Re: Index Change Rumor
 

How about this: Leave the indexes the way they are. And have NO AFS for any CLASS elimination or HEADS UP at all. (HOWEVER!). 1.20 under is MANDATORY complete tear down, at that race immediately at the conclusion of class eliminations. If found to be good then add a certain percentage hp to that combo? I this would kinda put all parties involved responsible and accountable.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Glen, What if the heads up is in the final on Sunday? Nobody wants to go to work at 6 pm Sunday, least of all, the tech guys.
Too many 1.20 under runs lately..Raise the trigger ..then no more goodies for five years.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Exactly what they want Mike. Then they will turn around and say there aren't enough racers to support Stock and Super Stock and drop them. Stop me if you have raced IHRA and have heard this story before. JIm



.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

seal the engine and must tear down next race. Horsepower dosen't happen until then.

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Barry, you're right. Stock Eliminator is now officially for the rich. No one else need apply.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Already is.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

If you can aff(fff)ord the boutique prices.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Billy I hope your not telling me that 25k makes you a rich person. And if someone really wants to go Stock racing there are still several combo's and cars out there for under 15k. But unless you already have a trailer and a tow vehicle along with a nice tool box you need to add that into the picture. Not to many today have your talent to build a car themself. And not many have a friends that owns a machine shop. If anyone asked me about getting into Stock racing for cheap money. I'd say they need to see my wife. Yes she has a Psychology practice. The second person I would tell them to get ahold of would be you. I just haven't seen many new racers to start with but the ones that have started racing in the last few years don't seem to have any lack of money. When you and I started racing Stock most local tracks ran a Stock/ Super Stock class every Sunday. Today not so much. We picked Stock back then because it was one of the few classes that paid money. Now unless you live in a hub with several tracks around you that have Divisional's traveling and time off from work is a factor. If I remember right years ago you could show up on Sunday at a Divisional and still race. Today most are getting there on Wednesday. YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE RICH TO RUN STOCK, but if you are just staring out with nothing it's far from a poor mans game. You know what I really think is nuts the cost of Super Stock. A group of Super Stock racers were talking at one of the last races I went to. The Super Stock racer was buying a new Big Block motor and it was going to cost him 55k. Now to me that's the RICH MAN'S CLASS. BP

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Hey Barry Parker, I’m one of the younger generation guys racing stock and super stock, I don’t have a 100,000 dollar race car, I run M/SA, about as lower class as you can get in these days, we work very hard in our stuff, and to me 25k is a good chunk of change, I think your outlook on us younger guys is a little jaded, remember when we raced each other at Lebanon valley this year and you beat me which gave you a bye to the final, and you told me you were all done cause you were just testing, I told you that you had a bye to the final, and your response to me was “I don’t need the money” well here’s my opinion on that, that’s what test and tune is for! so if you weren’t planning going more rounds in a gamblers race where some of us could have used that money to either buy more fuel, tires or whatever, could have been a better outcome then just giving up and taking others out of the race.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

I know at least two racers in stock who might have little choice but to park the car until they come up with enough money for some upgrades. While lowering the indexes .2 would have no significant effect on most of us, it'd be a shame to lose guys like that, even temporarily. And it just might become permanent.

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Hoo boy, Barry, just when I was starting to agree with you this Stickles kid drops a bomb on ya. Jeez, if you really DID say that to the kid, why didn't you just go all Torrance on him too. You couldn't have made him feel any worse!

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Mr.Stickles, the next time you race Barry, make sure YOU send him packing.
Mike A114

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agreed, if he knew he would not run any more, why not just go red? some of us actually want to race and win and can use that $...

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Or you could just use the AHFS at Indy like it was intended..

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Tim First no where did I say you needed a 100,000 dollar car to race Stock. I think your car is sweet. And I don't care what class you run. You apparently don't know me at all. I ran a R/SA car for years and competed on a budget far less than most. I would think between your car trailer and tow vehicle that you guys have more than 25k involved. My point to this whole conversation was that Stock is not cheap!!! It's great that you work hard on your car. So do I. A lot of people think you just spend money and your car goes fast. Next time we are at a race together talk to me or my brother. We have been at it for a long time and could give you some cheap things to try.

