Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

We had one too.
Had to have it calibrated once a year and the factory tech guy was always concerned . about the floor being level because we had BIG presses close by that shook the floor all day long. If they try to do it in a trailer I'd be real concerned.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

From I have been told NHRA has been using the tool to check Top Fuel and Funny Car parts that have been submitted to see that they match the parts on file at NHRA for some time. My info comes from a very reliable source.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

OK - So it's a Thursday night and I'm bored - so I may as well jump in the water and see if I'm bitten by some computer 'sharks' . As Ken said earlier we really don't know what this digitizing will bring - sadness ? Expense ? Level the playing field ? fights with officials ? low car counts ? And God knows what else but no one has spoke about what good could come out of the so called 'New Sheriff' and associates that are coming to the big Indy teardown.Most of us have 'bitched and moaned' about the lack of policing and teardowns in recent years and now that 'they' are willing to do something about it many don't like it - can't have it both ways boys and girls .At least it's a start - give 'em a chance …….

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Well said Jack !

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

I’m still hung up on
Bring tools and parts to do a tear down,
Really! Was this an option?
We went from open trailer , pick up trucks with gaskets stacked behind seats to
70 plus foot rigs and dual deckers but u don’t have a gasket set or tools to tear it down?!?!
And aren’t the parts on the car supposed to go back on the car where they came from?
Indy should be fun!

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

From a reliable source, about a month ago someone told NHRA that Factory Stock Showdown engine builders were raising combustion chambers so it seems as right now that is the direction they are going, to the best of knowledge there has been nothing done with OEM Heads.

Teardowns are now a priority by direction from the new sheriff

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Well said Scott. My dad and I have never went to an event without the tools and parts to put it back together in the event our ticket(s) are punched.

For about 5 or 6 years it seemed my dad would get tore down at every event Gracia would be at. It got to be a real pain in the ***** and wallet toward the end. No MLS gaskets back in those days. Morale of the story, come prepared ALWAYS because not having the equipment or parts isn't a valid excuse to skip being tore down.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

I am guessing there are some that buy their engines from an engine builder and have someone assemble the engine and transmission in the car then go racing. They probably have no idea what gaskets to bring with them if they did not get a set from the engine builder. Some may not have the knowledge or the physical ability to take the engine apart and put it back together and race the next day. I don't haul an engine hoist or engine stand with me to the race track but I have plenty of tools and gaskets to take a head off.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Soon to be released by NHRA the following statement.....This "Technical Enhancement" will raise the price of a entry by...…..

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

The cylinder head garbage has been going on a LONG time. It started back before the mid 1980's. I know of several who did this for a fact and still do. I could name names but that would start a war so I won't. NHRA expanded on it by allowing the any duration and over lap rule along with any valve spring pressures. You might as well be running Super Stock and eliminate the stocker classes all together !

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

LOL..........You nailed it !

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

The more I think about this the more questions I have. I was talking to my engine builder and he had a good point. We have all the tools that NHRA uses to check our engines. Now there is a new tool that my engine builder does not have. How can we make sure we are in compliance if we do not have the same tool. So now we have to get the same tool and training to make sure our heads are correct. How many engine shops are going to spend $60,000 plus for this new equipment. And from what I have been reading this equipment is not like a cc check, or checking with bore gauge and dial caliper. Its not as easy as going through easy pass, either your green to go or red stop, the person has to be highly trained with the right equipment. I know some will say, if you have a stock head you have nothing to worry about, but that's bs. Core shift and old casting molds are a reality, and heads can look different from casting run to casting run.

My last questions is where and who do we send our heads to make sure we are in compliance before we go racing to make sure there are no issues I would think we need to send both heads to not have any issues.

There has been no announcement if this is supposed to happened, but the info I have been receiving seems like its a good possibility it will. I wish NHRA would confirm or deny this. I know its not something NHRA does, getting involved with social media, but it would ease a lot of racers heading to Indy if they new what to expect.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

I don't see how NHRA could possibly have enough data to apply this to regular stockers. They may start collecting data from cars going thru teardown to start to build a database though.

