Re: Factory X
 

The creation of Factory A/X may have been a good idea to entice the "street outlaw", "all out" 10.5" crowd and racers; however given the lack of rules and precise limitations by NHRA for these cars, it will surely spiral out of control before it gains any sort of stability. First off, a 2650# A/X car would need to be mainly built out of Tube Chassis, CF and/or some sort of light weight composite materials. The factory CJ, Camaro and Challenger weigh 4000#'s +/-(no driver) from the factory; therefore over 1500#'s will have to be taken out of the car...bye bye any and all sheet metal not "prohibited" to remove in the rulebook. Must retain front headlight and rear taillight "factory" locations...WOW cant wait to see those stencils/templates to measure for location accuracy...especially with "no tech". The cherry on top...parity rules and NHRA analyzing the incrementals...well we all have been witness to how that worked out for FS!!! How many FS CJ's are parked and collecting dust due to the have not's complaining their way into being competitive vs them! The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result!!! My hats off to Mr. Holbrook, Mr. Turk and all others taking on this racing venture...I really hope I am wrong here and you guys receive the platform you work hard for and deserve.

I imagine that all of us would have hoped for a class that did not allow for outside influence from trailing manufacturers/teams and/or within a realistic budget for an experimental class.

These cars will easily exceed $400-$500k budget wise to be competitive.

I believe a NA class with the 426, 427 & 428ci combos @ 3000#'s, spec oversized TB with the full steel body, back halved with some updates in chassis, while retaining the factory car(like SS) would have been more in tuned with fans and racers...kinda like Lambs Copo, Richards and Skillmans SS CJ's, Jones DP, etc...IMHO

Re: Factory X
 

A Factory Stock Shootout car is close to 3500 with driver. I believe they also have to retain the factory taillights and taillight panel, headlights grill and bumper cover. The car will have to meet some kind if a factory template. How close does rhe current Pro Stock meet a factory template.

If you can bring half the 10.5 outlaw fans and street outlaw fans to watch an NHRA race I think it will be a success if you think thats their goal.

Re: Factory X
 

I would love an N/A class, but you just nailed the reality!!

Re: Factory X
 

Current PS is limited to 500 cid efi motors, while PM racers can run injection, turbos or blowers with different cid and weight limits for each combo. And some pretty wild transmissions like automatics with clutches. Put those power and drive train options in a PS car running 212 and it could easily pick up the pace to run with Ricky Smith and Stevie Fast.

Re: Factory X
 

Outlaw 10.5 is dead. Radial racing is all the rage now, with cars in the 3s in the 1/8 on a radial. If you wanted to raise eyebrows from this crowd, it should be on a radial.

Re: Factory X
 

I belive this class will be on a radial. The Shootout cars are on a 9" radial, I would have to believe Goodyear/M/T are probably working on one as we speak.

Re: Factory X
 

So then why not pick a common size like 275 or 310 which there are many different manufactures making?


Stan

Re: Factory X
 

The spec tire will be 33 x 10.5w x 16 and on a 16 x 16 beadlock style wheel. Currently MT and Hoosier make the tire, with the MT being a little more common. Now that Goodyear owns MT we may see a third offering as well. The w tire is pretty big. Nothing like the "true" 10.5 stuff some of the outlaw stuff runs. And as far as the radials going 3's. Sure, anybody can go as quick as they want on just about any tire when you talk about unlimited HP and running on tracks that are practically disneyland. Plus, on tracks like those the slick tired machines can't go but about 2 feet because they are just too sticky. So there's no way NHRA would prep a track like that for one class and make it impossible for TF and FC to go down.
And as far as spectators. Everyone wants to say NHRA is dead. I went to 2 national events this year. Gators, Indy. And several customers of mine went to many more. It was unbelievable how many people were in the stands. Looking on TV can be deceiving. And I have been to several NPK races. SUre, the crowd is decent, but it's one day. NHRA maintains their spectator count across 3 sometimes 4 days.
I think this class is great idea. Getting the cars to weight will be no problem, and the teams that are coming out with cars will come out swinging abd be fast.

Re: Factory X
 

With no Camaro after 2024 and Dodge changing the Challenger to an electric platform this seems like it's a little late to me?