Now lets set the record straight on the race you are talking about. It was a Saturday. The ASRA had a run off of the top 16 members that day and a members race on Sunday. And yes I'm a member and planned on racing on Sunday's race. I went on Saturday to do some testing. I heard that they were putting on a gamblers race for those that were not in the top 16. I don't get out to race much so thought I would join to get some practice. I believe we raced in the 3 round. I won. There was no bye the next round was the final. It was getting close to the end of the day and they wanted to hot lap the cars that were left. I had made the decision after that round not to run my car after making several test runs and then going a few rounds. If I remember the difference in money was 75 dollars. In my head I weighted it out and didn't think it was worth it to take a chance on cooking a trany or hurting parts. You said something to me and I said I didn't need the money. We were talking about 75 dollars. Don't know you well so I didn't think I needed to go into why I wasn't going to race the next round. Again I won the round with you so it was my choice. If it was the Sunday ASRA race that would have been different. If the seventy dollars was that important I wish you would have told me before the round. So I'm a littler confused why you are mad at me. Is it that I beat you or that I thought the seventy dollars wasn't worth me taking a chance on hurting any parts. It's just not a cheap class to run no matter what car you have. BP

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Have any of the SRAC reps polled any of the racers in their respective division about this rumored change?

Shouldn't all of the racers have some input, rather than it just being thrust upon us?

Has the NHRA informed the reps about possible changes? If so, have the reps had any input?

I'm not saying the idea is good or bad, but as racers who must live with any rule changes I would think our input would be valuable.

If the reps do know about the change and haven't spoken to many of the racers, is that who we really want to represent us?

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Keith if you wish to have a say in how someone races you should first send them money and a contract. BP

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If it was the Sunday ASRA race that would have been different. If the seventy dollars was that important I wish you would have told me before the round.

Barry, your missing the point, no it wasn’t for $75 dollars actually, is was a few hundred bucks I believe, I can verify with Greg Sutherland since he won, but that’s not the point, if you aren’t concerned with whatever the win money was, because clearly you have that much money, then clearly you could have afforded the test and tune class that was operating that day and not messed up a perfectly good gamblers race because the difference was $25 to enter the gamblers compared to $75 or whatever the test and tune fee was. But yes you beat me, it was your choice to not continue, but for a younger guy like me having fun and enjoying time with my family racing, after your comment took the wind out of my sail and quite frankly the rest of the actual race.

Oh and for the record, I appreciate your offer on the free speed secrets, but you can keep them, we are plenty fast.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Billy After the race with Tim I gave it some thought. It was a gamblers race for 75 dollars more. I remembered at the Lebanon Valley points race this year I watched Marc pop his Super Stock motor running the quick 8. He was in the final and they had to hot lap it. I run one round at a time. I'm not good enough to be looking any further than that. So now you know the rest of the story good day.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

^Mad respect for this incredible Stock Eliminator racer, no hate at all! Glad to know you Sir!!!!

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Oh and for your record any time someone that has been racing for a while offers any imput I listen. And the day I think my car is plenty fast is the day I will quite racing Stock. Look forward to seeing you in the other lane.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

To cut costs...bring the IHRA CM and PS classes back.
The conversion to full Stock from PS for my Impala is $15k.
That is to be somewhat competitive, reliable and safe.
For me it is also the time and maintenance.

I love the S/SS association races.
They bring the cost to fun ratio closer in line with local bracket racing.
For long distances meets....couple nights at a motel !
Do not have to worry about fuel checks or tear down.

In the North East most races are within a few hours to a day of driving.
Anything South or West are days of driving.

I remember at 75&80 and other tracks S/SS was every week end.

It would help if all the XHRA’s would collaborate with each other.
Use / Rent each other’s tracks and personnel.
Make setting local and National Records exciting.
Map where one race does not compete with another.
Work with S/SS associations to fill in race dates.
Maybe Get them involved with Divisional Points
Get a marketing company to advertise S/SS for the public for all tracks.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

X2..