Now FS cars are a different story, and I'm guessing that this is more aimed at those cars.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

I think you missed my point. If your goal is to race for Class Trophies, then by all means ... However, some may have a broader view of Stock Eliminator. BTW, I checked the first (of many) National Record certificates on my wall and its dated May, 1980. I played the "best-of-breed" game for many years, but would much rather go deep into the rounds of Sunday eliminations.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

I'm going to address your issues in reverse order.
Why would NHRA confirm or deny any of the speculation referenced here? Let the rumor mill take care of the problem, racers will once again be prepared to pass tech whenever wherever. There was a time you didn't go to Indy with any question that you could pass tech. They might find something you overlooked, but you better have had some pretty good sleight of hand if you went with bogus stuff.


Who do you send your heads to? Who will have the data files NHRA uses?


Do the engine builders need the same equipment as NHRA? If, and it's a big IF all of this speculation actually applies to "classic" stockers (old stuff)....I'm not sure it does. But if an engine builder that builds older combinations with old castings isn't really cheating the heads....I'm talking grinding and spray welding....he doesn't need the equipment. He won't have access to the data anyway.
My opinion.....You know what's real BS? Thinking that core shift or old core boxes will cause a head to scan as illegal. If the head was that bad would it even run well enough to need to be torn down? Would it even cc correctly (small enough)? Wouldn't the engine builder have disqualified the casting before it ever got that far?


Question for those out there, are there still heads around with altered casting numbers? It happened in the past.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

I don't have to tell you, this cylinder head garbage has been going on since Super Stockers had unported heads. Except for the SS/C AMX's, talk about a can of worms! That's why we now have Super Stockers with these fragile, welded, leaking, piles of iron.....art projects.

I can't name names either, but I have worked on parts for stockers that show me iron intake manifolds that are pounds lighter than OEM parts.

Head cheating is so rampant in some circle track arenas that I once had a "renowned" tech man want to throw out a set of Dart Iron heads because they "looked too good, they must be acid dipped" (I went through that acid dipping phase in the 80's not going there again). Runner volumes were then found to be smaller than spec, so he then wanted to throw the car out because the heads were TOO legal.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Great Post !
I remember an intake manifold for a Ford CJ 428 that weighed 10 lbs less than a real stock one......And I remember an intake manifold with an altered casting number just a few years ago.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Maybe, not a problem. However, the choice between record setting and going rounds is a false choice. It is true that some have a priority of one over the other. You can choose both. I am not saying it always works out. I am surprised that you would think that the solution you pose would be cheaper given your experience. It might be cheaper for a second or two before it becomes super modified.

There is no easy answer, but if NHRA does communicate better and follow up, we would see less cars “forgetting” which carb they happened to have on a car or competing in a performance class with a bracket motor.

We can’t go back in time as some would prefer, but we can at least improve the oversight and customer support from that standpoint. I am encouraged there seems to be some improvement in that area as of late.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. My rules suggestion was somewhat tongue in cheek, but there has to be a better way to control the explicit "cheating" and darkroom voodoo that's going on. Costs aside, perhaps it just needs to be out in the open.



As a commercial organization, NHRA are always looking to reduce costs and streamline their program. Sure, the Stock and SS entries pay heavy entry fees, but it's dwarfed by the corporate sponsorship, crowd entry, concessions, and TV rights. Thus, any cry from us for better enforcement at National meets is going to be lost.


Perhaps a non-partisan policing body backed by - and made of - ex class racers. NHRA can set the rules - the "body" enforces them. Lots of motorsport bodies have driver associations that enforce regulations and administer sanctions. At least you'd have some genuinely interested people involved.


But I might be getting off topic and I'm sure this ground has been covered before. Good luck to those going to Indy - I wish I was.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

What a crock - simple decision - skip INDY if you are worried.

