Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

I probably mentioned this before. Many years ago when I raced in Englishtown. You would walk through the pits and one favorite of mine was the tender fender SuperStockers. They would be lined up in the pits it seemed for ever. Anywhere from Steve Bagwell's SS/BS to many SS/FA. The cars were all to see. Now if the cars are out they are packed in between two giant white trailer. Nice rear bumper view if any. Pretty sure there aren't any sportsman parades before the race.
I'm not much of a street hotrodder these days. Why should I. The best car show of the nicest cars are racing at NHRA events. Not sure many local folks hear or see that.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

says you who wasn't there and who also doesn't know how much an entry is for a national event.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

If I remember correctly Clear Channel Entertainment was to buy the pro division only of the NHRA but it was voted down by the Clear Channel stockholders.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Random observations-

As I remember history, Compton and those folks were looking to sell the Pro classes off to Bruton, a group of NHRA pro racers, or whomever, and keep the sportsman side for itself. Maybe they saw the decline coming and wanted to cash out. Who knows what would have happened had that occurred.

NHRA wants and needs the Sportsman's money; membership, license, cert, entry, contingency sponsors, advertisers, divisional support, etc. and not have to work or spend anymore than they need to keep it coming in. I suppose they may be afraid a national event will seem to be less of an event without all of those cars. They need something going on between pro sessions and rounds. Shooting t-shirts into the stands gets old.

NHRA is all about TV because big sponsors are all about TV. And the TV stars are who the casual fans pay to come see. Even Pro Stock is treated like an afterthought.

Sportsman classes are populated by an aging group and are becoming less relevant to younger people. We are our own biggest fans. People I talk to who don't follow it, or the NHRA in general, are no more concerned or knowledgeable of classes, indexes, rules, what all those letters mean, etc., than they are about what throttle stop racing is. But they can tell you about turbos, nitrous, X275, Ultra and RVW.

The alternative to the Pro circus now is the no prep, boosted, radial, small tire, heads up, Lights Out/No Mercy, outlaw door car scene. I'm surprised NHRA hasn't tried to become more of a player after seeing the popularity and the amount of money involved.

High dollar bracket racing is the new domain of the traveling non-heads up Pro-Sportsman with large fields, sponsors who's customers are the racers and very little walk in spectator support.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Been like that forever. First round loser Friday morning and your weekend is over.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Was there not a "Classracer "event held a few years ago ? where was it contested and might there ever be another one ?

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

I’m pretty sure you are referring to: “Class Nationals”.."
Michael Beard put that race together.
It was held in Columbus, Ohio.
Not sure if their would be another one.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

A few years ago, we went to PRI. There were a number of the Street Outlaw guys there walking around as well. People were following them around, stopping them for photos, standing in line to meet them wherever they stopped to shoot the breeze with someone. I had to ask a buddy who they were and why they were such celebrities.

Later in the weekend while walking, we saw the Top Fuel World Champion car in a booth, stopped to look at it a second and noticed the Top Fuel World Champion sitting there at a table with hero cards. No one talking to him, no line to meet him, just sitting there watching people walk past. That was an enlightening moment.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Those of us that are racers clearly don't do this for the $, hero cards, autographs, no mind any kind of self serving celebrity. WE do this for the competition in an attempt to be the best for a day, weekend, season.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

I'm sorry but I don't understand your reply.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

seems you don't understand much

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

That's very true. I just thought the contrast in the attention paid to the SO "stars" vs. the Top Fuel WC was interesting, especially since this was an event for trade/racers only, not star gazing fans.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

I have competed at many National events and don't remember being there for only one day. It appears it has changed and I have empathy for those who paid $400.00(?) for just one day at the Winternationals.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

those that idolize these guys are fans of the circus, fans of a reality tv show not racers and never will be. Grown men asking for autographs says it all.:rolleyes:

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

1320,
Your divisive remarks on this forum are uncalled for and unappreciated. What year were you enshrined in the drag racing Hall of Fame?

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

what part of the truth and the facts don't you like frank?