Re: Factory X
 

Agree with you, I attended 6 national events and 1 NMCA at Norwalk This year, the attendance at NHRA was surprisingly well attended. The NMCA race which was my first to attend in, which I personally think they had a great racing program full of awesome racing but the stands were empty, very sad when compared to the array of racing going on. Apparently people want to see the Pro Nitro classes. The stands just seem to clean out when there done. Pro stock and FSS gets little attention at races and I think FSS is great racing and much better than prostock but thats my opinon. I know of atleast a dozen new FX cars being built at 3 different chassis shops but they will be late next year till any of them will be completed. I hope no factory support people or anyone that wants to be a sponsor does not scroll past some of these threads. So many nanny nahsayers here complaining about the rules and NHRA its kinda sad. Everyone knows what arena they are gonna be stepping into when they decide to go racing and should not be surprised when the rules get changed since that has been going on for decades. I understand brand loyalty but I gave that up my self when the manufactures gave up on customer loyalty. I will now buy and race what ever I think is gonna be the best use-full or best competitive for me at the time of making the purchase. I dont care for some of the rules of the new FX class and how there is no public explanation and reasoning of how they come up with the paraity adjustments in FSS but it is what it is.

Re: Factory X
 

Hope this class has a lot of cars not just 4 or 5

Re: Factory X
 

Although NHRA may be attended more than its counterparts, its attendance is dismal and embarrassing....my problem is I was a fan way before my brother and I began racing...I was at Englishtown, Maple Grove, Indianapolis, etc...when my dad and us use to buy an extra seat just to get 4" more of bench each! I remember Fridays at E-town where it was 10 deep at the fence for Friday night qualifying. I remember having to book my hotel and buy tickets the day the schedule came out for the next season! So while some may be satisfied or even impressed with the attendance...I say its sad. Did the aging population of fans simply dwindle the numbers via attrition or did Live TV kill the Fans in the Stands??? Maybe a combination of both. Regardless, my point was that I know how hard the teams will work to get involved into this class. The $$$ they will spend as well as the commitment I'm sure they have made to NHRA, seeing that NHRA wouldn't come up with this class without support already behind it from teams. All I am hoping for is that the cars don't become jelly beans(ie. PS) and that politics and/or personal/manufacturer based agendas are not accommodated by NHRA via bogus parity rules. Hard work should prevail...not be punished. IMHO

Re: Factory X
 

Very true points, TV shows today are now doing to racing what the tv shows have done to the Hunting scene. Every one thinks they should be able to shoot a 170" white tail buck the same they think only a car on street outlaws is fast. Not knowing that if you would give any good competitor in stock or super stock the same budget they would probably eat their lunch easily. the whole media thing is ruining about everything. The negativity amoungst fellow racers is what no one needs to hear. There is allways more to the story than what is told by the guys one a key board. As a racing community we should promote all the classes from the entry level to the top pro class. I am sure no one building a new FX car or any class car spending the $, like to hear some ones opinion about how expensive it is or how it is going to be screwed up soon. Some one with a fast super stock car may say an FX car is out of budget but a guy in super street could say a super stock car would to expensive along with a person racing locally would say anything else is too much $$. just my two cents..

Re: Factory X
 

I was really happy to see the rules for this class since it took me back to what Pro Stock cars used to be and I saw it as a much better alternative to the mutants we see racing now.

My only hesitation has nothing to do with the class itself. It's the parity thing that seems to be the new standard. It's ludicrous that a manufacturer could admit their stuff is slower and they need help so they can win too. That is totally 180 out from what this sort of factory racing is/was supposed to be.

I'll probably draw some hate when I say it makes me laugh when racers with a crazy soft index tell others "Work harder". But that is exactly what I would say to any manufacturer who can't be bothered to improve their product to meet the competition.

I'm also not sure what I think of the situation when improving the product just means a bigger blower or different pulleys. But without a doubt, this class has tremendous potential.

Re: Factory X
 

too may classes already

Re: Factory X
 

Talked to an Engineer from work who races PDRA stuff, has a 10.5 tire car that is crazy fast. he appreciates class racing, but follows Pro Mod when it comes to NHRA stuff. he says he totally excited about the FX class. he said that 1000hp plus with a factory body ( and he knows the body rule) with a somewhat small tire and a stick shift is gonna be cool. he said other guys who have some pretty expensive cars he races with are watching to see if they want to try it out. hopefully this enthusiasm grows.

Re: Factory X
 

Im personally excited for it... I love the Stick Shift and clutch rules and I also love the tire rules. Not a fan of radial racing with no bars and radials that cant get down a warm surface. I think the class has a chance to grow and get a wide variety and a diversified group of competitors. I see guys from FSS getting involved of course.... I see potential for Pro Stock, Outlaw 10.5, radial(NMCA/NMRA etc, and possibly some Comp Eliminator teams giving this thing a whirl if the class is right. I hope to see some guys try these things in Comp Eliminator this year at some point!

