Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

I remember the old days, back when Cloy or Farmer would bounce you for having the wrong trim on the car. Back when Tech meant something. I remember the private Top Fuel teams blowing up all the time and then the call would go out for Stock to the lanes. I remember a special lane for Record Setting attempts. I remember when we would make 6-8 passes in a day instead of sitting around BSing about the good old days and hoping to get a pass or maybe 2 if lucky. I remember when you could race AHRA,IHRA or NHRA and there were full fields of cars. AHRA died with Jim Tice, Billy Meyer killed IHRA and Greed is killing NHRA.
Pro Stock used to be entertaining with a great mix of all brands of cars. Then politics and corruption took over and it became a GM playground. NHRA will never change with the current Hierarchy in charge who are more interested in lining their own pockets and sucking the racers dry.
We need a revolution but you can't get 2 racers to agree on anything.

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Farmer bounced me from the 1971 Nationals, because my 1969 roadrunner did not have side lights. Claimed I was cutting weight. Obviously, 68 Roadrunner had side lights, 69s have reflectors. I had the build sheet in the trailer and fixed the problem. Farmer was a piece of work and no arguing with him.

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Bernie, for once I agree with you. Example being F1...ga-millions of dollars spent for a tenth on a 2 mile track. Or...half a million for a leased motor for pro stock...everything is out of hand. Another example is the pro basketball player that makes 40 million a year. It is stupid. The same player would play for much less if that was the going rate.....maybe half a million a year (how many of us would work for $500,000 a year)...the world has changed and we sportsman are no longer in favor for a number of reasons (factories no longer sell 69 Roadrunners).... so, if we desire to race, either accept the facts or do our own thing....whatever that might be.

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Nope... not saying that at all, and I suspect you realize that. What I talked about isn't THE problem, but it is certainly ONE OF THE problems.

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

The fans ain't ever coming back. There's no home town heroes to follow. Factory Stock will do nothing to gain fans. Just the way it is.

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

The paying fans are now watching grudge style heads up racing.

The "Lights Out" races that Donald Long puts on are a prime example of great marketing and event management.
When you have to close the gates because the place is too full, then you know you did a good job.

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Good perspective. While it may not be THE answer, it certainly can add life to Stock/SS. It is basically what John Force did when he got started. Not only did he promote himself, but Funny Car racing got a real shot in the arm. Many racers need to get over their grumpy, introverted, negative, selfish, self-righteous limitations and promote their own stuff.

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Bob, I think you're spot on with this post. I remember when my uncle was racing pro stock and they had to run the division races. Making the PRO's run the divsionals and gain points to move up would bring more fans and more PRO competitors.And in turn would bring more fans and competitors in all other classes.




Bret Velde
SS/LA

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Dwight, I glad you said it since I don't have enough class racing credits. I looked at the efforts of Michael Beard and his S/SS promotions only to be thwarted by lack of participation. Everyone that I spoke to was pleasantly surprised by those events. I can never figure it out. A day of drag racing definitely beats anything else as a pass time.

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

^^ I agree.
I missed the first Class Nationals but had a great time at the 2nd one in 2015.
That was the first time I ever got to run in a C.I.C. race

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Lets see, you want to kill the class that has lead development for how many years? Big Three has benefited from their development. Did they have spec carbs before? No. Let PS have any injection they want and lets see some more development. RPM limit, why? Its their money...Wheelie bar limit? Didn't change anything. Hood scoop, they are still pulling air from the front.. They want in on the muscle sale. OK, your cars are very cool, go run them in FS. I like the new cars. I don't care for them trying to replace Pro Stock even if they are; using PS technology. And you know how I feel about STOCK!

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

And FS?

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Factory Stock Race Cars starts with a factory body in white from the factory.LOL

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Here's my 2 cents...

Want to get the OEM's and Fan's interested in PS again? Make it a showcase for OEM's just like the old days. Make the manufacturer midway a traveling OEM-only car show where they can display their products. And make the drag strip action an OEM thrill ride for the drivers and fun to watch for the fans. Make it all about developing brand loyalty!!!

