Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I have been following this post and the decline in Ford's on-track performance. I was waiting to post in hopes of seeing something this weekend, but again no, another race without a Ford even the SHowdown semi's. Not one final appearance this year for Ford. So as an open forum I have a few questions too.

What is Ford's plan for improving results in NHRA, particularly Factory Showdown?

Why are the specs so vague on the 2018 Cobra Jet they announced and will it get Ford back competitive?
For $130K you'd be involved in every decision at a race shop but the released specs on this car tell very little and ask racers to sign up for a big invoice without even seeing a running car. Or maybe it's not intended to go NHRA racing, if so will there be a program for racers to build cars easily?

WHen will the 2018 CJ's be out? The internet says 2019 Mustang street cars are being built already. I've heard race teams were told last summer that the Cobra Jet would be out last year, now I guess it's spring of next year?

If the 2018 will be competitive for Factory Showdown why aren't the specs in the NHRA guide? It was announced mid April, they've had 90 days to be in the guide. Had they worked with the teams they could have had the latest and greatest for the last 3 races.

Is there a long term plan or commitment to the racers for CJ support? Copo kicks out a car every year, Ford's will have been out of the game for 3 years by the time a 2018 comes out. Will it be another 3 years before another car is released? If there's no plan for continued success then why would racers invest?

What is Ford doing for the other classes beside SHowdown? I see a Focus RS went in the guide in the last year, seems an odd choice.
Why isn't the Boss 302 from 2012/2013 in the guide at 15% off the rated HP?
Why isn't the 2015-present Mustang GT in the guide? as far as I know they still sell parts for these cars so why would Ford not want to sell more parts?

WHere are the performance parts for street cars? I owned a 2015 Mustang and bought bolt ons from everyone else long before Ford had their kits out. I sent an email to Henry Ford III about it and he forwarded to the main guy at parts who told me the 2018 Mustang would have parts at launch. 2018 Mustang came out 8 months ago and Ford doesn't have a tune or cold air kit. I see there are some Ford distributors on this thread, I imagine you're very frustrated seeing the competition beat Ford to market with parts on their own car.

As a fan of the class and Ford it's frustrating to see their failure to compete over the last few seasons. WIll they fix their program, do just enough to pacify the detractors, or do nothing? If there is a public response from Ford to this thread I'd like to see it.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Chuck Watson was the quickest FSS car with an 8.075 in Norwalk, lost on a holeshot in Rd 2. Dodge has really stepped up, and Ford needs to do the same !

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Yup. the factory needs to step up!! Ford started this, don't leave your racers hang out to dry!!!!

I'm also waiting for Ford Performance to release the Power Pack for my 2018 Mustang GT!!!!!

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

That puts him a tenth and a half quicker than the next Ford (Tasca) which makes me wonder if there was a timing issue or something.

BTW- taking nothing away from the Watson team. They have consistently been the strongest Ford this season and they are the closest thing to a factory team. But that level of performance increase is odd. He was the slowest ET winner of round 1, and then is the fastest of the weekend in round 2.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

He had a strong Q2 run with the 2nd highest MPH at the 1/8 mile, so the performance is there.

The 60' was a tenth better in R2 than it was in R1, so I'm guessing the increase in 'performance' was more related to traction.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Chris Holbrook has his new John Holt built CJ @ the paint shop.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

You could be on to something. I've been told that the Ford 4-link in the 2016 is tricky compared to their older 3-link suspension that was supposedly more forgiving. I know there's more to getting down than the rear suspension but it sure seems to help.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Adding to my earlier questions...

some racers think NHRA will clamp down on the Showdown class and say "no more engine combos"

Wouldn't that make it more important to get a new 18 combo and the 5.4Lw/4.0L class legal ASAP just in case they close the book?

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Adding to my earlier questions...

some racers think NHRA will clamp down on the Showdown class and say "no more engine combos"

Wouldn't that make it more important to get a new 18 combo and the 5.4Lw/4.0L class legal ASAP just in case they close the book?






From what I hear they are going to put a freeze on engine combinations for 2019 for the Showdown class but Mike has been telling the higher ups in Ford and myself that the engine combination freeze is on now. The higher ups in Ford realize after their meeting with NHRA in Norwalk that the engine freeze will not take place till 2019.


You were right on the 2018 engine combinations. Should have been put on the books months ago. We are 60 cubic inches down from GM and Mopar. That's like running on 7 cylinders.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen.....

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Ford thinks that the 5.4 is yesterday's newspaper. They don't use it in production vehicles any longer. They are only interested in the 5.0 because that is what they are selling and making money on. Sad but true.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

If they go the route everyone better get a 4.0L huffer...

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Except the 2018 combination is 5.2....

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Ford may be down 60 cubic inches: but up 16 valves, up 3 camshafts and down 16 pushrods. Based on MPH, I think all 3 brands are pretty equal, traction and 60 foot times seem to be the issue.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

total valve aera for the DOHC 6.189 sq in, Hemi 6.018 sq in.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

That's what I've been waiting to hear! Anyone know anything about the CJ that Bo Butner is supposed to be getting?

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Cubic inches is torque, cylinder heads is top end hp.


Torque is your ET, top end HP is your MPH.
Along with 100,000.00 dollar transmissions

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Jim,
I hope you mean $10,000.00 transmissions.....
Mike A114

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

NO........

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

don't know what to say....
Mike A114

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

So if torque is ET those 5.0's must make a lot of it, considering how much quicker most of them are in 60' and 330' compared to the others.

