Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

My racing is split fairly evenly between bracket racing and .90 racing, and my bracket racing is split between electronics and no electronics. The differences with .90 racing are what I love about it. If the NHRA races were just bracket races, I'm sure I could find another event that makes more financial sense.

I don't ever expect spectators to enjoy it, but I've found that when I'm explaining .90 racing to a random spectator at an event who asks they seem intrigued by what we are doing. Maybe they're just being polite.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

The place to watch .90 racing is at the finish line. Some of those guys are going to have serious neck issues when they get old!

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

The highest car count in one category at any event I can recall was SUPER GAS at Indy 1985 with well over 200 cars lined up for first round.....I was there....

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Coming back from Englishtown with a Dually and triple axle trailer, I handed the toll collector at the George Washington Bridge, a $100 bill. He gave me $4 back. He wasn`t wearing a mask.
MJ

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Got a 1980 US Nationals program. Shows 25 entries in C/SM. But that doesn't count cars that entered late, or changed classes after they got to INDY. A/SM had 9. B/SM had 10.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I had quit drag racing by 1980. Ran dirt track Sprint Cars ‘80 thru ‘90.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

That is more realistic.....a few years earlier was the high for the /SM cars. 1976-1979

Peoples memories about the "good ole glory days" are like fishing stories.....the car counts were huge like the fish they caught....lol

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

C/SM in the seventies blew my mind. So many great race cars, albeit few Mopars. Billy Casey's "Super Pumpkin" being my favorite. R.I.P.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Nice read on the first Super Modified.

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-vid...r-craft-camaro

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Living in Louisiana and racing in Texas, Oklahoma, Mo., Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Alabama, Georgia, Florida and Mississippi , I paid no more than $40.00 in the last 50 years of racing. Oklahoma and recently a bridge in Louisville is the only places that we pay tolls.

Greg

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

We did have big C/SM car counts in the late ‘70s. Biggest class at Indy & Pomona. No big car counts in A/SM or B/SM. Small blocks Chevy could not run with the Ford Cleveland. Those Fords could not run C/SM. Had to be a wedge.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Comp and Modified used to be a pipeline for used cars, parts and technology from Pro Stock.

It was some what a breeding ground for new players in Pro Stock too.

Now, ......

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I started out running my Camaro in C/SM back in the late 70's. I was just a teen ager out of high school. We took the car to the sportnationals in Bowling Green KY 2 different years. both years there was more than 30 C/SM cars there. I was never very fast in that class. I didn't understand what the fast guys were doing to the heads back then. Other than that I had all good stuff.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

How about addressing the 800 pound gorilla in the room? Severely limiting any sportsman category does not improve the health of our sport. A reasonable entry quota for all categories is the answer - not picking on other groups of racers. What is a reasonable national event quota for all categories? 80 to 90? Its obscene for this outfit to dangle national event entries in front of the racers and then allow only the privileged few to enter. Its known as bait and switch and it is illegal. For all of you youngsters out there (65 and younger) you better get busy cuz this outfit is determined to push you out of national events while taking your membership money.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Truly Funny Tony. :D Last summer I was suprised and pleased at the amount of spectators cruising the pits checking out sportsman entries.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

That is the best place for all the Sportsman Classes. Sadly every track has NO stands there.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Norwalk does! Used to be called the creature bleachers!

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

E-Town did, though that doesn't matter anymore.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

It took 8 grade points (GP) to get in Gainesville in Stock, yet Top Sportsman is not full with 3 GP at Phoenix (10 spots still open). That's certainly not fair to the NHRA Stock racer who works hard and spends lots of $$ to attend a bunch of races.

I suggest that at the next level of GP entry date (i.e. going from 6 GP to 5 GP), the NHRA looks at the "unfilled" categories and distributes "open" spots to the other "filled" classes. Then, the following year the class that didn't "fill" it's spots early, have fewer spots (quota) the next year and the class that did "fill" it's spots early get a higher quota the next year.

The process should lend itself to all classes being full with the same number of GP requirements. The total number of vehicles remains the same.

The negative of this COULD be that you only have 7 Top Sportsman cars and 4 Comp. Elim. cars. Bare minimums could be set at 16.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Honestly for car quotas would like to see 64 or 128 quotas, at a National Event I don’t think there should be gummies. If quotas fill comp byes would be the only ones. I don’t know the answer but I am sure most would agree the pros could have the entourage more under control. I guess that’s where the midway disappeared to.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I understand we all live in a blind tunnel sometimes and the truth hurts but, the reality of it all is “they don’t want us” at National Events. With the TV contract they have with FS1 to do “live” Friday Night Qualifying or Sunday Events the less chance of having a Sportsman car hit the wall or oil down the track the better off. The reality is if you think 50-70 count car quotas are bad, I think the worst is yet to come. They really want the hardcore racers who are mentally set on running for a world championship at Nationals. They don’t want the “average joe” who’s been going to the Maple Grove National since it’s been in existence and it’s a tradition that it’s what him and his buddy’s do every weekend in September when they have no prayer of going a round. They want the guys & gals who run 8 -10 divisional races per year at these events so they can market them to the fans. I think eventually when they go to 3 day Nationals (it will be coming sooner than later) for ALL events you’ll see 32-48 car quotas. One less day to pay staff, less cars to tech and tear down so in turn less people to hire for doing credentials and all. It really is ashame but, it’s now forcing the hand of people to run more Divisional races and still not get into a NE.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Greenlight Stock closed with eight grade points in about 24 hours.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

