Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

But that is different. That has nothing to do with any new rules or parts. It is all about hard work.....

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

I say bring it! The water is fine, although it appears to be shark infested!!

Wade O

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

I have nothing against any of the new cars, I like to old stuff.

As I told a friend of mine, its pure arrogance to assume you're going to win class at Indy, let alone 3 of them.

I can't do a single thing about your weight sticker. I can, however, work harder to catch up. That's what I'll put my energy in to.....

Wade O

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

That was done so that the cars would be cheaper to insure at the time. It wasn't done so they could run a mile under the index and beat-up on the older cars.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

Gump, I would probably argue the point in this particular case the '07 403 number is more in line than the 365 number assigned to the new COPO based stocker.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

I think Bob Burkitt's Behemoth '62 Dodge Wagon to be freak'n beautiful!

Sorry Jimi!

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

But a lot of them did. And a lot still can.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

I'm mot arguing at all. The number is what it is.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

Anyone that thinks a FS car will go a mile under index from the manufacturer is SADLY MISTAKEN!!!

Someone building a competitive car, (deep under index) has spent some coin to do so!

Whether it was just bought outright or years of development... Big money is spent to get there.

With out a doubt I have respect for the team that has worked long hours and many years to go fast, but a soft combo will always be a soft combo with the way the AHSF works.

There are no FS cars even close to the 9's at the weight break that that D/SA in the 9's, period. (Well according to Nitro Joe Stats).

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

NHRA should just put everybody back to factory hp ratings and make a somewhat of a level playing field again . Give the older cars a better chance and then the new cars actually run 1/4 mile instead of 1000 feet ! Then let the system work it out.

Its never going to be fair to run a 69 camaro against a 2017 camaro technology will always be ahead if not Pro stock would be running 9.90's still!

You can take an ls motor throw a cam in it and run .70 under, take a 396 throw a cam in it
and run .70 over lol

I like new and old have had both ! Its all neat just needs to be fair for everyone somehow.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

I don't matter. There is no hp penalty at Indy.
Because of this the old cars will Never catch up
Indy is where you should be able to make a NEW ad get hp hit
This Is a problem. But most of you are drunk on the Koolaid

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

Maybe it was all just luck, but a few years ago I dyno'ed a 427/425 that a friend built for a Yenko clone.

He bought 100% original parts, including cam, carb, heads, etc. because for some reason it mattered to him that it was all original.....even though the pistons were knurled, the valves were sunk to China, the block was ridge-reamed, and on and on.

It made 570 HP on a DTS dyno with a set of Hooker street car headers.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

It was rated 425 for the insurance companies. You know that. Heck back in 1969 the factories had no interest in stock eliminator. The COPO 427/425 was actually a towing package........

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

Your right it doesn't matter at Indy . I was talking just in general . Nothing will change anyway.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

So what car or cars are we talking about here???

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

376/426hp 15 Camaro.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

Thanks Larry. How many of these cars are going to indy?

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

Isn't it the 2015 Camaro 2dr Coupe with the 376/365 horsepower combination? It was 426 horsepower in the 2010 Camaro at 3849 pounds.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

My bad, the engine specs for the 15 engine are better than the 2010 376 / 426 engine. I must have look at the incorrect window while comparing the two engines. 3849# I thought they were in the two ton range, not the 3150# of the 15 Camaro

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

The HP number is in line with the Challenger.

The base weight is 3320. And no, a zero option 1SS doesn't weigh two tons. I would love to know what a stripped Challenger weighs.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

There should be a "modern Stock eliminator" for the factory drag pak style cars...say 2006-7 and up whenever they came out runs that..it's sad they don't care about the old cars "NHRA - No Hot Rods Allowed "

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

Well said young man. Nhra could care less about old iron. Well, my iron is 51 years old and I'll be running it when it's 71 years old. Glendora doesn't even know what the term "old iron means".

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

Just trying to better understand the conversation.....

Is the complaint that AHFS is not enforced at Indy and the 2015 Camaro will be leaps & bounds faster than other A/SA combinations?

