong. Just about the time you pre-stage, they'll figure it out, and you'll be sitting there watching it all, and waiting.
Of course, I'm just a keyboard jockey , according to a few here.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

William call me tomorrow

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

If I remember correctly, it used to be that a driver could pre-stage, check the scoreboard and back out if there was an error with dial. That was changed quite a few years back that once you light the top bulb "you own it". I do my best to stop short of the beams, wait for the burnout smoke to clear (tailwind, right?) and the dials to pop up before I light the top (although I have to be honest there have been occasions when I didn't!). As much as I don't like the fact that if I correctly place my dial-in and someone in the tower makes a mistake with the input that I own it, however I do understand that it is my responsibility to check before pre-staging. What I would like clarity on is what happens if my dial gets entered over the index and I go on to "own it" and the other driver red lights, crosses the centerline, is light at the scales or does not pass fuel check. Who is the winner/wiener??? In my opinion, this is the only thing that needs clearing up. All else is clear, you pre-stage, you own it!

BTW-congrats to Cooter for his win in Atlanta. That's 2 consecutive years of azz kicking in ATL-he nearly doubled there last year. Know that the old man is proud! Deer stew and cold brew!

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

I wonder why this hasn't been fixed yet. All it would take is one simple line of code:

if dialin > index then dialin = index

I guess it would probably cost 3K+ to implement like the worst red light deal.

Get it done Compulink!

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

I totally agree on having index being noticed on computer as being wrong if it is installed with a slower then class index. But some how the human error on correcting to proper dial in needs to be figured out.
It sounds like there is a warning that goes off in tower when something is wrong but human error is still in play to correct it. Drivers should never put their trust in someone else's hands when it comes to racing. I doubt anyone lets a stranger work on their car, check air pressure, add fuel. So why would you trust a stranger in putting a correct dial on the scoreboard? Answer: You don't, its drivers responsibility

Going forward and all the bells and whistles go off and computer states dial in is slower then index and self corrects it. Its still not correct.
1) So now what will be said when a car is -1.00 under index and tower reverts over dial to class index dial in and driver does not notice and stages car? Answer: Driver is responsible for dial in has now excepted it.

2) Is this going to be ok when dial is still wrong and driver excepts by staging car? Answer: Yes as its responsibility to check dial in before pre staging.

3) Or will the complaining still continue and rerun be demanded? Answer: Yes

Bottom line is driver is responsible for proper dial in before pre staging no matter what's on the board or when computer operator installs wrong dial even if dial in is 99.99 on score boards. Drivers need to take responsibility for your own demise.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

Also, Toby stated that a addition to the system (dial in > index = index) would have self corrected Mr. Hills example of 2 cars in the same class and yet operator installs 1 car with slower then index dial in. Then this race would have been corrected and a heads up race would have been run properly.

Re: Rd #3 Stock @ Atlanta
 

At the NMCA race at Atlanta in April, I was part of the first pair in round 1 of Stock Superstock. They had the correct dial in on the scoreboards, so we did a burnout. Went to prestage and the dial ins changed to index in my lane. They backed us up for several minutes to fix the problem. When it appeared to be fixed, they motioned us back up to stage. We didn't quite get staged and the dial in went back to index. They backed us up again. After what seemed like a long delay we were motioned back up. I did another burnout and pulled up to stage. Scoreboards changed again to index. Backup and wait. Finally they got the problem fixed and we finally got to run. Maybe they have computer problems that need fixing. Randy E