Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

I've had some email saying you have to have a 100k car to qualify in the top 10. You're proposal is for the rich. Well, I dont think that's true. I know several racers that can qualify in the top 10 that dont have nearly that much in their car. After 11 years we are finally getting our car to run decent. We've had the power with Allen's engine but could never put it all together. We are close to -.90 under now and working for more. Can we ever get in the top 10 in qualifying that remains to be seen. We will find out soon enough. Thanks for all those who support my proposals, I appreciate it. Ed

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

I have a low qualifying stocker, Which is a stick car, And I still agree with making S/SS
Performance based as Ed has suggested. My Superstocker is fast, but I have it turned WAY down on RPM because it is useless to beat up the motor for no reason, based on current racing rules. I always want to go faster, but Then I tell myself why bother, other than self EGO.

Good Luck Ed and everyone else who is committed to making S/SS the best it can.

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Now, that's funny, right there...

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

The difference between you and Todd Hoven is that if he gets beat in a few heads up runs he goes backs to the drawing board , works on the car ,etc,etc, You,on the other hand will be done with traveling very far. Stock eliminator is NOT for everyone. Us OLD guys don't appreciate it when you newbies try to DUMB it down to fit your agenda. Kinda like a college basketball player entering the NBA and asking the commissioner to move the 3 point line closer to the basket....LOL.....

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Sounds to me like you like Comp Eliminator more than Stock/SuperStock. I would make the switch if that is really what floats your boat. There are many other items to address to bring people back to racing, biggest one is funding. Things have gotten incredibly expensive outside of racing to allow a lot of participation these days. Health Care, Housing, Jobs ect.. I myself miss it and I will be back soon as soon as I finish my new build.

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

e-mail sent to you Ed.

Thanks for your hard work on this matter.

As someone that enjoys setting Stock records, I would like to see NHRA return to posting both the 1/8th and 1/4 mile records in National Dragster.

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

One thing that is brought up quite a bit is that racers feel the factory cars will get all the top 10 points for qualifying. I dont think that's true. As we've seen this weekend there are traditional cars that can run very fast they just general dont show it. It will come down to if you want the point hold your foot down in qualifying. Herd is the top 10 this weekend. Oh just to keep people up to date many positive emails and texts this week about my proposal and one you need to go to comp lol......

As you can see a variety of cars qualified in top 10.

ENGLISHTOWN, N.J. - Final order after 3 rounds of qualifying in Stock Eliminator at the NHRA Mello Yello Drag Racing Series, 48th NHRA Summernationals:
Psn--Num--Class-Driver, Home Town, Machine-----------------ET---Index---(+/-)

1 1977 F/SA Michael Iacono, Ridge NY, '85 Camaro 10.646 11.85 -1.204
2 1204 FS/D Don Carson, Ridgewood NJ, '13 Mustang 9.422 10.60 -1.178
3 77 F/SA Mike Cotten, Cave Creek AZ, '73 Duster 10.714 11.85 -1.136
4 1013 A/SA David Ficacci, Whippany NJ, '69 Camaro 9.876 11.00 -1.124
5 1608 FS/D Gary Richard, Bayshore NY, '10 Mustang 9.483 10.60 -1.117
6 J191 FS/B Jonathan Allegrucci, Scott Township PA, ' 8.884 10.00 -1.116
7 1525 H/SA Daniel Lynch, Clifton Park NY, '69 Camaro 11.036 12.15 -1.114
8 1021 K/SA Eugene Monahan, Brockton MA, '89 Pontiac 11.542 12.65 -1.108
9 198 I/SA Steve Szupka, Northampton PA, '85 Camaro 11.195 12.30 -1.105
10 154 G/SA Anthony Fetch, Colonia NJ, '69 Camaro 10.896 12.00 -1.104

ENGLISHTOWN, N.J. - Final order after 3 rounds of qualifying in Super Stock at the NHRA Mello Yello Drag Racing Series, 48th NHRA Summernationals:
Psn--Num--Class-Driver, Home Town, Machine-----------------ET---Index---(+/-)

1 1990 FSS/D David Barton, Robesonia PA, '14 Mustang 8.830 9.90 -1.070
2 1735 FGT/B Don Belles Jr, Lensdale PA, '08 Mustang 8.212 9.20 -0.988
3 1671 GT/MA William Kennedy, Wilkes Barre PA, '85 Fir 10.213 11.20 -0.987
4 1005 FSS/F David Thomas, W. Chester PA, '11 Challeng 9.245 10.20 -0.955
5 1058 GT/LA James Daniels, Yardley PA, '84 Camaro 10.105 11.05 -0.945
6 75 GT/JA Mike Cotten, Cave Creek AZ, '70 Barracuda 9.858 10.80 -0.942
7 1022 FGT/J Jeffrey Bardekoff, Commack NY, '68 Barrac 9.664 10.60 -0.936
8 1513 GT/OA Doug Chervanik, Sunbury PA, '82 Camaro 10.516 11.45 -0.934
9 1515 GT/EA Jeffrey Lawrence, Qougue NY, '88 Mustang 9.170 10.10 -0.930
10 1903 SS/CA Jeff Ellex, Lackawaxen PA, '69 Camaro 9.124 10

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Ed, many (maybe most?) slow guys think people faster than them have, or at least spend, more money. Can't possibly be their own lack of knowledge, ability, or effort. Likely spend no time or money on testing. Some of them even buy engines. They should just go run ET brackets.