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Billy,
I sincerely apologize for hijacking this thread. I'm done with it.
Frank

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Lighten up frank

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Sixty years ago it wasn't about the benjamins. To many working at the divisional events it still isn't. I don't think we do a very good job promoting ourselves.
Pete

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

I was reading a couple post back, two time-shots and then back at first round at like 8:00. It is what it is. Any big race you are going to be waiting for hours to run. Big $$$ Bracket racing, win 1st round at 8am might not get back out until 6pm, and run all night until a winner is crowned. A national is the same thing, I would hate to run a nation without the crowd. Pulling up in the semis at a national, with the stands packed, on a sunday afternoon, gave me a whole different feeling.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

^^ this is a good example of what exposure does for a "sport". Those shows are popular ( and the people on the shows) because of constant exposure to the viewing public.
People that don't race are tuning in to watch these episodes. I hear it all the time from non drag racing people at work.

The Discovery channel has many scheduled hours of the Street Outlaws and No Prep Kings episodes as well as the offspring shows from that ( Memphis Outlaws, etc.)

How many hours of TV time do NHRA classes ( pro or sportsman) get ? Very few.
Plus not many people are up watching FS1 @ 11:00 pm or 2 am

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

I was there. Not enough racers supported it so there will not be another one. The “I only race nhra events” racers won’t show up to a race like that. Their “too” good for it. Michael put a ton of work into it. I put together the SS/K stick shootout. Raised 7700.00 cash, product, certificates. It could of been a great deal but........

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Good thread , Billy Boy

I don't know where to jump in ,at this point.

Just some random points:

I thought NHRA was supposed to help out with the local radio spots as part of their divisional scam...I mean package? I don't think promoting Alky cars works with the fuel zombies anyway. Better off showing wheelstanding S/SS cars on local TV ads.

.90 cars..What can I say ? They had a chance to fix their non- spectator friendly act ,about ten years ago . Most of them voted NO ..Much easier to adjust the stops.
Probably end up costing them in the long run, down the road.

If anyone figures out how to separate out the Sportsman car..make sure you bring along the FS/XX or FX or whatever they're called , new cars. The clown show doesn't need them anyway. The annual fuel fume breathers don't watch Pro Stock now, as it is .
Come to think about it, even a 2 out 3 , old style match race between 2 of the best in the division, might bring in some spectators, if promoted correctly.

Ed Carpenter, Sadly, right on the money. No Wallys , no support. No NHRA? Quitting time for many, I believe. Might start a thread on that subject, soon.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

That must explain why at divisional events the stands, which were packed for Stock and Super Stock, suddenly empty when us .90 guys roll into the water. :rolleyes:

I generally don't pay any attention to the Pro circus, because it is mostly a bunch of rich people out blowing money for fun and I don't care who wins.

We Sportsman racers are about the same, but most of us are a little less rich than the Pro guys. Why should people pay money to come watch us play? Especially for what many tracks charge at the gate for a divisional event.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Good point, TL
But let's say we're putting together a 15 second local TV ad for a Divisional . Who are you going to show leaving the line , side by side, S/S or S/ST .. I know my answer...

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

I have a problem with any electronics that are utilized in .90 racing--- it should be a function of the driver to "be able to adjust the vehicle " to run the numbers--- no thousand dollars ET control units should be allowed. And we all know that if that came into play most racers would either stop racing or find a place to race that accepts them. NO BOX racing !!!! FED 387

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

I don't disagree with your point at all. SS is cool! Maybe a front-drive Stocker that the public can relate to would be better yet.

What I don't understand is the feeling I see often on this board in which NHRA is missing this grand opportunity to feature the true stars of the sport. We're just a bunch of people with cool stuff that like to piss our money away. Why would we expect that people want to pay money to watch any of it?

There is a relatively small percentage of people that are really into cars, and some even do show up to the races. Is the general public really missing out on the best-kept secret in entertainment in sportsman drag racing?

I also see a lot of lip service given to wishing for viable alternatives to NHRA, but it has been proven time and again that racers will not show up in meaningful numbers for any amount of cash or any other organization's points.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

quoted for the truth.