Ron

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

The particle size of the parting sand in a cast head has a direct relationship as to how smooth or rough the surface is.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

And hope the NHRA catches the cheaters at another race !

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

It will catch up with them and will get caught eventgly

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Great thread Ken! With that being said, I think that I'll keep my comments to myself for the time being.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

I can’t help but notice that the same people cry about no tech no tear downs now we have a sheriff with intelligence and balls are changing thier tune ... I’m not skeered... I have two cars one is F$&@ing fast and NHRA is welcome (I know they don’t need an invite) to digital scan my heads anytime anywhere. I do request that I’m allowed a cold beer or several during the session (will offer to tech guys also I bring enough for friends) .... anyone wanna copy paste this to YOUR name 😳😳😳

Captain

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

461x ?

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

If you take the time to read this statement from NHRA it basically says that make sure and be prepared to be taken apart. Have tools ,gaskets and all things required to be inspected in a standard teardown. I think this thread went way off base IMO. I suggest if you do get selected for teardown you show up at the assigned time with all the seals that the tech people apply. If you do this there should be no problem. Now that I think about it seems to me that it has been quite a while since someone was DQ'd at Indy. during a teardown.

http://www.nhraracer.com/content/gen...601&zoneid=132

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

New checking equipment and the threat of teardown isn't going to be effective unless they fix the bogus TI forms and specs. The Tech Dept personnel can't do their job if they don't have correct paperwork, right Mike Fuller?

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

I can’t help but notice that the same people cry about no tech no tear downs now we have a sheriff with intelligence and balls are changing thier tune ... I’m not skeered... I have two cars one is F$&@ing fast and NHRA is welcome (I know they don’t need an invite) to digital scan my heads anytime anywhere. I do request that I’m allowed a cold beer or several during the session (will offer to tech guys also I bring enough for friends) .... anyone wanna copy paste this to YOUR name 😳😳😳

Captain i will be at indy and i am ready to and i have a fs car to and it is somewhat FAST bill dyer

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

OMG !! This is Great !! What about core shift ?? And making people follow the rules so close to Indy ?? HaHa how dare they !! i paid a ton of money for a auto parts store machine shop port job !! N my money is better than the streets car guys !! N my engine builder is a sheer genius for exploiting the inept NHRA tech department !! MY 4000.00$ dollar pocket port , guides , mill and valve job is worth every proud penny as i tell the next sucker he needs it !!

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

I would highly suggest that any class racer have stuff to tear down with at any nhra event you go to. You never know when your number might come up, even middle of the pack runners

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

What if you have a severely under rated combo that would be totaled for the price of gaskets n the time to look at it ??

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

I dont know of a class car that could be totaled for the price of a few gaskets!!

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Captain Jack, in case nobody told you, Wesley and I have the bleachers and concession at Indy during Tech. Tickets are $12 per session. Beer is about the price at a Saints game in the Superdome. Discounts are available for volume drinkers and close friends. Reserve seats available.

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Damn Jeff I’ll need to bring extra $2-300 for beer at those rates 😎👍

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Jeff,
What is the price for the view over Wesley's shoulder?
Should be Priceless, aye?

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Adger, Warren is working on a live Go-Pro feed for the big screen in the Top Eliminator Club, and maybe a big screen for the viewing stands. Roomer has it that it will be a body cam that will be mounted to a Hans Device on some but not all Tech inspectors. The Go-Pro system will be able to have stop action, slow motion, close ups, and fast forward. Jeff is working on all the finer details....at least that is what I have been told!

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Should be FB live feed as each competitor is told they have a ticket to barn ... $100,000 funniest home video moment 😳😳😂

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Warren should live stream from the turn off to the scales! LOL

Re: Indy Teardown Warning
 

Maybe more of us newbies will be enthusiastic to come out and play? I have a STOCK set of heads they can scan!