Do whatever you need to do in order to get back to where "Win on Sunday - Sell on Monday" works again. Sell on Monday doesn't necessarily have to be a whole new car. It can also be OEM performance parts, OEM replacement parts, special dealer packages, oil changes, anything that gets a person in to a dealership, etc.....

Right now, PS cars don't resemble anything you can buy at a dealership. Zero. Nothing. I'd also guess that there is little-to-no technology transfer from PS to an OEM and vice versa. OEM technology and PS technology are like apples & oranges in the current world. That needs to change too. OEM's would ***** their pants with joy if the money they invest in a PS teams could also somehow provide engineering returns.

Does Factory Stock do all that? I'm guessing not, but it's a good start. The Big 3 manufacturers in the US produce cars specifically for FS and other Stock & SS classes. I say leave that class for sportsman racers and rebuild Pro Stock in to what would essentially be Factory Stock on Steroids! How do we get there? We can keep some of the current rules, but how about some of these changes to make the on-track action a little bit more brand brand apparent, more relatable, unpredictable, and more exciting to watch...

How about OEM bodies or at least stock body templates? (NHRA can work out aero differences between makes in the wind tunnel)

How about factory built fuel injection? (think direct injection)

How about 10.5W tires?

How about no wheelie bars?

How about superchargers and/or turbos on engines with factory-type architecture?

Yeah, the above will piss off some of the current class elite.....Yeah, it will cost money....Yeah the class will lose racers initially.....But yeah, it will get the OEM's back. And yeah, it will get the fans back too. And when the OEM's and fan are back, I guarantee that racers, new and maybe some old, will show up too.

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Just in case anybody missed this interview from wfo radio, Elite Racing's Richard Freeman dispells a lot of misinformation. He also talks specifically about the feedback he's gotten from OEM's regarding Pro Stock and discusses all of the major issues going on with Pro Stock right now. Its a good listen and Richard Freeman is very to the point with his comments as always.

http://wforadio.com/

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

From my experience racing SS in the 90s and early 2000 era, plus being a fan first to all drag racing, there are way more issues than pro stock. Remember Asher is a veteran writer, but has always been a nitro friend first. He doesn't love door cars from reading him for years. So Jade Grenade his PS ideas!

NHRA slipped up years ago when Wally left. They started a program where the cars were no longer the stars. They tried to emulate NASCAR where the drivers are the stars. I never came to watch a driver, I came for the cars and the party.

NHRA started a focus on advertising, where every extra spot on the TV screen was an ad.
They no longer care about the performance industry, and you no longer even see the best axle maker at the events.

NHRA doesn't make it a fair experience for the spectators. Its all about the advertisers, and their VIP accommodations. Just go to Joliet this weekend and look for the free parking spots! There are actually 2-3 tiers of VIP parking, leaving the average Joe a longer walk to the stands. Screw the fans over, and they will choose something else!

Remember when the funnest events, allowed parking behind or near the bleachers? Where did that space go to? Bigger tow rigs have hurt race car counts and fan appeal. Drive around a major race, and all you see is a campground of tall rigs, and few race cars. Now a spectator has to walk miles to see all the cars.

Bottom line is, Pro Stock didn't cause the technology problem. All drag racing is in chaos. I don't even know what the premier 9 or 10 wide tire event is, because they all are called World Ultimate Big Daddy turbo nitrous war. I actually want to go and see more of these, if it resembles a party and not a VIP parking event.

A fan wants to remain cool, and not get fleeced. They want to feel like they are at a party that can't be missed. You can stream races, and watch them on FS1 without the fleecing, but you miss the old time fun of seeing it live and meeting racers and fans.

