Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

While I do agree with you, I also disagree... look how many racers travel to Florida from Canada, Jersey, and all those other very Northern states..yeah they stay a month, but will still travel. I think if more racers would just get out of their "normal" routine on NHRA racing and try some other sanctioning/big money races, it would eventually give them more avenues to race... just my humble opinion.

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

You are right there are and will always be racers who have the time and money to travel. But I would guess if you took a poll on them a very small percentage are your every day 9-5 job people. They are all either retired, self employed or what we like to call Pro-Sportsmen racers that rely on winning or sponsors to stay on the road. And it is great for the people that can afford to do that. But I don't think there are enough of them to pay for putting on a high dollar race. I could be wrong have been many times. So you need to put it on in a location with a high local (by local I am thinking under 7 or 8 hour tow) car count to make it pay.
I am all for the racers supporting these races over the NHRA races. I haven't had my stocker out for some years But when I do it will be for a Midwest class-racer combo and not an NHRA event. Hopefully this year we will make a couple.

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

John, I see your point but I'm thinking we would keep this simple and easy as possible.

Thursday.parking, .tech and possible T&T.

Friday..Two Q hits, then go right into a random paired gambler race, S/S combo, rather than having a consolation deal later on..Run a few rounds, then pair up for Main event , 10 grander .Run a few rounds here.

Saturday, finish Main event and Gambler.
Guys who want to run class...Take the pairings right off the original Q sheet. Nobody, including spectators have seen the cars run all out, weight out oil out ,timing up ,etc. yet. Lots of surprises for all..and all heads up!
I suppose you would have to have the combo classes. Handicapped, but still flat out. The fans should be able to understand that, with a bit of help from Unk or whoever.
Manufacturer's contingency could be posted here


Would this be enough racing to make the trip worthwhile?

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

How about this for an event-within-the-event to get more spectator interest. Have a no breakout race where everyone races off of their index. Make the entry a separate deal so it's just those who feel they have a shot at it.

While I agree the bracket format is confusing to spectators I think it's only the dial-in/breakout combination that confuses them. They can easily understand that the guy with the little engine gets to leave first and the guy with the bigger engine chases. In fact it adds excitement in many cases. People always seems to like it when a 9 second car chases a 14 or 15 second FWD car. So basically just run it like one big combo race.

Seems to me that's just about how it was done way back when.

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Dave, that was the idea behind the CIC race like they had at The Class Racer Revival. It was very cool and fun to watch. U lost any index under a second under. So like comp just with a faster under the index competition control trigger, very fun and exciting

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

I love this idea.

My proposal would be:
ABC @ B wt.
DEF @ E wt
GHI @ H wt
JKL @ K wt
MNO @ N wt
Combo for PQRTUVW
Combo for FWD cars
Combo for Factory Stock Cars unless theirs 4 cars in 1 class.
Combo for Stick Cars unless theirs 4 cars in 1 class.
Charge $300. Per car
Out of the $300., $200. Per car Goes towards class pot. (Example: 20 cars are in ABC
$200 x 20 cars= $4,000, winner gets 90% or $3600 R.U. Gets 10% or $400)
If theirs only 8 cars in your category than it’s 90% of $1600. Or $1440. to the winner.

Consolation Race will be for ALL 1st Rd losers in class.
Winner in this race gets: $3,000
R.U. $1000.
Semi $ 500.
1/4 finals $300.
3rd Rd Losers $100.

Just a thought.....

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Another idea would be:
Class will be 1 race on 1 day.
Next Day All Cars Race.

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

The point i was making why not have buy back so the promoter could make some money and put on more of this type of races

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Thomas the reason that bye back are not a good idea in stock/super stock. Let say you have a heads 1st round and you are behind by 2 tenths. Your opponent spin the tire 1st round and you win. Now he/she bye back and re runs you heads up. Now this time you lose. That would leave a bad felling.