I have a spreadsheet that is jammed with incremental times from a couple of races with all competitors "good" runs.....if I remember to do it I will post a pic of it when I get home tonight.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I think what he is trying to say is that the initial purchase price of a Liberty 5 speed with shifter is about $9200 PLUS all of the extra gear sets required to convert 1st-2nd-3rd-4th gear combinations for racing at Denver or at sea level plus all of the many small parts you also will need to service the transmission such as main shafts/shifter forks/sliders/whatever etc. ---SO the Total package is probably about $75,000-$100,000--- that does not include an extra transmission or 2 or 3 with a shifter --need another shifter without buying a transmission they run about $1100 each no extra parts included here either ---FED 387

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I must be missing something, getting from $9200 to 75-100K is quite a leap
Why not buy 7-8 extra trans & ratios complete, you get a lot of spare parts it seems, but what do I know, just a lowly SS racer

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Because they change ratios every run to optimize their performance ---lot of it depends where in the run they feel an improvement needs to be made--- they tweak these things to gain thousandths if not hundredths of a second--- makes a big difference between qualifying 1st or 12th - or for that fact even being in the show-- they probably have 10-15 ratios for each gear that they might use depending on what track there are racing at ---altitude(Denver) they might be down 300 horsepower so they put the biggest 1st gear in there they can get away with --sea level they put a different ratio in because the engine is making gobs of horsepower and they don't need that steep of a 1st gear

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Can some one explain to me what this thread is about. Who the heck is this guy mike. I thought the cobra jet stuff was run by a guy named wolfe or kershaw. I remember the program started back in 2008. After a few years there were cobra jets everywhere. Now it looks like the copo's are everywhere. What the hell happened to the ford support? Were is the 2017 or 2018 cobra jet. I remember years back you could walk the pits and see cobra jet banners in every ford pit. I was in Charlotte this year and did not see one ford cobra jet banner. It looks like there were about 4 cobra jets racing the showdown. I would think with all the cobra jets that were made you would have seen more. Why can't they use the 5.4 with a 4.0 blower, didn't ford make them for a few years. Man this is crazy, lost of good cars and they can't race them.

Where have all the cobra jets gone ?

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Randall,
If you buy 9, the tenth one is free.
Mike A114

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Nobody in Factory Stock Showdown uses a Liberty.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Brian Wolfe was promoted out of Ford Racing at the end of 2009. Jesse Kershaw was the drag racing manager but left last year I believe. Mike had been the circle track manager but left Ford and then came back to be drag racing manager when Jesse left. I would have found someone who races a Ford myself to manage drag racing. I wish that Jesse would return but there are probably politics that I do not know about that might prevent that.

Roland

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Ceramic bearings?

I've met Mike and Jesse. I think Jesse did a good job. Sorry to see him go.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Yes, same as the Shelby. 5.0 with an overbore.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Both the bore and stroke are increased in the 5.2L Voodoo Shelby engine.

Roland

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Increases that mean basically nothing. A 5.0 is already going to be at the stock bore of a 5.2, which is still less than the allowed overbore but there is simply no more room left. Stroke difference is only 0.011".

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I was just stating that the bore and stroke are increased in the 5.2L over the 5.0L. I don't care how much are how little it is. Sorry if it offended you.

Roland

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Thanks, that explains everything. Politics seem to get in the way of common sense. I'm wondering how they will get back the customers they have lost and pissed off. Ford has a terrible track record, look what they did to Glidden.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I know I'm getting off topic for the thread a bit but I want to share a few thoughts.

First - thank you for the kind words from many of you. Going to the track and working with racers was the best part of my job, it rejuvenated me. I'm grateful to anyone who appreciated my efforts.

Regarding the 5.0 v 5.2, I wanted to keep the CJ in the guide as a 5.0 for leverage in negotiations. The bore spacing on the Coyote based engines is such that a 5.0 with the NHRA max overbore is a 5.2, however starting with the 5.2 there isn't material left between the bores to go another .070 or .080" over. From my perspective the racers could have a 5.2l but petitioning NHRA for some other benefit sounded better when Ford "only" had a 5.0.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Well played.

There were only a couple of us in that situation that "get it".

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Rob,
Anybody can make a car with no torque run to the 330. Our 5.0L N/A Cobra Jet has been 1.18 60ft.'s and the motor makes no torque.
Leaving at 6500 with a lot of gear in it and a lot rpm.


Torque really comes into play on the gear transfer. That is why the more cubic inch cars can leave softer so they don't spin and they can make it up after the 330. In fact if you have a spread sheet there is only 3 to 4 Cobra Jets at every event and 10 to 11 Copo's at every event and a few Dodges. The Cobra Jets have spun off the line more than any other brand because they are trying to leave harder.


Hope this helps
Jim D'Amore

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Jesse,


It was great seeing you at Norwalk. Nice to see you still have passion for the Cobra Jet racers. One of the things I have always highly respected you for is when any Ford racer at any event that you were at that had a problem you never left till the problem was solved. I remember Calvert had problems with his engine at Englishtown, you stayed with him in my engine building till way after midnight. You have done the same for me going back all the way to 2007 and Don Fezell .

I can not say the same for the current drag race manager.


In my opinion there is no one left in Ford Performance that has passion or a true understanding for our sport. I have spent time with them recently in the hopes that they realize how much this means to us and Ford Motor Company.


Jim D'Amore

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I know you have a lot of respect for Jesse Kershaw and I know how hard you work for Ford Cobra Jet Owners and I respect Jim D'Amore for all his dedication and being one of the best tuners in the country.Keep up the hard fight!

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

"Been racing stock and S/S cars since 1973" And shafting Ford racers , the company I work for since 2016 !! Cheers !!!