[QUOTE=BKSG1198;606441]I understand we all live in a blind tunnel sometimes and the truth hurts but, the reality of it all is “they don’t want us” at National Events. With the TV contract they have with FS1 to do “live” Friday Night Qualifying or Sunday Events the less chance of having a Sportsman car hit the wall or oil down the track the better off. The reality is if you think 50-70 count car quotas are bad, I think the worst is yet to come. They really want the hardcore racers who are mentally set on running for a world championship at Nationals. They don’t want the “average joe” who’s been going to the Maple Grove National since it’s been in existence and it’s a tradition that it’s what him and his buddy’s do every weekend in September when they have no prayer of going a round. They want the guys & gals who run 8 -10 divisional races per year at these events so they can market them to the fans.

The truth other than I think they DO want us at the National Level. I really feel they are making the National Event level special again. Instead of just another race. With that said, Div 2 makes it real easy to get into ANY national you want. The schedule I think shows 14 races to get a grade point. My opinion, like it or not. Yes some of those are Opens and 1/8th mile. Quit complaining and go race! Fire away lol

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

People keep assuming that the NHRA is a normal business. It is not! It is a not-for-profit organization. It's sole purpose (as per it's orig. charter) is to keep all of us hooligans (Sportsmen, in the 21ST century) from racing on the streets and killing innocent women and children. Whether "they don't want us" or not, they can't make us go away without major changes to their organization or business model or what ever you want to call it. I can only imagine how much the thoughts of an organized, well supported "Sportsmen Organization" must terrify them.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Remember: Not-For-Profit can mean you just spend it all!

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I've been involved with this sport since 1968. After my first trip down the quarter and winning the first event I entered, I've been hooked. Started working at Miami Hollywood with just about everything, lanes, scales tower, etc. Got to work with Buster Couch and John Biedenkamp a lot. Was recommended by them for tech advisor of a new track, DeSoto Memorial. Won tech crew of the year. Got to do national events. Always wanted to run U/SA due to low maintenance, less breakage, reasonable index, etc. Finally bought one in 1987. So I've been on both sides of this sport.

The super classes were brought about with the concept that racers could build a race car without a lot of the restrictions that Stock/SS have and use speed parts to go fast, yet be affordable by having indexes that are fairly easily attainable. While performance based eliminators indexes are much stouter. NHRA was bringing in more racers and revenue while increasing its base, it was a great idea.

Then they got faster and faster and discovered the concept of wanting to chase for a better view, so along came throttle adjusters and the dreaded delay, that spectators are not fond of. Understood.

Solution. Super category classes run eighth mile at nationals and divisional. Tighten indexes.

We are all racers wanting to race. Everyone has their own choice of vehicle, motor and class of competition. If sanctioning bodies are looking at $$$, that's the way it is in todays world. We have to work together or come up with a newer format. The first Cajun Sportsnationals under Pat Joffrion to me was the blueprint of how sportsman racing could be. The conflict with the pros freed up both sides. Can a pure Sportsman system survive, I think so, would the pros like it, I think so. Can they both survive separately, I think so, if not then both side will seek out each other with different stances.

As a racer I can honestly say that is was way more fun at National events 20 years ago than now, too many restrictions and circus like now. And that's not counting other topics, fees, parking, schedule, contingencies, etc.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA ...............

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

It "can" mean all monies taken in can be spent. But not always. Depends on the charter, mission statement and other statements made by the not for profit.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

There is NO PRO STOCK for the spectators to enjoy any more? Too expensive, and FLAT OUT BORING the way they are. Bring back the Jr PRO STOCK, small block real cars, and the spectators will stay in the stands to watch!!!!!