There is nothing better than watching SS class at Indy, except for winning class at Indy!
As for Factory Stock... its been a bunch of lopsided mismatches from the start. I don't care for the blowers, they out run SS/AH cars, but I would rather watch SS/AH. In 2-5 years, a new Camaro or Mustang will be used plastic, and belong to a faded time. Who cares about a 1991 Olds Achieva anymore? They were once new, and the timeless cars will always be fun to watch. Well the new cars are good drivers and fun, but are blowers really needed? Its supposed to be about subtle mechanical skills in my mind.

Technology hurts the entertainment of watching the PS class, and comp, and other classes. The fast way down the track is the flattest and smoothest, so that's their goal. Go back and watch late 1970s Pro Stock on youtube, its way fun to watch, because its basically Modified Production on cash steroids.

Did the new rules make a change in PS? Yeah they ran off people racing PS, and made the whole thing more expensive, for people trying to get in. The brass made another dumb move, and I have no hope for NHRA to right the coarse. I still watch but can't believe how many dudes have quit, and chosen other fun things to do.

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Right now the 3 mfgs have cars scattered throughout the alphabet and bragging rights where they can find them....lump all 3 into factory pro stock and you are back to trying to make them equal: weight, drag coefficient, cubic inch, or they back out (see PS/Truck), ain't gonna work

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Hate to piss in everyone's Wheaties, but there is more support these days for drag queens than there is for drag racing. And the majority of the support that still remains for drag racing ain't for stock, super stock, comp or pro stock. Anyone paying attention knows that. And anyone with kids certainly knows that.

I gave my kids kickass Jr. Dragsters five years ago. It was fun a few times, but now they just sit in the corner collecting dust. I'll be lucky to get ten cents on the dollar for them. I have a stocker project in the works for my son. Guess what? It's sitting there too. Hard to convince kids that drag racing is cool, exciting and fun when they have to wait the entire day in the heat to make only a few passes. We call it relaxing, and a time to hang out with friends. They call it boredom.

The bottom line: There's no "fixing" the situation. The drag racing we know and love is withering on the vine and has been for a while. You can't live in the past, and you can't recreate the past. For those who do, it's called nostalgia.

The only thing you can do is enjoy it while we can. Nothing lasts forever....

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

x2

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Here is the fly in the ointment regarding any solution. The biggies have millions and millions of dollars in r&d out there. Heads, injection, chassis, even aerodynamics. Any solution is going to make some of that totally worthless, which means some will be out big, big $$$$. That rubs some folks the wrong way, and they make waves. This will be interesting, but NHRA is kind of painted into a corner here.....

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

Thanks Don!
Great post.

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

My opinion, I've watched and raced since the sixtys, back then it wasn't just racing, it was BRAND AFFILIATION, I personally liked Plymouth, if they lost I went home. There has to be something to root for, your hero, your buddy, whatever, not just a race. I remember my first national event, 77 Gators. Loved funny cars but after the last pair went done the track I had enough, it gets old quick.just watching, Pro stock was entertaining then because the Chevys where always chasing Glidden, in the Ford or Plymouth, then the Dodges. Now just Cameros, boring. There was always someone to root for or against. Now it's no different than NASCAR, all look the same, without the decal no telling what car it is. The big three drove racing, now it's a joke. In 3-5 years after they stop making these "factory race cars" what happens then? The old Stockers and Super Stockers are still my period in time so I'll stay there and go down with the ship. The fix, there is none, they're done. Like Brad Pitt said everything changes, nothing stays the same.

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

X2
Well Put!!

Re: Interesting...Jon Asher on Pro Stock and Factory Stock
 

I could go either way, Dodge or Plymouth. Sort of like both kinds of music, Country AND Western. The Jenkins Vega was the beginning of the end of PS for me. That was a big move away from Stock and they just starting calling it PRO. More opportunity to cheat and modify the cars and get to where the bubble aero cars we have today. I thought Freeman was spot on about the aero being needed for safety. At some point for safety they would have needed to go to the tube chassis. I thought the comment about the Factory Stock cars already being too fast was interesting as well. They should have their own class and go to bigger tires, 10.5"? The comments about the difficulty of getting sponsorship at the end of the interview was interesting. It's not there for most teams.