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

For the record I do believe Barry said he is NOT a fan of lowering the indexes, but would like to see NHRA do something about the AFHS.
Barry I think you may be wrong in thinking that no new or young people want to get into stock. My son joined the ranks this year, and I have another one behind him.
You are correct stock is not cheap anymore, however lowering the indexes won't help.
Stock needs to stay as a entry level class. We need to keep it affordable for new and young people to come join us and Learn. Let's show them what it takes to work on a car and let them want to get faster for the heads up races. If we just keep changing indexes and rules just to suite the faster cars we will have NO future.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Jim I'm not a fan of them lowering the index. I didn't say no one wants to get into stock racing and if you reread my post other than 2nd or third generation racers I myself don't know anyone that wants in. My brothers grandsons want to race. BP

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

I think LAZY is the new ideal! All parties involved!

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IMHO pure stock was a good class. Pretty much stock eliminator before the valve spring change. With adherence to those rules anybody can afford to race. And the challenge of building a good car within the rules was there for anyone. Hence the term "entry level". Super stock is there for anyone who wants to really push it. Stock today, one way or another, is what the racers asked for which brings us to today's reality of the class. Not exactly my idea of progress.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Racing of any kind is not and never has been cheap. It is for most of us a secondary part of life. A hobby, a fascination, an addiction, a secondary source of income, a part of the business you are in, etc. Most it is not the primary source of income but something we do with our spare money or whatever.
Race fuel, slicks, engines and transmissions set up for any type of racing, safety equipment, support vehicle and trailer, entry fees, hotels, gas, tolls, and time off work it gets expensive real quick.
Racing is a luxury that many can't afford, racing at the National Event level is a privilege.
Know this going in and it is much easier to accept.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

I am not for lowering the index's in stock. I think you would lose some racers that are on the lower end of the qualifying sheet.
For us personally It would be a good thing to have the index lowered, but for the class as a whole, not so much. Lowering the index's would only help the minority. Just my 2 cents

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Rod I agree with the index's not being lowered. What do you think about doing something with the AHFS/ Barry

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Ha Barry. My post was not meant to be negative towards you. I agree most new racers are second or third generation racers. This may be in part because that was the only way they where exposed to the sport. I dont think NHRA does anything to promote Stock/or super stock. Also i see a lot of negative comments on this forum and in person when someone says they want to get into stock.
I agree the system is broken. Yes it is a performance based category

Maybe NHRA should raise the trigger to . 1.15 Under for a review, and 1.25 on automatic hits.
Also maybe not post the averages twice a year. Make it more difficult for people to play the game.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Tim just for your info even though it's none of your business I paid for test and tune long before they started the gamblers race. The gamblers race was as you said was 25 dollars to enter. Less than 20 joined how much did you think it was going to pay. At several of the ASRA meets I see cars all the time running test and tune and the ASAR race. Is there a rule against it? I'm not missing your point your missing mine. You my friend have no say in how and when I race my car and I have none in yours!! You act like you are new to Stock but you are second generation and have been at the races for years with your dad. When we ran in the third round if you told me that if I beat you it was going to ruin your weekend and take the wind out of your sails would you have wanted me to take a dive. Would you have felt better knowing that you really didn't win that round. Not me. I'm sorry you were so upset. Instead of complaining to everyone there why didn't you come over and tell me how you felt. I would have told you why I decided not to race in the final. The right I had the choice to make by beating you. As I said I just didn't think it was worth me beating on my car anymore. My choice not yours. Greg won 200 when Marc gave me the money I believe it was 125. I will buy a participation trophy and keep it in my trailer so if we race again and if you loose I will give it to you. Than maybe you will feel better. This sport is a tough one. Your going to need to handle a loss better and understand you can only control how you race not others. Again if it was the main ASRA on Sunday I would have gone up for the final. BP