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

what are the chances of this happen. The good out weights the bad

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

you will never draw a large spectator group. look around where the spectators are now...no time races, no prep races, 1st to the finish line. When class racing started, before super stock was around, how many classes did you have 12? so you have 100 cars, roughly 8 cars each class running off.thats 3 rounds of heads up racing times 12. thats what spectators want to see. I think stick and auto were in the same class. do that and you will get fans. why did that stop, big bucks won the races..so keep working on these races, run a index race within it, match up cars that have same index, handicap off index after that, and best driver most under index should win

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Are we talking about class racing or bracket racing? As much as I liked the race in St. Louis it was still a real nice bracket race. Until NHRA decides to do something for the sportsman racers we are stuck with this reality. As far as the future of our kind of racing goes, the associations that are giving us a alternative to the dog and pony show that is the NHRA now, enough good can't be said. I did like the CIC race. We could have had some interesting races for class. Maybe some payout for that would be nice. Sponsors are hard to find but would be a nice touch. I know the promoters are trying to the figure out how to make these gatherings as profitable as possible but until the racers decide that they will make the big dollar race their alternative to the NHRA show it is going to be a uphill battle.

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Handicap racing outside of the CIC or class eliminations yes, but what would you call a class race then? The races were laddered and heads up runs were enforced.....

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

This would be the number one car count killer for A Class race. People will happily buy back into a separate last chance race. S/SS maybe a bracket race for a good portion of the race. But the true S/SS people are very different minded than strait up bracket racers.

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Michael Beard had this figured out years ago with the Autometer Northern Class Nationals. Separate Stock and SS winners, class racing and special races. He brought strong Award and Contingency support as well.

https://classracer.com/classforum/sh...lass+nationals

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Just a thought ,,, Some don't like the term "buyback" or Losers Race or Consolation race.. Here's a format where its fair and equitable whether you lose in the first round or the 5th. (No one wants to lose in a later round to someone who bought back in in Rd 1 or 2, ugh !. ) here everyone gets an opportunity. Qualified field, seeded into the ladder. Right side of the ladder for those who keep on winning,Round Losers go the Left side of the ladder for pairing with another round loser, a loss on the left side of the ladder and your out. (double elimination format). On the right side, even if you have a loss in the 5th or 6th round, you go to the Left side of the ladder to battle and grind it out there with those that have advanced from the previous round. Ultimately , the final round (or Rounds) has the winner from each side of the ladder facing off. If the Rt side wins , its a winner, Done. If the left side wins it forces a final where the champion is crowned.

The entry fee could be increased to compensate for the extra rounds in the Left side Bracket and Everyone has a Shot at the Big Purse... NO need for any type of Filler as the racing would be constant , with high drama, grinding it out on the Left side of the Ladder to the finals....

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Got admit I like it Steve! I could see rematches in the same race happening.

Eric

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Kinda like a Slow-Pitch Softball Tournament (double elimination) the winner of the loser's side takes on the winner on the winner's bracket. But, he/she must beat the winner's side twice in order to be champion.

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

I'm really not sure how much of a car count killer this would be? It's obvious, some who have commented on here wouldn't attend if there were buybacks. Would be interesting to see what true impact it would have on car counts? I've spent time both bracket racing and running stock. Buybacks are a part of bracket racing. No doubt about it. I've been on the winning side, losing side, beat the same person twice, and lost to the same person twice. I realize most in the stock/super stock crowd still want to have the separation between the two forms of racing. Fuel check, scales, heads up, etc. I'm also understanding of someone promoting the race having to make enough money that they make a profit and in turn continue to put on races. If a promoter has fuel check, scales, heads-up races, but includes buybacks. This is a small compromise. Second chance races are cool, but if I were racing in a 25K to win race and I lost 1st round. The opportunity to buy back into the 25K would be more appealing to me than the opportunity to get into a second chance race.

