Originally Posted by impstocker (Post 605226)

I am just going to be happy racing again! Will Lamprecht
G/H/I Stock 65 Impala 396/325

Originally Posted by astikhossw (Post 605246)

One is a stocker and they both have the same lift and duration.

Originally Posted by astikhossw (Post 605246)

One is a stocker and they both have the same lift and duration.

Originally Posted by Frank Castros (Post 604917)

Rollers for everyone! Cost effective and makes sense for everyone based on on the the current evolution on the rule book.

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland (Post 605274)

Maybe not more measured duration from open to close, but more "effective duration" due to opening the valve quicker and closing slower so that the valve is further off the seat for a longer period of time and thus allows more air to flow. "Area under the curve"

Originally Posted by impstocker (Post 605226)

I started this thread just to learn what made a Stock "cheater cam" different than a factory cam using the same lift and duration..

I see it evolved into a discussion about roller cams in stock.

I am running the same 396/325 HP engine I ran in my 68 Impala back in 2003-2006, at that time the index was 12.50 in I/S which I ran. I would go 11.70-11.80's , 6 to 7 tenths under. I used stamp steel rocker arms which was the rule then. "Everybody" told me BBC always broke rocker arms..in over 100 passes with that motor never broke a rocker arm. I used Crane rocker arms, nothing special, not even "long slot" since I only have .398 lift.

"Everybody" also told me the car would be a parts breaker running a stick in a heavy car...(4095 lbs in I/S) I broke one set of gears, that was only because I used a set of street gears 4:88 at first, swapped to Pro gears, never had a problem after that.

Since then the index has been changed to a quicker 12.20..3 tenths quicker. Running the same motor in my 65 Impala now, do I think roller rockers, or lets say a roller cam, will make up that 3 tenths difference? I don't think so.. I decided to go back to running a stick too..same set up I had back in 2003-2006 I know I still left some ET on the table with my clutch settings and 60ft times.

So most probable you will see low valve covers with stamped steel rocker arms under them. I do have a set of "chinese" roller rockers I can use, but rather spend my $ right now getting rest of stick stuff I need..bellhousing, shifter, Z-bar, pedals ect. instead of a good set of roller rockers..plus need to get longer rocker studs for those. Plus I still will be using Shubeck "hydraulic" lifters..even though I guess I can use true solid lifters now. oh, I also need to buy a trailer too, just "refurbished" my 1977 Chev C30 to tow with, which I used back in 2003-2006

So I guess my point is you can allow me to use upgraded stuff like roller cams, but for now I will be showing up with a "old school" motor that instead of running 7 tenths under I should go 3 to 4 tenths under..another reason to run a stick. Less heads up then.

I am just going to be happy racing again!

Will Lamprecht
G/H/I Stock 65 Impala 396/325

Originally Posted by Terry Cain (Post 605276)

Hasn't been a flat tappet motor produced in 20 yrs or more but still the flat tappet racer wants to have a dis-advantage over the newer cars. SMH

Originally Posted by Terry Cain (Post 605276)

Hasn't been a flat tappet motor produced in 20 yrs or more

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 605459)

Going by that reasoning maybe we should have a "20 year rule" again in Stock Eliminator.
(does anybody on here even remember that?)

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 605459)

Going by that reasoning maybe we should have a "20 year rule" again in Stock Eliminator.
(does anybody on here even remember that?)

Originally Posted by Terry Cain (Post 605276)

Hasn't been a flat tappet motor produced in 20 yrs or more but still the flat tappet racer wants to have a dis-advantage over the newer cars. SMH

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 605459)

Going by that reasoning maybe we should have a "20 year rule" again in Stock Eliminator.
(does anybody on here even remember that?)

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey (Post 605213)

Let’s see.....started out as G/PS
Ran 13.65 on 14.10 index in heat, 13.20 on good day.
Drove to countless bracket race events on the East Coast for 20 years.
Including all the IHRA races and Class Nationals.
Empire, Pittsburgh, Richmond, Budds Creek, Lebanon Valley, Island Dragway, Numidia, Beaver Springs, 75&80, Mason Dixon
Changed all 4 wheels to racing tires and wheels.
Back to street to go to motel and back to racing set next day.
Mounted Street tires and back home.
Because that is what I had.