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

[QUOTE=Jim Whitehead;602689]Ha Barry. My post was not meant to be negative towards you. I agree most new racers are second or third generation racers. This may be in part because that was the only way they where exposed to the sport. I dont think NHRA does anything to promote Stock/or super stock. Also i see a lot of negative comments on this forum and in person when someone says they want to get into stock.
I agree the system is broken. Yes it is a performance based category

Maybe NHRA should raise the trigger to . 1.15 Under for a review, and 1.25 on automatic hits.
Also maybe not post the averages twice a year. Make it more difficult for people to play the game.[/QUOTE

Jim I didn't take it as negative. You hit the nail on the head NHRA has done nothing to show they want the average guy or girl to race Stock. I know Billy said they want new blood in the sport but I would have to question what class they want them in. If they think giving us all the after market parts driving the cost to build a competitive stocker up. Lowering the quota's at National Events to where you have to go to 6 or more grade point races. Having chased off so many paying manufactures. We all could go on. Now if that is their business plan for growing our end of the sport maybe it's time they take another look at it. BP

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

What about change it so people can't play the average game?
Only use the 2-3 fastest numbers a year from each racer eng/car combo towards the average.
That could make the averages a little more accurate.

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Barry, I said my peace, but you can’t seem to let it go, I wasn’t that upset about it, to tell the truth it was more your pompous attitude about it that bothered me more, I wasn’t upset about the 200 dollars, and no I wouldn’t have asked you to take a dive, I don’t operate that way, and I wouldn’t expect you to either, again, it was more how you went about it. I can take a loss just fine, and yes I have been around for a while and I respect my elders, but when something like that happens to you, I’m sure you would have lost a little respect for that person also, just my opinion. Believe me, if I couldn’t afford this game, I wouldn’t be doing it. But I can, and I can have my own opinion on what happened, had I known maybe I would have dialed different and not beat up on my stuff trying to win a round, maybe you could have been upfront and say hey after this pass I’m done. Maybe next time just be upfront to your competition that’s all, and your right it’s none of my business either way!

Re: Index Change Rumor
 

Lower all the indexes by 3 tenths, change to a 1 lb weight break to create more heads up runs. Give all carb combos 15hp back, the performance base has to return back or it will stay just mostly a bracket race.

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Good post, "Mr.Clean" ..Even anonymous keyboard jockeys can have a contribution here LOL
It shows that people are think and contributing in the arena of ideas.

Top four runs per half year.Throw out the fastest . Average the three remaining. Over .95 under, horsepower added.
No lowering the average for hp off. Write a letter , comparing and using examples to make your case. Glendora tech has to get off their a**es and make a judgement. It's not that hard , for anyone who's been around this for a while. I know that a few of us would do it for them..half price!

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Tim I apologize I'm sure to you I did sound pompous that was not my intent. After changing a convertor and other parts testing my car was not the only thing that was tired. Didn't make that decision to after our run not to go up for the final. My brother and Danny were waiting at my pit ready to get the car going for the next round. I also beat up on my stuff trying to beat you that's what we do. I've been at this for a long time and I'm yet to tell anyone I've raced what I'm going to do on that round. If your ever around and I'm going to run my brother now that's worth watching. I will apologize in person when I see you. No way was it my intent to srew up anyone's day of racing. Barry

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This is the best idea I have heard so far. Most heavily populated classes have so many slugs that the fast cars couldn't get hit even if they tried. This idea would work.

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This has nothing to do with the class the car runs it had to do with the horsepower factor on the car and engine combo. The AHFS does not change the index on a class except for some of the modified classes in Super Stock. It changes the HP rating of the engine in the body style that it is running. Now it could result in the car having to run a different class if it gets more power added it might have to drop down a class. If power was removed it might move up a class.

All of this has come about from the guys that have been protecting their combo for years don't want to get hit by the AHFS. They want to be able to run all out and not get hit with HP. This is just a ploy by the fast guys to get their way and not pay. None of this is going to help the class get more participation or new blood. It wont help get more heads up races. Most likely it will backfire like everything NHRA has done recently with regard to our classes. Take a look at Comp Eliminator. That class is almost non existent due to similar things that the fast guys want to do to stock and super stock.