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Many interesting ideas. How about this, a full class runoff, the class winners go into one eliminator, like the old days, everybody else goes into another, then the winner of each, race for the overall win. The advantage would be the class winners race may only have 5 rounds where the other could be 7 or 8 depending on car count. Run the heads up races on Friday night in front of a crowd and the eliminators on Saturday with an all run combo race on Sunday with no tt for those who want to stick around. This would require some level of tech inspection of the class winners. This format would have something for everybody. Location and timing are the key for success, entries are needed to cover the cost. Maybe 3 races, one on each coast and one in the middle of the country.

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Stop trying to reinvent the wheel
The format run at the Southern Sportman race was fine
You want a second chance race that’s fine ...but you run into the problem of not enough time
You folks want to run for class fine
But putting on race format like CIC race where the fastest wins 95% of the time is a no go
My car is pretty quick ..but let’s be real why waste my time with a second under car?
When some soft bogus combo is gonna win anyway
Bracket racing format is the fairest deal
Also the heads up format discourages slower class cars
So please support these races
These folks are doing. It for the love of the sport .
Hopefully a profit will be turned for the promoters..but it takes time

Racing a National Event make me feel dumb ..for the amount of time ,energy and $$$
Knowing when I commit I’m in for a run around and..Hurry Up And Wait
And zero customer service and zero f$&*#$ is.Given when I’m here to race.
I am only racing Virginia National because I had a credit.
Good riddance National Event jerk off BS. I’m over them

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Agree , if you want something to fill in the down time let guys make time runs and test for 50 bucks or something. I would have loved to have more hits on the tree while we were down ,just a thought and I'm sure guys would do it .


The National and Divisional races just aren't what they used to be and people are seeing it.

The Stock and Super stock combo races are great also like bowling green ky, and so on.


This is the perfect time for these last two big money races to shine!! I think they will get huge in the future.

In the end I think all we can ask for is to be treated good, paid well, and let people start seeing these awesome cars we run. I know the STL race was a hit on Motor Mania T.V. People that don't normally know what stock and super stock is, were getting into it and asking questions so thats a good thing!

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

James, I don't believe I am doing that. I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible and use existing software and Q sheets.
What I am doing is suggesting ways to get some spectators in on a Friday or Saturday night to watch some heads up racing.
The only other way is to increase the car count to the point where the payouts and expenses are covered and the promoters can then pocket some money off the racers.
Sounds too much like NHRA to me..I'd rather see the profit come from spectators and fans.

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

The Class Racing Revival had a good format when the first rd losers could enter a combo race for $100 entry. For $5,000,
The down time on Motor Mania TV had Personal interviews put on by Class Racing Today Bobby Fazio of Racers. Very smooth watching and the race had two races for $25,000 and two combo races ,their also was a cic race ,as all know class racing is a form of bracket racing with rules for the engines, rules on weights ,a set index system .Stock and Super Stock was the forefront of racing that bracket racing came from,, I see this format as very successful way ,very little of down time, The race was enjoyed by all.Another way to get spectators is to have a local company pay a fee to the promoters then that company gives away tickets to the race ,The promoters of both Class races were great

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Very good post by Don K on the CRR race. If the car count would have be closer to what they had hoped for , you would not need anything for filler . The concellation races were a neat race, call you for first round , pull up in your lane of chouce,no pairing just run who was in the other lane. Having been there, this race was as close to ideal for a class racer as it can get !!!

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Mark, this may not be the correct forum but the Father's Day combo race in Eau Claire, Wisconsin is rumored to be double $5k's with first round winner money! A little different formula but well received by many and could easily show real world preferences. I wouldn't miss it!

Al Corda

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

Sure it is...as long as you report on how well the promoters did. ;-)

Re: Big $$$ S/SS Races as a Business Model..Viable?
 

The Class Racers Revival was the perfect format! Great S/SS racing, CIC race, comp race. Gives you the "have to win" for $25K but if you red light by .001 you still have the combo race! I wouldn't have changed a thing with the format! A week off of work and it being over Easter weekend was the only downfall. I realize timing is tough with track schedules and NHRA schedules but I feel THIS is the way to go! Little fun for everyone! I can't wait until the next one!!

Brett