Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

The last time I looked, the rulebook said that chillers had to stay in the competitors pit area.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

That is in the rules about chillers in pits only.

But if you showed up to back of staging lanes last year without one you felt foolish.

I'm hoping there is a little tolerance because some people are pitted right there at back of the lanes and some are much further away... and it is Indy.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

If the NHRA is going to ignore the rulebook for Indy, they should post it on their site in advance.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

I knew that was coming lol

Like I tried to say I think there have been some allowances concerning cooling at Indy for reasons I've already stated.

Believe me if you bring a fast car to Indy you have more of chance of proving it's legal than probably all the other events combined. It's not a conspiracy it's a judgment to try to be fair.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

My issue is that these "allowances" are not in the rules.


Which is why I feel that the rulebook should be sacred.


How can it be fair to allow racers to defy the rules at the expense of the guy in the other lane that is following the rules? What if the tech guys running the staging allowed a breach for one competitor but enforced a rule that they had misinterpreted for the other racer?

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Nice to see that some folks have a new found appreciation for fairness. Very refreshing.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Bruce, you are truly one of God's special people.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Oh no, not really. I'm just delighted to see that you do understand the concept of fairness after all.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Mr Gump
I respectfully think you are taking the chiller issue to far plus we are boh guilty of hi jacking this thread

I'm sorry I don't know who you are so I am not being condescending when I explain what actually happens at Indy.

If a racer is pitted a long way out he takes his chiller and his car to a friends pit spot who is closer and chills there. Then it starts clogging up as racers are on road in front of some other categories pit spot .

Nhra does not have the manpower or
I'm sure the inclination to verify whether racers are actually in there spot or not so it has evolved into people chilling in front of all the spots from back of staging lanes.

My post was that in the spirit of speeding things up( the original theme of this thread)
we should allow chilling in the staging lanes.

It really doesn't matter to me that much. I'll still chill in my auxiliary pit spot.

Great discussion. I'll give you the last word, I'm out.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Hi,

I respectfully disagree. I have had a personal experience with this, but will add no more on open forum as you can't fix the past. I feel strongly that the rules should apply to all. My wife is pushing me hard to bring a chiller to the end of the lanes at Indy. My answer is always the same. Just because a lot of guys are doing it doesn't change the rules. Maybe I will ask the NHRA for clarification.

Gump is a nickname that I got while racing my Firebird in the nineties. My real name is Daren Poole-Adams. I am an avid fan of the new cars. I also pushed very hard for the COPO to get built. I have supported the program from day one and will continue to do so as long as I am having fun.

It is nothing new that Bruce hates the new cars. My stance has always been that they fit the rules as written.

People who have driven my COPO Camaros in NHRA competition over the last few years are Brenda Grubbs, Rodger Johnson, Robin Lawrence, AJ Currie, Emily Volkman, Larry Morgan, Chip Johnson, Steve Foley, and Jeff Warren.

Peace,

Daren

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Daren was the first guy on this forum to offer me help. Definitely one of the good ones.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Mr Gump,

Indy is a special deal. 180 cars trying to qualify for the first 128.
5 days.
Increased entry fee
Twice the entries.
Many S/SS racers are pitted past the sand traps.
It is now a flat out deal, with no AHFS in place.
Sounds like a good idea to me, to allow chillers in the lanes in wagons or hand trucks..No golf carts.

Noland has got a point here. Just find the guy who allowed the COPOs , Drag Paks , and CJ's to run Stock after 60 years of tradition, and have him change just one more rule for Indy only.
What's the problem?

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Quote from one of the Greatest Cheetahs ever known:
Son ICE IS FOR BEER. ... That chiller is useless if you Have a fast car
Jim Marshall..".... Now me being SOFT my car needs all it can get.
Rules is rules By the way ever see Jim Boudreau. John Shaul. Or Jim Marshall using a chiller?

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

OK. So, which rule did they change when the 2008 Cobra Jet was introduced? I honestly can't remember which new rule was passed to get them into the guide.

I have no problem with chillers in the staging lanes. Just put it in writing.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

I don't have any old rule books, but it was something about 500 cars and showroom available. Plenty of 60's FX and small quantity combos were not allowed in Stock.
Oh, and I guess it was only 48 years or so until this new "Stock" was created out of whole cloth. That guy is probably Senior VP by now.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Nope. That ship sailed in the nineties. Again, what was specifically changed in the rules that allowed the 2008 Cobra Jet?