AHFS is enforced at most other events, so there should be no problem or complaint if everyone thinks AHFS is effective. Does anyone think AHFS is not effective? If yes, why do you think so?

If neither of those are the problem, is it the horsepower rating? Not sure why or how that can be a problem, considering the fact that most 1960's - 1970's muscle cars had advertised horsepower ratings that in some cases were 100 or more HP lower than actual HP on some very popular combinations.

If none of these are the problem, is it because the 2015 Camaro guy didn't "work on it for xx years" to make it fast? If yes, does that mean that all of the existing A/SA cars were worked on by their owners for many years? I tend to doubt that is the case, considering how many engine builders, chassis shops, and speed parts outlets are involved in NHRA Stk/SS.

Maybe I'm missing it altogether, so if there is a problem that does not relate to any of the above or if I am incorrect with those please help me to understand.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

Looks like the big three sets at a table, pushes numbers around then hands these bogus numbers to NHRA who the has neither the guts, brains, cares or balls to say BS! Pass it on down to tech and say show me the money.
Mike

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

lol!

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

If the Camaro is ran as a 2015 SS is it a car with a vin number? If it doesn't it is a COPO. If it is a car with a vin doesn't it have to run the corporate rear end not the ford.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

Are you saying the AHFS is not effective?

Let's suppose all the factories got together & gave NHRA a billion dollars to allow their 500 HP cars to run with a 100 HP rating.

Would racers with the 100 HP-rated cars get penalized for running too far under the index on average and on the spot if it is really extreme?

I'm still trying to understand why HP ratings are a problem, since they have always been grossly underrated since at least the early to mid-sixties and the NHRA has the AHFS in place to balance out the playing field.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

Body In White cars (no VIN) have been running in stock for a very long time. It doesn't say anything about a VIN in the rules. Why would that even make a difference?

The corporate rear is another thing. When I started building my Camaro in 2011 I was told by the NHRA that I had to run a 12 bolt. I was also told that the cowl had to be left alone.......

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

That motor would make probably 100hp more than Larry's old 440!

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

What if it's a '69 Camaro built from a Dynacorn body?

Those don't come with VIN's, so does that mean a person who builds from a Dynacorn should also have to purchase a factory-built '69 Camaro to get the VIN?

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

Pretty sure after 50 years NHRA know what the early engines are capable of, maybe not so with the new ones yet and the AHFS only works at 1320 ft not 1000.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

The one that got a HP reduction and wins class all over the place? (no offense Larry. You know I love Ya)

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

That is what I was talking about. The body in white cars/ wrecks built as a stocker/super stocker is what I meant not vin numbered cars. I know of some fords that were body in white or wrecks that were made into cobra jet cars but they didn't have the rear axle issue. But on a GM car and the drag pack cars they have a rear axle issue if they aren't made that way ie COPO factory drag pack. But that is just my thinking.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

As I understand it, ALL 2008 and later cars can run a 9" rear end, IRS can be replaced with hard axle. Moser will sell you the approved kit if you want.

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

So if he races to the 1000' mark, does that make him more consistent to his dial-in?

And if he decides to stay in it to the 1320' on his 1000' dial-in, will he win?

I suppose the answer is "yes" if he's running class, but then he stands a chance of getting HP added if he runs too far under his index. Correct?

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

Since day one it's called sand bagging, done in every kind of sport and enterprise. IMO when you see someone bury the record they're either not thinkng or trying to drum up business (that engine flies, I want one).
Mike

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

So you agree then that it really does not impact guys with older cars if a guy with a newer car buries the record & gets HP piled all over himself?

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

NEW OR OLD doesn't matter!! If a car goes stupid fast whether it's in really good air or not it should get hit!! Just look at the car that went 9.98 in D/SA! So what will it go at indy, 10.15??

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

The car or cars in question should be bad fast !! I'm sure Mr Sherman will make who ever comes, show all they got!!

Re: New A/SA In Minnesota
 

J. Allen. Jump in here and stir this pot. Need a big spoon.