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

What are the prerequisites to fit in with class racers, you gotta build your own engine?

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Ed, when I got back into racing after raising my family, I thought I could still build a competitive engine since I could run the record in early 70's....I was way wrong. Until I got a Steve Wann engine, I couldn't even run the index.

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

No prerequisites other than you have to understand class racing enough to appreciate it, love it and respect it. "Fitting in" is like any family; some you get along with, some you don't, but you don't divorce anybody. Every family has a crazy uncle or cousin or two, and you learn to just live with them. And you have some that you'd rather not be around, but you keep it to yourself and don't bad mouth them. It's like if your brother is a thief; you love him but you lock up your valuables if he is coming over.

To have a friend, be a friend. Keep plugging in and you will find your niche.

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Ed,
Ignore them.

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Oh good... I thought I was going to have to buy a machine shop.:D

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Ed ,
All great ideas . The only things that comes Into mind is when you wrote no cost to NHRA a few times . In my Opinion that should be left out because in order for National Records , Top Qualifier , Class Winners ect to
Count NHRA has to Tech and do Teardown and that =$$$ period..

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

x2!

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10-4 appreciate thr feedback

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

F.W.I.W., I did get a response from Mr. Light:

Alan,
Thank you for taking the time to forward your comments. We appreciate your input.

Regards,
Graham


Just hope they seriously consider Ed's proposals

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Thanks Alan

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Ed -
First, I applaud your work and effort on this. Second, incentives and rewards for performance in Stock/SS is a basic way to make the categories valuable and keep them alive. Third, I emailed you for a copy of the proposal and never got a reply. Fourth, you have to ignore the nay-sayers. Fifth, this will be as much a political decision for NHRA as a business procedural decision, so be prepared for a long and complicated process to get there. We all need to help.

Dwight Southerland

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Dwight I'm sorry please send me another email please.

trooper10538@netzero.com

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Just for fun, I sent another follow-up email to Mr. Light about this. Never heard back during the offseason.......

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Huh, imagine that! Jim

.:rolleyes:

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Glen Gray is a good guy but overwhelmed and IMO this shouldn't be a tech group issue.

As a manufacturer rep I proposed similar points for qualifying ideas to Josh Peterson. I think some version of this has been batted around by NHRA brass for at least 4 years.

There is no sportsman racing business manager that this should probably go through and I think it's easy for it to fall through the cracks.

I wish you luck, I think it's a good idea and I'd like to see it.

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

I would love to see class eliminations at divisionals. That would be awesome! Thanks for putting in the effort.

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Ed, I like your ideas.
Looking at the latest ND and I can't find a records page.
Looks like they have gone backwards again.
Pete

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Great idea though sadly with the Harley Baggers, Snowmobiles, etc. here I'm not sure there is enough time in the day.

At the very least run qualifying off of the class indexes so spectators see the cars, except the 1000' lifts, close at the finish line.

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

I've said for years that time trials should be ran off the index's. Not only make more sense to the casual fan but as a driver get more seat time with finish line closing ratios. Cost nothing! I see zero downside to it

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

I agree 1000%
Especially from a fan`s perspective
Who wants to see a 13.00 second car leave with an 8.80 FS car
It looks rediculous
Mike A114

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Mr. Light responded today saying he would talk to Glen Gray and the SRAC reps and get back to me. We'll see if anything happens. Now that the seasons started I don't look to anything happening this year......

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

It looks like all of your suggestions, except the added points, could be implemented with just a word from the top man. Printing records and letting people know as they were being set (as has been done in the past) is easy enough. Running time trials off of the index would be much better for fans as well as racers. Looks like division directors could add class racing if they so desired. I'll visit with mine next time I see him.
Pete

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

The concern I have for combining stk/auto records is the weight break for auto's in the modified classes. All cars or trucks running a full auto may remove up to 5% or 250 pounds. Stick cars have to run the stated pounds per cubic inch. Perhaps have all cars run the same pounds per cubic inch.
We are a small number of cars but I would like to remain in Super Stock.

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

My guess is there are several automatic cars that will say it isn't fair to run against a stick at the same weight! I know a few cars that have added sticks and went quite a bit quicker!