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I'm sure they don't lose much sleep over it. For a great many, this has little to do with the racing. The racers seriously chasing championships aren't on here complaining about quotas because they don't want to be left out of "the show" that a sportsman-only organization cannot provide.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

All you guys really need to stop complaining and understand that we have simply become field fillers for the Pro Show/ Live TV and background noise while the fans are buying their $12 Hamburger & $10 Soda. The reason the entry counts are so low is so that: 1. NHRA can minimize costs(ie. no tech, no stacking, no early parking, no tear down, shrinking Nationals to 3 days for majority of races +++) 2. With smaller sportsman fields it allows NHRA not to worry about running into Live TV issues should there be oil downs, accidents, unforeseen delays, etc...3. NHRA has been eroding the sportsman involvement in Nationals since the late 2000's and have no reason to reverse their train of thought. They are not racers, they are bean counters and we are just $$$ to them, not people.

So to answer your question, NO we should not limit super class entries. Not because I wouldn't want to see more STK/SS entries(I really would) but because it would be buying into exactly what NHRA wants, which is the sportsman to turn against themselves, fight, bicker, demean each other and deflect the attention from the real problem which is the sanctioning body itself. So shut up and enjoy what you can, while you can. We are just noise to NHRA and can be easily replaced with index classes, bracket cars, jet cars, Corolla Shootouts, Nostalgia cars +++

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

...Or start supporting your local associations and hope they are still there when you really need them.

Sad ,but true, so I gave you a "like".

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Yeah right Sparky, I'm gonna "shut up". As far as I'm concerned, it could all end tomorrow and I'm good.
What they had better start being concerned about is who they're going to replace the pros with. They can barely fill the pro fields now and Force, Kalitta and Schumacher aren't getting any younger.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

You're all over the place in this post. You rant about bickering between the racers and then tell everyone to shut up. Well, that ain't gonna work. Not out here and not at the race track.

Just a brief recap: Wally left Hot Rod Magazine and formed the NHRA in 1955 with the expressed intention of getting racers off the street and onto the drag strip - he also wanted to become rich and famous, which he did. Although he was already a multi millionaire, in 1982 he and a group of cronies decided to highjack the association from its membership and in a successful attemp to become even richer and more famous, which he did again. His group claimed the organization was losing money and to date nhra has never produced the ballots that it says were cast in favor of the highjacking. No they have not been required to provide proof of the vote by a court yet. And many folks say it is too late now to litigate this issue. But is it really too late? There are supposedly many open statutes at the state and federal level that may help shed some light on what they did to take over the sport and if it was legal. Commonwealth states can be real sticklers about this sort of thing.

Later Wally decided to hang it up and brought in Compton from Purnia. Wally would eventually die in 2007 of pneumonia, however he had been suffering from mental disorders for several years. According to Forbes and other groups, Wally's net worth at the time of his death was 50 million dollars - he was 94 years old.

At the time Tom Compton was brought in, the Sportsman racers were making 4 qualifying rounds at each National Event and most National Events were 4 day races. Compton's salary was about $700,000.00 a year plus many very nice perks. Like jet $4,000.00 private jet rentals and five star hotels. Nothing new for not for profit outfits. They all abuse the tax code. Well, right off the bat, Tom cut out one of our qualifiers and used that time to bring in circus acts like putting washed up wrestlers in a huge shopping cart with a blown big block in it. They would drive this contraption up and down the track while the wrestlers faux wrestled. And there were other entertainment acts plus some guy with a tee shirt shooter walking up and down the track launching tee shirts into the crowd. Needless to say none of this lasted and Tom got busted and eventaully fired from nhra. But his legacy of reduced qualifying rounds and shorter races lives on.

Then Peter Clifford shows up and continues where Compton left off. But now we are down to 50 - 60 spots at National Events. And with no certainty that he will stop there. I haven't checked his salary recently but he was making about $700,000.00 a year with generous perks, a few years ago. He has overseen, if not directed, the decline of Sportsman racing.

Contrary to what many believe, nhra is not infallible. nhra has it's weak spots and it can be subject Government Agency and Corporate reviews with little more than an email or letter. I suspect there will be a few letters written if it does not change course soon.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

FYI, Clifford salary listed on the 2017 NHRA Tax filing is: $968,714 + $34,606 additional benefits.

Michael Cohen (Board Member) works 1 hour per week and made $30,000.

Not bad work, if you can get it.


https://projects.propublica.org/nonp...19021916104608

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I like how Tom Compton was paid $500K for working 0 hours per week.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Not bad Bruce, but you forget to include Tom Compton getting caught after a few benders.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

The correct statement should have been, "I like how WE paid Tom Compton $500k for working 0 hours per week."

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

how about putting front brakes on the dragsters. Since they "stumble" the motor off the line, It would speed up the class and do they really worry about traction? I dont understand most of why NHRA does what it does, but it's their ball park. tks

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

Front brakes on spoked or pie cutter wheels are useless. What they should do is stop any Super Comp car from crossing the starting line on their burnouts.

Re: How about severely limiting "Super" class entries?
 

I seem to recall an instance many years ago, I'm thinking circa 2000, where NHRA demanded a driver remove the front brakes from his dragster.