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Mark, I just checked the 2018 rule book and it still says the same thing. Not trying to put gas on a fire, but we all know that there are some cars out there without VIN numbers. I love Stock, but it isn't what it used to be. I had a stocker for awhile in the 70's and it was way different then.

Still very cool for me to watch and help with stockers and super/stockers. I am headed to Pacific Raceway to watch just those kind of cars today.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Don't play dumb!! You know very well they were brought in under the Special Assembly Run section and allowed to run in Stock. The problem is that they were all brought in with bogus weights and HP numbers. And you were very much aware of that as well. This created a supreme advantage for those of you who were chomping at the bit to take an unfair advantage of their fellow racers. I'll be glad to continue this debate if you want to. The lies have been told and the performance numbers are in the books. And the travesty continues to this day. At the time, it was easy for you to say its in the guide so its ok for me to beat the hell out of fellow competitors with my bogus combination. But we aren't forgetting, even though most of those responsible for this garbage are no longer involved in racing.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Nobody playing dumb here. My point is the same as it has always been. The rules did not change to allow these cars that you hate so much into the guide. All of those things that were changed to suit guys like you over the years in the name of safety and reliability opened that door.

I will remind you that Chevrolet didn't build any third generation Corvettes with solid rear ends. Of course you know that. Just like I know that I am wasting my time replying to your BS.

There is nothing bogus about the new combinations. My COPO is no more cutting edge than a 1969 COPO was in it's day.

As far as the horse power goes, it is no different today than it has ever been. No manufacturer wants their new combinations on the bottom of the ladder. It's funny that we never see you crying over some "Dime Rocket" combination that makes a joke out of qualifying. By your logic, that guy is pure evil.

It also amazes me that you are such a big man on the key board. You weren't nearly so big with your mouth when I came over to see you at Gainesville a few years ago. I, for one, have never been out to get you or any other guy driving an old car. I am however getting tired of your troll like ways.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

I love the original intent of this post - as a FAN, it is really frustrating to see the classes all mixed up. It can't be THAT hard to run them from A-Z or vice versa. Doesn't NHRA send texts now to tell you when to be in the lanes? Get a text, and if you aren't there in 15 minutes, they run without you. If a Super Comp dragster got in my way from running a round of the Hemi Challenge, my Cuda or Dart would run their little rail over!

As for the whole chiller thing - isn't pitting at Indy decided by who you are or how much $$ your sponsor gives to NHRA to some extent? Joe Big Bucks Racer gets to park 100 yards from the lanes while Joe Little Guy Racer has to park in the back 40, 1/2 mile away through the Super Comp dragsters, Fans, Golf Carts, Harleys cruising the pits, etc. I personally don't have a problem with a "portable pit" as long as it's done out of the way of the lanes.

Whatever happens, I can't wait to get to Indy again!!

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Mr.Bailey brings up a great point here. One , I feel should be addressed through the SRC.

Now, I promise this will be the last post here, from me, about the Ff f fords.

I was asked a question here, and I had to research it through an unimpeachable source.
I believe this is what Mr.Gump was fishing for:

In 1997 , a new clause was added to the rule book, to allow special run, small batches of factory promotional toys to be allowed to run in Stock. Shortly thereafter, the 1993 Cobra R was entered into the class guide. I think I know who may have asked for it but it is irrelevant here.
The Cobra R combo was built in house, using various hi-po parts and deletions, @ 107 units there of. It had a VIN, was emissions legal, and was delivered through Ford dealers. Yes, you had to have a drag racing associated I.D. to purchase one.

Ff f forward to 2008, 50th anniversary of the original Cobra Jets. Fifty units were completed by Gapp and Roush. Unavailable to the public engine combo, roll cage, safety bell housing, spool and axles, etc. No VIN, not sold to the public through dealers, etc. You know the drill.
Mopar then followed suit, and then GM with the COPO's. We'll never know who's palm was crossed with what, today, but I believe this was the beginning of the non-stock Stockers. It's a real stretch to try to bring it back to 1997, in my opinion.

I'd suggest , for those who want to comment further on the FX cars, start a new thread or bring back an old one from the archives.
Over...

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Actually, late in 1996 we wrote a letter to NHRA to allow us to run a 95 Cobra R in Stock, which they made 250 units. They allowed it and changed the rule in 1997.