Last Three years tow with a 1994 Caprice wagon and Featherlight trailer.
Took a bit to make it safe and reliable.
Oh and the discoveries of towing, owning and maintaining a trailer.

Just before trailering moved up to F/PS.
Every year found 2 tenths improvement and documented it.

F/PS index 13.75..! Best 12.47 at 107 mph on a good day.
Hot days can run within 2 tenths of the K/SA index, Atco, Cecil a 10th.
Still has a couple more in it too..and going to find them..
Always fiddling and finding incremental improvements..
Goal is to run the 12.65 index on a hot day set up as a Pure Stocker.

But Guess you are right again..!
I do not spend 10 cents, 10 dollars or thousands on anything !
I invest !

I have a real Stocker...you have a Super Stock Light car..
Or is it Called Modified Stock now...!?

At least my car is not so sensitive that it cannot be bracket raced.
Doesn’t need special gas, new harnesses every wink of an eye.
Or Wheelie Bar, Cage, or that fancy sputter putter take off technology.

As for spending money?
How come you are not racing a REAL race car ...
...... like a AA Fuel Dragster or Funny car? :eek:
What is the matter you cannot spend the money?

Life is short...I am out to have fun..you are not part of the arithmetic!
I attend S/SS association and Club races where I am welcomed.

I am not here on this planet to meet someones pathetic specious concept...
I do things my way..and been damn successful..

If NHRA doesn’t want my business it goes elsewhere.
And I will invest in those Races..!

I do not need NHRA. .....they need US!

D

Originally Posted by Steve Sullivan (Post 605710)

So Mr. Legend in his own mind (and nobody else's), if we tell you that your annoying, long winded posts are not welcome hear, you promise to go somewhere else?
Your attempt at being provocative on this forum has become very tedious. Please STFU!!

Originally Posted by bykr (Post 605749)

I don't have a dog in this fight, but roller cams in Stock, really?? Getting kinda ridiculous.

Originally Posted by bykr (Post 605749)

I don't have a dog in this fight, but roller cams in Stock, really?? Getting kinda ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Jeff Stout (Post 605802)

88 Olds 307 came standard with roller cam

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 605803)

"Certain" 88 Olds 307's came standard with roller cams.

Originally Posted by Terry Cain (Post 604792)

They actually checked lift and duration. Also checked springs.

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven (Post 605087)

Listen, it’s a bad idea. When guys are breaking flat tappets and other valvetrain parts it’s time to get help from someone who knows what they are doing, because they don’t . Or they need to ramp up their maintenance program. Changing the rules for racers that can’t build reliable engine is stupid. I’ve made about 200 runs with the Coronet. It has a flat tappet cam as per the rules, and we have never broken a valvetrain part during my time as the driver. It’s a Hemi in that with not the best valvetrain geometry. So there is a great example of when something is assembled with the right parts how good the reliability can be.

Not really worried about an internet discussion how I’m perceived about this. I think it’s a bad idea and I spoke up about it.

So you think just allowing roller lifters is going to make this a cheap sport and make everybody reliable? You don’t think anybody’s going to exploit that and make the engines run harder than they do right now with these new parts? Then we all have to buy a roller lifters and roller cam to keep up. Then we all have to buy roller lifters and roller cams to keep up. How many good Stock eliminator racers are looking for a roller lifters for their engine? More or less than 10? Wie will have 10,000 RPM 396s, then how much money are we going to spend to keep up with them? BTW, you can get quite a bit of performance out of lower valve spring pressures if the right parts are used.

Originally Posted by Dan Fahey (Post 605746)

I think you meant ..."you are" or "you're"..and..."welcomed here !!"
Try again !

d

Originally Posted by GTS340 (Post 626199)

I remember we put what was called a 7000 plus Cheater cam in a 1868 Dart GTS 340. This was around 1975. Best camshaft way back that I had was a G K that McElroy had something to do with. That was around 1980.
Had Rhodes lifters and 273 adjustable rocker arms. With some pencil neck pushrods compared to todays. Those good old days when tuning was an art and records were set.

Paul Haszlauer

Originally Posted by Terry Cain (Post 604792)

They actually checked lift and duration. Also checked springs.

Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland (Post 605102)

If the valve spring pressure were reduced, after a period of adjustment there would be no more carnage than allowing roller lifters and it would be a whole lot cheaper for the majority of racers.