Originally Posted by jeff_kovalik (Post 625336)

I was appalled at the some of the blatant visible illegal items on many cars.

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 625393)

That right there is the #1 issue.
The #2 issue would be getting the Tech Officials to all agree on the interpretation of an overly vague rule book.

Originally Posted by Jeff Swanson (Post 625396)

Can you give some examples? Are we talking items like wrong emblems, spoilers, fog lights or something like the wrong carb?

Originally Posted by GUMP (Post 625391)

So, the sales pitch is that a company is going to profit by putting their logo on the shirts of tech guys that are hired specifically to go after racers that are anonymously accused of cheating? That sounds very promising!

If cars are so obviously wrong and you feel it is ruining class racing, how about pointing out the errors to the racer first? They may not even realize that their car is wrong. If they don't fix things, protest them. The original post doesn't sound like this would even require a tear down. I don't see things that are so obviously wrong taking a lot of time to police. What am I missing?

Originally Posted by jeff_kovalik (Post 625336)

My two cents...

After many years of bracket racing, watching class racing from the other side of the fence, and helping several friends with their S/SS cars, I was finally able to put together my own (first) stock eliminator car. I stepped in deep, going right to A/SA with a 440 Six Pack Challenger. Most would say that's crazy, but I have gained a lot of knowledge over the years and have great support from many experienced class racers, so I felt that I could put something together that was decent. It has been a struggle to have the rulebook in one hand, a wrench on the other and put a car together that runs under the index. It should not be easy, but it should be possible - by the rules.

The double race (Sportsnats & LODRS) at National Trail Raceway this year was an eye-opener. With the message that Indy would not have class eliminations, it was clearly "the" race to be at because there was possibly no other opportunity to get that always sought after class win. WOW, what a field of cars... it drew the best cars from around the country and they put on a show. I was personally very observant of the Stock eliminators that were in attendance. I was appalled at the some of the blatant visible illegal items on many cars. If some racers are brazen enough to install those parts on their cars, knowing full well they are not legal...it makes you wonder what is inside the engine & trans? I am all for being creative and smart. Testing, testing and more testing of new parts, new settings, moving cams, moving weight, chassis settings... It becomes almost an obsession, and I really enjoy the challenge, but the rulebook is always in arms reach.

This should not be easy...class racing is special, and stock is the most difficult IMO. I have talked to so many people (mostly bracket racers) not familiar with stock and when you explain the rules, they just shake their heads and ask "how???" I love that reaction.

Some have said I'm naive, some have said "it's stock, and nothing is stock", some have said "they all cheat because they never get checked"

None of those statements is acceptable.

We have a rulebook, and the racers that choose to participate in class racing need to have the integrity to follow it. As soon as a racer knowingly makes the decision to put the rulebook aside, they become the problem. NHRA has a process to challenge other racers, and frankly I'm surprised it doesn't get used more often. If I had a fast class car (I don't) and someone paid the fee to have me torn down, I would consider it a compliment. In my eyes, to be fast, protested, and passing tear down, should earn a Wally!

I wish everyone the best, safe racing for all!

Originally Posted by James Perrone (Post 625395)

And the guy accuses people of Obvious cheating. Races .... a Pacer

Originally Posted by jeff_kovalik (Post 625400)

This is a slippery slope. I will keep my specific observations to myself, but again, these were items so bad that I honestly laughed out loud a few times. I am not the trim and emblem police, and while I agree those items should be correct per the combination of car claimed, they are not solely responsible for a tenth or two. I only noted items that would result in a performance gain.

Who is ultimately responsible for ensuring these cars are legal?

#1: Is it the racers that police themselves and call people out to the car owner/driver? (That’s a fun conversation)

#2: Or do you report illegal things to the proper NHRA official at the race?

#3: Both?

Some would not be comfortable with #1, but some certainly will when your exact combo is the one affected. #2 is fairly easy and could be done anonymously enough to not create conflict if so desired.