Bret Velde
2003 SS/LA

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Mark,

I know when and what changed. My point was that no rule change was needed to add the factory cars. The racers themselves pushed for everything that opened the door.

Way back when Dale's site was the place to be I voiced my objections to many of those changes and received the same kind of replies that I have gotten on here.

Since I purchased my first COPO we have received the gift of roller rockers, any valve spring, and solid lifters. If asked, I would have said no to all three. But, I wasn't asked. All that does is drive up costs.

If you want to talk bogus I have a 1988 Cutlass that never had a VIN. It started at 138 HP and is now at 207 HP!!

Brett,

Is that the car that Beaver had for a while?

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

I think you're putting the cart before the horse here. I don't know of any people who were racing in stock in 2008 , that asked for factory sponsored, special built 100K Stockers. In fact ,those cars might be part of the reason that everybody got roller rockers, eventually.
Yes, I know about the no VIN cars. I drove a couple of them. They were pilot cars off the front of the line that were used for test purposes. I mentioned that only for comparison's sake..Cobra R vs. 2008 CJ's, etc.
Enough with this hijack, okay?

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

No, we raced it for a couple years and sold it to one of our employees and he still has the car today





Bret Velde
2003 SS/LA

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Now look at you. I'm away for three days and you are all bad a**!

Lets start with the big mouth part first. You didn't come over to me at Gainesville. We were in the lanes getting ready to run class and we had a candid conversation about the way we felt about these cars with no vitriol from either one of us. You certainly didn't have your little chest all pumped out at the time and I'm surprised to read your creative account of our discussion. As I remember our race didn't go so well for you.

The solid rear ends were allowed in Corvettes because as an axle ripped through the fiberglass floor or a Corvette while racing and destroyed a racers arm. So, yes safety is important.

I like the dime rockets, they were production cars and don't represent institutional cheating by the OEM's.

On the other hand you represent all that is bad about this sport. Buying your way in with a bogus car and trying to blow smoke about it when we all know the truth. The rules do not have to change when a system is corrupted by the OEM's.

I'll be at Indy. Maybe we can visit in the lanes again.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

Not at all.


I remember it exactly the way you do. I really wasn't expecting it to be that easy going as you had been giving me the same attitude on here then as you are now. As far as the race, it is still one of my favorite runs ever. I got great photos!


I am not arguing with that. But, it opened the door for what came later on the newer Corvettes and GTOs, which opened the door for what has been allowed for the 2008 up cars.


I like them too. I don't agree with the last part. Jesse posted a letter from NHRA to him (on Facebook) that was written in 2008. It doesn't show any of the narrative that you have been pushing.


You are welcome to your opinion. For the record, I was racing Stock long before the new cars. Also, when you beat me at Gainesville, pretty much everything in the car was home grown.


Free country.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

….Wow … I'll be at Indy too. As a spectator. I was just hoping to see the classes, run as classes, during class eliminations.... I'm getting old, just trying to make things less complicated...…. Maybe next year, ( if I can get doctor clearance ), I can be part of this madness... Then again, not sure I want too.

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

So one of the manufacturers greased one (or all) of the NHRA board members. So what, it's not like it hasn't happened before. Let us get back to the subject of Class at Indy!

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

ill do my best if the COMET shows up on time ill try to find the R/SA guys and follow them out ...

figure T/SA gremlin guy is bringing his dragpak instead :)

seeya thursday guys > im sure another HP gifted FFFord is gonna beat me again, but hey why should i complain as this thread shows us NHRA dont care about rules or fairness just that $360 the181 of us ponied up (thats $65,160 if you are counting, i am) !!!

Re: Indy Class ...Enhanced !
 

In the last few years there were not that many FS cars around now that there are about 6-7 years worth I would like to see them all put into a separate catorgory where they run each other in the same way they do in stock eliminator except the racing would be closer and there would be a lot more heads up racing. That would make everyone happy all the guys who complain about running the FS cars is unfair why I could never figure out and it would make all the new cars guys happy because they would not be spotting up to 9 seconds and also have a lot of heads up runs. What is wrong with that except NHRA won’t like it. And In that separate catorgory they could allow a 10.5 tire to make it a bit safer for 8 second cars running over 160 mph. That would stop all the complaining and make both sides happy.