Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

1972 was the first year the Pure Stocks became Stock and Super Stock expanded dramatically.
I ran a 65 Bel Air 4 door sedan with a 230 and a 3 speed in O/Stock.
Best time was a 17.6 at Island.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

The cost alone would be tolerable, it's the damage they do when hard or hardened parts break.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Without the crank trigger you can't get a clean signal to the computer. I have spent lots of time and money trying to shield wires, have clean grounds, Magnecor plug wires, etc. but that stuff doesn't work. My tach signal is awful on the data logger and RPM jumps all around especially near finish line. Can't take advantage of my NHRA Accepted EFI system that does almost everything based on RPM. How will I ever get my E-shift to be accurate with this messy tach signal? I know I should have built a different combo silly me.

There's a late model GM in Division 1 that won 5 of them with regular timing, and great driving.

PS some rule changes I forgot: Fix the following stupid indexes
K/SA to 12.60, L/SA to 12.75, M/SA to 12.90 and so on..

oh yea, NHRA.TV on Thursdays should be a rule too!

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

50 points for setting a record.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

No Headsup with newer cars??

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

I suppose "Mr Clean" has that option..Can't beat them..Try joining them

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Bobby , You have an E-shift on a 302? See post # 59 on the Enforcement thread.


Totally agree on the index change.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

[QUOTE=Mark Yacavone;601930]Bobby , You have an E-shift on a 302? See post # 59 on the Enforcement thread.

No I’m joking I think it’s dumb and I don’t use it. I use B&M hammer and miss shifts perfectly fine on my own lol.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

The 2 year change the belts. The 5 year change the trans shield. Is that piece of equipment really going to go bad? And enforce the rules that are already in the book.

John Bender, 1969 E/SA

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

I had a similar problem with my Racepak. I don't know about the Magnecor's but I put a new set of the MSD Super conducters on mine and the rpm trace cleaned right up.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Just for the Record,I think pure Stock sucks!
But I wouldn't mind the rules to stay put from lets say 10-15 years ago just to keep us separated from SS.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Drop all indexes 2 10th’s

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Stupid, learn how to pick valvetrain components and this doesn’t happen

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Pontiac had dual valve springs from the factory in some combos that had more open pressure then that. Just saying

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

The 300 lbs. @ .500" was a maybe. Some BBC had dual valve springs too. They also had valve springs with 327 lbs @ .500" lift, though the seat pressure was only 106 lbs.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Five

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

What rule should be changed for Stock and SS? How about an AHFS system that actually works? Can't believe no one has suggested this yet? I could write a book about how ineffective this system is. If you got some parity in how cars are factored, all of these other suggestions would not be as much of an issue. And yes, my car is as much of an offender as a lot of others.

Jim Caughlin
SS 6019

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

AHFS to work properly, what a concept. Sure got quiet on this thread after that post.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

How can the system work when the racers are the ones making sure it doesn't. If everyone ran their car all out every pass it would work. They forgot to account for the fact that you would have all the racers trying to protect there combo at almost any cost. How many have been on hear pissed off because some one with their combo made a pass that got them hit. Used to be that drag racing was to see who could go the quickest in a quarter mile. It doesn't help that the NHRA let the new should be in comp cars race in stock with very generous HP factors.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Hmmm where have I heard that before ?? 🤔 the Automatic Help For Slugs cannot and will not ever work. Just because we control the data that was easy. That was day one before 1. National Opens don’t count 2. Oh crap 50% of the field is fast we won’t count them 3. Indy well it’s special we can’t count that ... and then >> well GM said they made it so let’s put it in the book at its ORIGINAL HP not gross and oh one more ... if you read the rules and properly sandbag SHAZAAM the HP fairy will reduce your combo (fffords just get the 300 combos at a time) 😡😡😡

Anyway no one listens to me 😢

Captain

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

AHFS can work if properly applied. Racers control the data, but they adjust it at the top end by lifting or braking. If they record all the lower end readings, 60', 330' etc, it will show a progression that is consistent. Racers can calculate what they would have run even though they lifted with certain formulas. To cheat the system they would have to alter all the incremental times. All those incremental times reveal what the true performance would be. Now compare that with like combos and you will see a pattern. If math is involved it will tell you what the results are and cheating can be detected.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

OK, don't kill the messenger but look at the averages data that NHRA released about a month ago and it doesn't take a rocker surgeon to see that the system doesn't work. If you are in a heavily populated class with a lot of dogs, you can pretty much run as fast as you want whenever you want (other than don't go -1.2) and not have to worry at all. I counted a total of 13 classes that were triggered (stock & ss) making a total of 62 trigger runs that will not get refactored. Jeez, one of the classes has 12 trigger runs (the fastest being 1.17 under) and it got .3 back last year. Who comes up with this kind of system? Even if you don't want to dog it, all you need is enough slugs in your class and you're home free. I doubt that some of these fast cars could get the average up even if they tried.

Also, don't assume that 1000' times would root out the offenders, lots of ways to make the whole run look proportionally slow.

As I said previously, my car is as bad of an offender as a lot of others, I'm willing to let it rip as soon as everyone else agrees to do the same. In the meantime, I'm going to play the game like everyone else, just wish we didn't have to.

Flame on...

Jim Caughlin
SS 6019

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Well if that is the case then why don't they just eliminate the AHFS all together. But that is for another thread, this is about stock rules.

Close the lanes after final call.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

The alternative is equally bad. If you recall, before AHFS, NHRA just made arbitrary adjustments with no explanation. I don't have a solution, just saying what is currently in place is obviously being gamed by racers. Don't we all want a better system?

