Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

That would fix this problem very quickly.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

the AHFS has flaws. It does not consider the person who puts a combo together and runs it , how ever it runs. Then you have the person that puts the same combo together and works on it all the time because he does not want to get beat heads up. So for the person who works his butt off his reward is NHRA slowing him down. Yes there are under factored cars, What we need is someone with common sense to know when one is under factored or not.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

No, it wouldn't, unless the AHFS is/was in affect for ALL races. The #1 Qualifier at Indy in 2018 went 2.01 under and has NEVER been factored. The same car just (JUST) qualified #1 at Earlville.
Now, I'm not faulting the man that built it, IMHO, he's one of the smartest men in this sport. But I will fault the system.
NHRA needs to have people in place that understand engines and combos. Until they do, it's all just a joke and a "buddy's club".

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

What we need is someone who knows when a combo has been "manipulated/ enhanced" and has the balls to toss it.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Most can manipulate the AHFS. No one wants HP but some combos are quite under factored. Lower the average to .80 to .75. That would be the easiest ways to add HP to more combos without changing the AHFS drastically.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Lowering the indexes is what Billy calls liberalism. Do you think the guys who are smart enough to stay out of trouble with the current system will all of a sudden become a bunch of dumb azzes? No they won't and the slow guys will still get beat. The fact is this is an ultra competitive sport and a racer can pick a good combination, work hard and spend money to go fast or you can be slow. Either way you'll have fun.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Re-read my post Bruce.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Do we believe that everyone let it fly at Indy, or did some racers still hold back?

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Hi masshole here yes I did screw up on a red light got out of it after a 1000 ft really didn’t think i was going that fast I talked to James Monday about it and now he just proceeds to drag my name through the mud all over the internet . we haven’t even got any hp yet I guess if it makes him feel better everybody deals with things differently I can honestly say I would never write a thread like this if Mr Perrone did the same thing I may call him but not call him an a-hole or masshole or what ever yes it does suck that some of us have to slow our cars down after we spend all this time and money making them go fast hopefully NHRA will come up with a better solution. As far as my car yes 69 -72 Novas although same body have some differences. I guess James would be the one to know if my taillights are different

Thanks (A-hole or Masshole).

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

How sad we continue to argue
We are the consumer here
We continue to race under foolish rules and then fight with each other over those rules
The factoring system doesn't work and has never worked
When we work together it will work better when we allow our selves to be divided we will never get what we want or deserve.....
When we give them money it seems to me we should get what we want
Am i missing something
On another note Billy Harper is a fine gentleman and he should get to play fully as he sees fit
He worked hard and spent the money....

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Billy, it's the same thing!

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Literally the first post I've seen on ClassRacer on this issue that makes sense. THIS is the way to go.

For example: I didn't get into the Vegas National as a Grade 5, but if there was no quota and the Top 64 qualified for the show, you can bet the house that I'd set the car up to make sure I was one of them.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

OK Bruce, index/rules...... same thing.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Thanks for the dialogue, Darrin. I liked it, at first glance.

But look at it this way:
100 cars, 64% get to race.
We could tell, after the first hit, what 30 % won't be racing..Yes , a few guys can fix their DNQ's later.
Out of the 64 cars, how many can actually hit the 1.20 trigger? Maybe 6-8 % ?, but why would they? They're already in , in bracket mode.
So, maybe 2-3 % might screw up ?
I can't see where it will fix anything, in a hurry.. It'll just breed a new form of manipulation.
What it would do though, is give a few more guys who supported NHRA for 40-50 years, a chance to race again ,locally.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

It’s tough enough to explain the intricacies of Stock to my legion of fans....thank the Lord none of them dares to ask what goes on behind Door #3!!
I’ll be the first to admit that politics at any level sours my stomach.....pass the Tums please? :(

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

First Do you really think putting the AHFS back at Indy for the 1.20 under rule will really help. Only someone with a real under factored combo or an idiot would go 1.20 under for a class trophy. Ruin your combo for 5 minutes of ego fame. Really !! I do understand that's my opinion.

Lowering the indexes I don't want to punish the guys that are just running the index. We can say work on the car or spend more money. But they might not have the money to do it. And for the new rookies getting into Stock they may not have the knowledge to do so.

Having the fastest cars only qualify for a race is also shutting out the people that don't have the money to spend to make their car fast. Even though Stock is a performance class it is suppose to be an entrance level class.

For those that want to see the triggers lowered you don't either have a Stocker or you need to have someone that likes to go fast run your combo and bomb it. Lets see what you think after that happens.

Even though I have never been a big fan of the AHFS it's part of our sport. So we need to deal with it. It's had the same triggers for years. While in Stock we have had several rule changes in the last few years along with several advances in tec that have helped our cars go faster. My hope is that our reps are looking at this post and will get together with NHRA officials and make some changes that will help us all out. Barry

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

How many cars run 1.0 or better one race then .35 under the next week to bring down their average? They won't qualify with .35 under anymore so they go .7 under to make sure they make the field. In the end, their average will stay high, keeping the ahfs more legit. Not to mention all the cars that routinely qualify .2 under, but can run .8 under anytime they want, they will have to show what they got to qualify and the ahfs for their combination will get closer to correct.