Re: Factory X
 

I would think NHRA in the new A/FX class is looking to add a class to attract fan interest.
Remember NHRA is in the entertainment business.
The entertainment happens to be Drag Racing.
If another class dies such as Pro Stock as we know it, so be it as long as track attendence goes up to increase revenues, NHRA is a happy camper. ( No pun intended).
Do fans really enjoy whatching all .90 classes? Fans do understand heads up racing.
I would like to see what would happen if the rotation at a National event was changed. Put the .90 classes out first at 8.00 Am. Run Class cars later when more or most of the fans are in the stands.
Wheel standing Stockers and Super Stocker are entertainment that currently few get a chance see.

Just my point of view...
Steve Teeter STK/SS 620

Re: Factory X
 

Do fans really enjoy whatching all .90 classes? Fans do understand heads up racing.
I would like to see what would happen if the rotation at a National event was changed. Put the .90 classes out first at 8.00 Am. Run Class cars later when more or most of the fans are in the stands.
Wheel standing Stockers and Super Stocker are entertainment that currently few get a chance see.

Just my point of view...
Steve Teeter STK/SS 620[/QUOTE]
Well, you asked, so here's my take. No, most fans don't care for throttle stop racing. Heads up, yes. Super Stock and Stock would probably be a lot more watched if they were paired up close to each other's ET, but we all know that can't happen, it's tough enough the way it is now.
Go in the stands as a spectator and you'll see the stands empty when anything other than the pro's are running, with the exception of pro mod, top sportsman, and top dragster. Watch the fans and you can see for yourself. It's pretty sad. The only ones (for the most part) left in the stands are family and friends of S, S/S, or any of the 90 classes.

Re: Factory X
 

Well, you asked, so here's my take. No, most fans don't care for throttle stop racing. Heads up, yes. Super Stock and Stock would probably be a lot more watched if they were paired up close to each other's ET, but we all know that can't happen, it's tough enough the way it is now.
Go in the stands as a spectator and you'll see the stands empty when anything other than the pro's are running, with the exception of pro mod, top sportsman, and top dragster. Watch the fans and you can see for yourself. It's pretty sad. The only ones (for the most part) left in the stands are family and friends of S, S/S, or any of the 90 classes.[/QUOTE]

The die hard or hard core drag racing purist that isnt a competitor has left. Much the same as NASCAR ran off its diehard fan base and only has a handful of marginal uneducated casual race fan. which NHRA has pandered to casual fans since the mid 2000s..... and I think when they got rid of Modified was the start to running of the hardcore NHRA race fan. The way an NHRA event is scheduled its suited as a whole toward a casual race fan.Look at the way not just the Lucas oil series is scheduled but look at Pro Mod. You cant go on Sunday and watch Pro Mod or the alcohol classes Eliminator from start to end. You get to see a whopping 8 cars in each. Most diehards have left or got to Indy one day or so.

Re: Factory X
 

Sad but true, it seems that NHRA has elected to "dumb down" their National events, to cater to the "fans" that don`t care about anything that doesn`t burn nitro. Years ago, as spectators, a bunch of us would drive 20 plus hours from Vancouver BC Canada, to attend the Winternationals, and stay for the entire 4 days. Since I sold my Stocker several years ago, I would still typically drive the 3 hours for the Seattle National, but only for Friday, so we could watch the Stock or S/S cars run. Still went to California on holidays, planned around either the Winters or Finals at Pomona, or Vegas,but again , usually only for Thursday or Friday,to watch Stock or S/S. I haven`t watched a Nitro car go down the track, or stay for a Saturday or Sunday in probably 15 years, unless I was racing. Sad, but thats what happens when you replace genuine car guys in upper management, with business majors and entertainment " experts".

Re: Factory X
 

Did anyone see the up dated rules ?

Re: Factory X
 

Re: Factory X
 

Wonder how many people plan on building a car for this class ?

Re: Factory X
 

Thanks to long time friends and Varsity Ford Ann Arbor MI. we will give this class a try with Bickel building the car. I hope we can have some fun and be competitive, it will be great getting back to the Factory heads up style racing!

Re: Factory X
 

Can't wait!

Re: Factory X
 

Chris, I am betting that you will be way more than just competitive!

Re: Factory X
 

I believe Geoff Turk is also building a Challenger for Factory X.

Re: Factory X
 

Yep, first in the 7’s, can you say first in the 6’s?

Re: Factory X
 

Chris Glad to see you throwing your hat into the Factory X ring !

Re: Factory X
 

I'm thinking skate boards

Re: Factory X
 

I hope you are correct, we will do our best with the resources that we have. These cars will be fast. I think the first car finished and the first car down the track in competition will be the first to the 6's should be fun! One last hurrah before I hand the driving duties over to my son Del. Thank You for your confidence.

Re: Factory X
 

The more I read about this class and who will be involved, the more I like it. This should be a class to watch and could become very interesting