Originally Posted by Rusty Davenport (Post 625334)

Not stealing the post, but I have seen cars lately on qualifying list that have moved 2 classes away from their shipping weight/factor...…..has the rule moving one class up or down been deleted ??? Maybe I missed the change or is this part of the new do it yourself mode ??? Just curious.

Originally Posted by e vassar (Post 625407)

IMO ..we have a group of the most knowledgeable and experienced drivers and class car builders ever assembled right here
So if you're going to accuse people or a whole group of people of cheating, you should list these items here and let the group address them.
Otherwise your just wasting bandwidth.

Originally Posted by e vassar (Post 625407)

IMO ..we have a group of the most knowledgeable and experienced drivers and class car builders ever assembled right here
So if you're going to accuse people or a whole group of people of cheating, you should list these items here and let the group address them.
Otherwise your just wasting bandwidth.

Originally Posted by stock1080 (Post 625331)

Another point, how can a "stocker" engine cost $20k? I just saying, or am I envious?
I been apart a few times and passed, I know I feel ok about my car, and "ok" is good enough for me.

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY (Post 625410)

.....saw a crank trigger on a stocker.....

Originally Posted by BRETV (Post 625333)

I wish someone would come in as a sponsor and directly pay the tech guys to enforce the rules.

Bret Velde
2003 ??/SA

Originally Posted by jeff_kovalik (Post 625411)

I (and others with me) did observe a decent amount of items that are not legal according to the rules in the Stock Eliminator section of the current NHRA rule book.

Originally Posted by GUMP (Post 625415)

I know that a lot more Stock racers read this site than post on it. I would think that you would be doing a good deed if you posted your observations. You wouldn't have to identify the driver, car, or event. Just point out the infraction.

For example, "No 2013 COPO came with a supercharger".

If we really want to save this class and not hurt feelings at the track protesting everyone, it might be time for a little "self policing"?

Originally Posted by bry-war (Post 625420)

But I’d hate to be the only guy racing a particular year, make, model. Compare that to being stuck on an island with shark infested waters.

Originally Posted by Gary Parker (Post 625173)

Lately it has come to my attention that not all stockers are running by the rules. Engines not legal, tranys not right and electronics not right. If you are NOT running by the rules I have 2 words for you... F... you. All of us that run by the rules ,spend to much money and work to hard to have people just run what you bring to the track.... Shame on all of you. Your only cheating yourself. If you can not run legal, go to another class. Just think being beat by a person not legal....Not right at all.

Originally Posted by jeff_kovalik (Post 625425)

The beginning post to the thread. Mr. Parker must have had his reasons.

He has not chimed in since his initial post, and no one has asked him what led him to post it...

Originally Posted by GUMP (Post 625413)

Depends on the car. It is legal on a 1992-98 LT motor.

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY (Post 625433)

Wrong answer,.....It wasn’t a 92-98 LT motor....It wasn’t a 350 cubic inch motor.....

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 625424)

Why would you say that!?! I would say that it is a distinct advantage.

Originally Posted by bry-war (Post 625420)

But I’d hate to be the only guy racing a particular year, make, model. Compare that to being stuck on an island with shark infested waters.
You might want to rethink of some of the possibilities of your statement.
Sometimes being different is what it takes.

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY (Post 625433)

Wrong answer,.....It wasn’t a 92-98 LT motor....It wasn’t a 350 cubic inch motor.....

Originally Posted by Larry Hill (Post 625446)

Yep, Larry proved it with his truck and became a target!

Originally Posted by Larry Hill (Post 625469)

As one pro stock racer explained; being protested is fully within in the rules and is part of the game we play.

Originally Posted by jmcarter (Post 625471)

And yet those being protested howled foul. The more drama I see in Pro Stock the more I like Jason Line. .

Originally Posted by jamie2370 (Post 625475)

Now as far as blatent cheating. Either call it out with proof or SHUT THE F UP. No need for rumors.

Originally Posted by MR DERBY CITY (Post 625433)

Wrong answer,.....It wasn’t a 92-98 LT motor....It wasn’t a 350 cubic inch motor.....