It's not a perfect solution, but it would be better than the current system.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

I see your point that it can't hurt. I just don't see it helping a lot either.
I see where you'd have a bit of a different clientele after a while. The guys who can never qualify will just quit wasting their money, and the guys with 70-80 under cars, who can't make a bunch of points meets, will start going again.
They can always run slow, once they're in, too.
I like the qualified field idea but for a different reason.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

As much as I would enjoy a qualified field of 64, or any other solution to help correct the AHFS, I look at it this way. I have a combo that I have begged and pleaded for power off for years and I haven’t gotten hardly any help at all. A Chevelle running A just isn’t a great class car, but it’s mine and what I like and I deal with it. When I spend my hard earned money to travel 8 hours, I want to know that I will indeed get to compete at the event. I don’t want to show up, not make a field because there were 10 cars running illegal just so they can go fast enough to make the field and then no one ever checks a thing. If they don’t police these cars, then you gotta ask, what good is any of these suggestions? Makes you wonder if that’s how we got to where we are now. I thought years ago taking .3 off indexes we would never be back where we are. I love class racing and honestly, I have gotten to where I wouldn’t give you a nickel to run a national event. I would just as soon run in my division, and race combos. Just my 2 cents, I usually keep comments to my self.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

There are a few problems with class winners and then fastest qualifiers. A few smart racers in the same class who can barely run the index will enter an event (Indy?)just so one of them can win class and get in the show. There also may be more classes represented at a given race with cars not that competitive but can win class(keeping the combo's helps some). The fast guys sure won't like this. I do not have a dog in this fight, just making some observations.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

It is possible to use the AHFS to make a car more competitive, but like all things racing, it ain't easy or quick.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

............and it'll never happen to the 396/375 or the 350/255.
Too many of them.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

We used to have 25 thoroughbred racehorses ,and at that time if a horse ran really good the racing association would make that horse run extra weight ,Now this was would be a cool way to even the fields ,it might be a little hard to control but when a single racer runs fast add weight on him not the the whole combination .By the way Horse racing is twice as expensive as drag racing .big time i know lol

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Don, I think they do something like that in Comp.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Mike, you DO have a "dog in this fight". You didn't win class at Indy and went fast enough to qualify.
"A few smart Racers in the same class who can barely run the index will enter an event just so one of them can win class and get in the show". Really? Come on.

Maybe there's a few smart Racers out there right now that run the same class and only have one good motor between them so they swap motors between qualifying rounds.

What's wrong with there being more classes represented? Some classes ARE much more competitive than others and have much better combos in them than others.

Sorry pal, if you win class at Indy you have accomplished something. As long as you are beating another competitor you deserve to be in the field. And I agree that the combo classes should stay.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

The inverse is also true: they won't get hit absent a -1.20, particularly in a '69 Camaro.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

I just had a thought and I know that is a rare occurrence...….

How about we give bonus points at LODRS and MY events based on the top 10 qualifiers and also give bonus points for records.....

That will force the faster cars to qualify higher to gather the most points and set records when available....

I really can't take credit for this idea because that's how NHRA raced 40 years ago...

I wonder how fast the racers would go with a National Championship on the line...

Just sayin'

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Such as moving under factored out of the same class. Part of that problem would be getting in and then running in bracket mode. Make them run off the index instead of dial and they won't know how far under their competitor can go. Should get the AHFS working.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

work hard make you car go fast then put handcuffs on I thought class racing was all about going fast!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Call me naive ,but if you know your combination is under factored, you're capable of running 1.2 or more under the index and never run the car to its full potential, what are you saving it for? What's the purpose? I still believe some guys were holding back at
Indy.
My rant is the liberalization of the rules have ruined the spirit of Stock Eliminator and the NHRA is only 50% of the blame.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Hi Frank,
Somewhere there, I believe you just answered your own question.
If you had an A/SA car that could run 9.78 and you were in a heads up final at Indy, (as just happened) ,what would you? I know what I'd do.
There's your answer... (Might even get a like or two here) ;-)

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

At Indy, damned straight I'd take the Wally home, but at races were the factor may be an issue these guys protect the number like it's the holy grail. Indy is Indy, it's only one race.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Frank What makes you think that running 1.20 under makes your combo under factored. Take a look at Indy's qualifying. There are several different combo's that went 9 tenth's under and more. Indy's air is not very good. Get in good air and you will pick up 2 plus tenths. Does that mean all the cars that qualified at Indy are under factored There aren't many combo's out there that I think I can make run under 1.20 in good air. Just saying. Bring the AHFS up to today's HP standards. It needs to be adjusted so half of the cars that are running don't have to play the BS game. BP

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Barry,
I understand your point and it's well taken. But I don't believe for a minute all racers that are able to run that fast are under factored but we know some are. Many of you guys work very hard on their stuff to get it to that point. But that's 50% percent pf the blame falls on the NHRA. The rules have become a joke and either they don't have the manpower or the knowledge to closely monitor the combinations.
Question; Does Indy influence the yearly averages and if so that's why I believe that some racers were holding back. Also do National Opens count towards the averages?

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

............and it'll never happen to the 396/375 or the 350/255.
Too many of them.

That is what makes them fast is a lot of people working on them, finding little stuff that can't hurt performance. If it can't hurt, it helps. With the less popular combos discovery takes longer or not at all.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

I can't disagree with that Larry.

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Frank Indy and Opens don't count. BP

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

Big heads up race this morning. H/SA in maple grove. Dan Lynch and Jim Daniels both capable of running close to 120 under if they are all in. Barry

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

But they should !!!!!!

Re: Attention Nova 350/255 stock combo.
 

YOU JUST "NAILED IT" Frank !