No one cares about your problem, least of which the racers competing in the .90 classes and the NHRA

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Every weekend, thousands and thousands of people from old Racers to Carguys to admirers of different forms of art to Grandma and Grandpa with the Grandkids go out to hundreds and hundreds of local Car Shows and Cruises to look at cars just standing still. Any of these groups of people could easily be entertained at a Divisional Event! Why don't they come? Usually because they don't know that they exist.
Yes, they are missing out on the "best-kept secret in entertainment" if they are into Car Shows! IMHO, probably one of the best darned Car Shows you could pay to see. And the cars owners are using them for the reason that they were built! Not to mention they can tell you every nut and bolt in it.

Oh, I've got some pretty cool stuff and I don't like pissing away my money.
Yac, are you pissing away your money again?

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

That's a good post Billy and it sure makes one wonder why.

No doubt some Stockers and SS'ers are show cars that do big wheelies and run way faster today than ever thanks to all the allowable modifcations.

And anyone who likes cars you'd think would like to look closely at every kind of car in the pits. Some are so nice I'd be afraid to race it !!

I think its true that Sportsman cars across the spectrum offer something for everyone and are just not promoted enough.

I never am at a race and not watching the other categories.....and looking at cars.....

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

I thought Rich had a great comment and observation that was well said. The most expensive cars I have owned are gone now but in my senior years I do still own a legal car of little value. My thought is with the apparent fatalism we are seeing, when I see a "Big Buck" stock or superstock car for sale at a very big price, how fast are the value of those cars going away as the sport weakens ??? Are Comp cars harder to sale now more than ever ??? Just curious are car values dropping ????

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

My take is the track owners which are supposed to be the promoter have gotten lazy over the years and they figure they can make a living off of just a meager amount of spectators and the gate fees that the racers pay to play. Most tracks have gone to the test and tune format and don't actually have racing for purse money on a regular basis. the test and tune guys pay to get in the gate to make a few runs then load up and go home. the track does not pay any purse money. The younger generation seem to like to go to the track and run their cars up and down the track but not actually race. Most like power adders. They just want to see how fast they can run but don't actually compete.

Most of us Sportsman racers do not race for the lure of winning money. We race for the competition aspect and the money is a bonus if we happen to have a good day and win or make it to the late rounds. I have never won enough money to pay for racing. I do it because I enjoy it. It is nice to wing some cash once in a while to help offset the cost. With better promotion by the sanctioning body and the track owners everyone could make out better. Purse money has not changed in years and contingency money is all but gone.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Not everyone is into sports but, if you are, think about why you watch sports on TV or attend games whether they are professional, youth, whatever. Personally, there are two things that will drive my interest:

1. I care about the outcome. Either it is my local team playing, or my child or someone I know is involved.

2. I am watching something happen at a very high level.

Most of the people at a racetrack likely belong to group #1. They are family, crew, or friends of a racer.

#2 is where our sport loses it. There are a ton of extremely talented people spinning wrenches and/or behind the wheel, but there is no way for a spectator to know that. 90+% of the passes look exactly the same. Wheelies are cool, but how many times is that exciting while the car disappears into the distance. The magic is at the finish line, but there are no grandstands there, you usually can't read the scoreboards, and Joe Carguy doesn't understand what is going on there anyway. We on this board love it because we understand it and can see the skill.

I know people will say Joe Carguy just needs to be educated on what he is missing, but if you need to convince people why it is so great, you've lost their attention already.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Well Rusty, the way I look at "Big Buck" Stock and SS cars, there's a whole lot of things that people can do with their money. If they can afford to play then good for them. If they can't then they shouldn't be playing. There are very few "toys" that are going to make you money.
Just look at how many people "play" with things like boats and horses. Now there's a couple of ways to lose money.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

#3 people liked to be entertained.

#4 people like to talk with and be around other people with whom they have common interests.

If "Joe Carguy" is a carguy, he doesn't need to be educated. He needs to be informed as to where and when he can look at and talk about cars.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

One big problem we have is we got to complicated....

Drag Racing was supposed to be 2 cars line up and race to the end.
Winner crosses the finish line first.

Todays racing is anything but....

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

#4 is a valid point to add to the list.

You can do better than #3. We're talking about what would drive a person to THIS form of entertainment rather than some other form of entertainment.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Hey, apply #4 to #3. People who like flowers go to flower shows. People who like boats.........

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

People who like cars... go to car shows? :D

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Yup!