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Anyone remember what year the AHFS was implemented? I have never been a big fan but it's better than not doing anything at all. Since it was implemented we now have better trany's. After market blocks, heads, intakes and carbs for some of the combo's. The ring combo's are better. Roller rockers and now solid lifters for all. Three speeds instead of two speeds. Better oils and so on. Just a guess but the average combo should be two tenths or quicker now.
How about if they at least tweak the system so it's up to today's standard.
At the Epping divisional it was so bad the announcer asked several times over the PA for our Division One Director to have it be a mine shaft race so he could watch 1/4 mile racing instead of 1000 ft shut off's. I'm hoping our reps are taking a look at the system and recommend some changes. BP

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Not a solution but a band-aid adjustment.
S/SS is supposed to be a performance category, with indexes that reflect the hp per pound potential, yet cars routinely run 1 second under the supposed standard. Something ain't right here.

Here you go:
Raised the automatic hp trigger two tenths.
Then lower all indexes 4 tenths.
One second under index= instant hp..Mandatory tear down

NO,NO,NO more goodies for five (5) years.

Example...A/SA 11.00 becomes 10.60
Run of 9.59 = hp.

Response to counterpoint, right up front..I'll save you the trouble.
Most car , even at the bottom, are 2-3 under. If you can't pick your car up a tenth, with all the current technology, possibly you're in the wrong sport, or maybe go bracket racing for a while, then come back. Lots of cars are quota-ed out of national meets anyway . Why not start here, seeing this IS a performance eliminator, right?

For? Against? Tell us why..

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

If you lower the indexes by 4 tenths, all the local Series type races will suffer from a smaller turnout of competitors. Not good. Currently most series honor IHRA indexes, but for how much longer? I like your plan, but it seems to be a double edged sword where the little guy gets beat up to suit the quick ones who are holding back. Seems to me this more of a Stock Elim. problem. Maybe go 2 tenths lower on the index?

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

How about no more relaxation of the rules. Parts have been hard to find for a lot of combinations since they were new. Owning a 375/396 car now I don’t see what parts in the engine that are stock left. Enough is enough or they will just combine stock and super stock the closer the two classes get.
As far as the AHFS. I guess a lot of us have short memories about the complaining of the arbitrary nature that horsepower was given to vehicle in time gone by. It was not 2-5 hp either it was increments of 5 hp at the discretion of NHRA not any average no matter how it was manipulated. You would just open up the National Dragster at any given time to see new HP numbers posted. How about the joke of hitting red Malibu 2 doors at one point. The system is getting a major overhaul this winter from what I gather anyway.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

I would only change rules that had a direct benefit to me.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Excellent point. I would call it the Clinton Foundation Rule, and it would also allow any competitor to punch another competitor in the face, if he believes that competitor took too long to stage.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

I'm OK with this with 1 add-on, ALL un-competitive combos (ALL not just a couple for letter writers) get an immediate 15-20% HP reduction!

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

So who determines "un-competitive combos"? You?

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Not really an issue.Local groups can do whatever they want.
We allow IHRA classes in the AZSSSA but take off the three tenths for qualifying.
Only problem might be in the Midwest, where they have their races in conjunction with an open or Divisional. Oh well ..Chasing gp's isn't cheap.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

You are out of your mind if you think lowering the indexes 4 tenths across the board will help stock and super stock. That would most likely kill the classes. about half of the fields at the divisionals would be un-competitive and probably quit going. Better and easier to fix the problems with the AHFS or use some common sense on the under rated combos. Most of us know what they are. The classes should never be predicated on the elite of the class. That's why there is the class average.
If someone triggers the review they should be torn down and checked for legality same as the automatic 1.20 threshold. Not all of us are world beaters and still like running stock and super stock.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Rename S/S to Bracket 1 and stock to Bracket 2. That's what it already is !!!!!!! Or combine S/S and Stock into one eliminator ! Again stock is almost there already !

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Really, Mike ?

Here's the final Q sheet from one of the slowest non-factored tracks in the country.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

How many cars are less than .4 under? How many actually belong there? I see two.
How's that gonna kill anything?
NHRA needs to bring performance back into S/SS .You can't have their own announcers complaining about 1000" runs..or people sand bagging to lower their averages all the time. It will become totally unwatchable, like the throttle stop classes.
So you think .4 is too much? Or maybe you think they should raise them up some?
Then you'd have more guys really running down the averages, so the fast guys don't get hit, ever.
How's that going to help the current problem?

BTW, better get used some index hit, anyway..Maybe not .4, this time.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

No Dwight, it would have to be someone above my pay grade.

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Sorry...Only Top Fuel and Funny Cars can go Deep.....but a 12 second stocker can't !!!
Just Stupid!!!! Joe Mocci. M/SA

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Billy billy billy ... wth ? You got a pile of poorly factored cars you wanna make playa’s ?? 20% really 20% ... let’s see that’s about what the ffford got off seen any of them in the top 10 qualifier since then ??? Jim hale gets 43off a 383 /315 down to 272 and is #1 and admits it makes well over 500 on dyno ... and that’s only 15% > how about you pick a combo at whatever it is rated and race it if it’s a slug you picked like **** >>> it’s not Bernie sanders socialist stock everyone isn’t guaranteed to run a second under 🤔🤔🤔

Maybe 5 hp off after two years of racing and $5000 receipts during that time 😳😳

Captain 😎

Re: What Stock rules would you change?
 

Yup. Right up there with a roll bar requirement in a 12.85 car (13's at altitude)