On the other hand, if NHRA is consistent, you won't have to worry about the 5% or 250 pound difference. There is no difference in Factory Super Stock and Factory GT classes between sticks and automatics.

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

I really like just about all of the suggestions, especially qualifying off the index.

Combining sticks and autos for traditional cars, I'm not sure. There is a significant difference between stock and superstock.

It would be nice to see if nitro joe could use his spreadsheet to simulate same index factor and see how everything plays out. The low # of stick cars allows for a low/lower budget competitor to compete in the eliminator with a low heads up risk. This is true in both stock and superstock.

I think it would have the potential for decreasing stick participation especially in the F-G-H catagories in stock. Not sure about the A class....

I run both autos and sticks, and enjoy both.....sticks are more fun, but certainly not a .10 faster in a G class, if anything the autos are a .10 faster with radials. 12 index for G/SA while 11.90 for G/S.......oddly T/SA and T/S are both 14.40....

Indy just wouldn't be the same at all running combined class for the classic cars......not even close.

Just my thoughts.

Eric

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

I'm in the long process of building a car For S/S (way down the food chain LOL). I have been around Drag Racing for many years... 40+. During that time have built and/or modified 100s of race cars. I know what it takes to build a "Best Engineered" award winning race car as I have several awards for such in the NHRA, IHRA, and ISCA. I do all the work in Design and Fabrication, Body & Paint, Engine Assembly, etc... basically the only hands to touch the car. Being the fastest is not in my program, but I have respect for whoever that may be. I don't have any problem with deep pockets being the fastest, and even those that have the resources (Money, Talent, Mom & Dad, and friends) that it takes to be fast. But in most, if not all cases it does require some additional resources to be the fastest ... now if you do it all yourself, and you are the fastest ... you are one bad Mofo, and I would be the first to give you a standing ovation. I like the concept of additional awards (points and/or money) for top qualifiers and class winners even though that will never be me on my own. I will have to get mine driving both ends, and that's OK. Remember.. when bracket racing started, it was because everyone could not keep up with Class Racing Cost to compete, and/or be competitive. Drag racing would have died long ago without Bracket Racing. Now don't get me wrong .... THE FASTEST IS THE COOLEST! but reasonable affordability is the key to keeping it alive ... for the racer ... and the fan

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Combine sticks with automatics. NO! no, no,no,no,no........

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

They care nothing about consistency. I brought up this very issue a couple years ago, to deaf ears. They literally would not even acknowledge that I had asked the question.

In classes where sticks and autos are combined, if XYZ classes get a weight break, why don't ABC classes get it?
OR
If ABC classes don't get it, why do XYZ classes?

I don't care which way it is, but be consistent.


I have advocated for combining sticks and autos and consolidating a limited amount of weight breaks for YEARS. There are already different HP factors for sticks & autos. Let it shake out. Most people are more interested in protecting their own perceived advantage in a small pond. People lose their minds if you dare mention that they are bracket racing, but apparently they don't want any more heads-up racing, either.

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Ed,

For the first time today I read your entire proposal and the rest of this thread.

Your proposal is certainly very well written and appears to be getting serious consideration.

I only part I don't agree with would be combining sticks and automatics. While there may be some cases where the cars would be equal I don't that that would usually be the case.

SS/AH is a class that combines manual and automatics. I think the vast majority these days run manuals. Which tells me they think the manuals are faster.

While I have not done any research I think the lower class cars would be at a disadvantage running automatics.

I was very disappointed to see you had received some abusive emails. I guess some Class racers don't have any class.

Thanks for your passion for the sport.
Bill Lamb

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

I just don’t get what you guys are so afraid of by combining sticks and autos. It cuts the classes in half. Sticks will have an advantage in heads up with their soft factors, but Autos clearly have an advantage in the eliminator with their constancy. Maybe this would bring more sticks to the table, which I wouldn’t mind because I’ll keep my auto and win the eliminator. How many stick combos go rounds these days? I can think of a few great stick racers, but the majority have trouble with the dial and the tree. even Kevin Helms rolls the Auto now. Most stick cars don’t make 2nd round, so If you can’t dodge a first round heads up, that’s on you. Heads up is only like 3% of the time in the eliminator. What are y’all scared of?

Re: Proposal and NHRA and IHRA Responses
 

Just so everyone knows back when I originally pitched this idea it was sent to all SRAC reps. They were to get with their racers and discuss. Nhra advised me they were going to get with all reps before getting back to me. I'm starting to get a ton of heat about sticks and autos. Back when I pitched it most were for it. Now the winds are changing. I'm ok with that. We need dialogue and discussions on the matter. I'm a state trooper so I have thick skin. In the end if they put national records back into play and make class mean something again I will have succeeded here. Time will tell....Good luck to everyone this year. If your going to Baytown I will see you there....Ed

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Good points, you did not have any trouble with me the only time we raced, automatic to automatic. LOL...