Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Mitch!!! Ya got a PM!

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Mitch how many said that you had to have the AHFS in place for Indy. It was the one race that would make the AHFS work. How many went 1.20 last year 0 nada. How many received HP because of Indy again 0 nada. What happened? It would be nice if they at least did it every other year. BP

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Frank, I'm happy we have someone in there that seems to really care and is willing to listen. And wants to do a good job. You can't make everyone happy. Tec is a tough one. These guys like us are getting older and how many people want to work12 hrs a day, three or four days in a row and get paid circus peanuts. You can't go back to the old rules and make most of everyone stuff junk. I'd like to see a little more punishment for those that are caught with the wrong parts on their cars. Just taking that race away is not going to deter anyone from doing it. Go back to the time has to meet the crime. BP

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

I'd like to see a little more punishment for those that are caught with the wrong parts on their cars. Just taking that race away is not going to deter anyone from doing it. Go back to the time has to meet the crime. BP[/QUOTE]


That's right, they need to get the wrong parts approved by NHRA first, so that the wrong parts are suddenly the right parts. Its like magic.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

OK, so let me get this straight, "you can't go back to the old rules"? What OLD RULES? Cylinder head and intake porting isn't legal in the current rules!
If a Racer isn't adhering to the "current rules" should they not be punished and shouldn't their not currently legal "stuff" be junk?

We can't "go back to the old rules" when it comes to a Racers "stuff" that would become "junk" but it's OK to "go back to the old rules" when it comes to punishing the "crime"?

Barry, I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what you're trying to say or do!
What I'm getting out of this is that it's not legal for me to rob your store but if I've robbed stores before then it's OK.

Barry, are you a NYC District Attorney in real life?

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

What Barry means is that Shop Lifting is no longer a punishable crime. Just kidding!

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Thought Californica was the only state that’s “legal” in?

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Sorry Billy I never said anything about porting. The rules I'm talking about are the cam rules, rocker arm, piston, rod, crank, block, lifter, heads, ect. By the way my store that I no longer own had been robbed twice. No one was ever prosecuted for it. Billy you're starting to remind me of a news commentator. You take one line and jump on it. Then add words that weren't there so to fit your narrative and act like I said it. BP

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Yes Barry I raced an A/SA Max Wedge Belvedere during the Stein/LeBrun/Dvorak/Leopold Era and very proud of our competitiveness. We didn't win a Divisional or National Event but always qualified well, frequently in the top 16, went rounds but came up short of the ultimate prize.
As a "kid" in the sixties and seventies all I wanted to accomplish was to race with the big dogs in the Land of NED, and I did.
I very much appreciate the opportunity and will never forget it. It's always been my passion.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Billy how about you and Frank do some good tonight and each post one thing under helping. Don't make it trany fluid in the rear. I had a good laugh when you posted that. There's so much better stuff on the market today. BP

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Frank wasn't it so much more fun back then. Not many held back 3 and 4 tenths so not to get HP. I've said it before on here I'm glad for a lot of the rule changes. I don't want to be running in the low 11's in A/SA. But those were the good old days. And you've named some icons of our sport. And some really good guys. Are you able to still race and do you go to any of them?

Frank if you do stop over and say hi. I have some great older pictures. I even have one at E-Town with a fan in the middle of the track mooning the other side while there trying to run cars down the track. The guy looks like Billy. But as they say all asses look the same. Sorry Billy I couldn't resist. I do have some great Photo's including that one

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Easy for me.
The N.H.R.A is dysfunctional but not the enemy. Support Lonnie and his Technical Dept. in a positive sense to promote the sustainability of what we live for.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

I forget to mention my D2 buddies Jim Morgan, Mark Wilson and Mike Cissell.
Give me Wedge until I'm dead!

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

“The guy looks like Billy. But as they say all asses look the same. Sorry Billy I couldn't resist. I do have some great Photo's including that one“

Barry, I think I was there that day… I believe it was Bobby Doerr!

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

I'm pretty sure you are correct!

Barry I've been called MUCH worse.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Of course you didn't Barry. Just the facts.
Love, your local A-hole reporter.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

I like to think that I've been a little bit of "help" to at least a couple of Racers (or WTB Racers)on this forum.
If you would look under "ClassRacerBuilds" you will find;
"Under the Index for Under a Grand" and
"Not for Nuthin' But Close".
They're not exactly your cup-of-tea but you might learn something. Besides, you might try "slummin'" sometime! You might like it!

Oh, and when you decide that you REALLY want to help somebody, give that somebody your car to race.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Bob's Berserko Lounge, "It's Weird"

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Billy are you okay driving a fast car?

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Yeah, Billy shows people how to MAKE something that they don't sell at Jegs or Summit.
The very next comment is "Billy, could you make one for me ? I'll be glad to pay you for it"

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Billy, I have read your post on Class Racer Builds. It's not my cup of tea but I respect anyone that runs Stock and is working on their combo to try and make it faster. Instead of getting on here and wanting everyone to be equal by passing out HP to the faster cars. Frank is going to run my 94 car at several races this year. I do share. If I'm able to I will be at the Atco Open. I plan on running the test session. It would put a smile on my face to see you make a pass in my car. I bet it would attract some spectators. BP

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Barry, I've raced Pappas' 98 Firebird a couple of times. No big deal.

Larry, I guess I should apologize to you for turning your very good thread upside-down.

*The "liked" is for Frank!

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

White knuckles for sure! I want to drive a 396/375 with the AHFS in effect. I'll fix that factor quick because my foot would be in it for 1400 feet! Oh yeah baby!

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Or a VanLant 340, forgetaboutit!

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

To all y'all that race the combos I mentioned relax my helmet is not up to date and I sincerely respect what you do.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

*Back on the soapbox!

Barry (and anyone else), regarding this list of rule changes that you're talking about, everything that you've brought up here benefited your combo either in a performance, reliability or availability/ affordability way. Realistically, this list pretty much only benefits the Manufacturer's higher performance combos.
How do YOU think that the NHRA should be assigning higher HP ratings to these combos that benefit much more from the changes than the combos that benefit very little if at all? We ARE after all running in an Eliminator with a QUALIFIED field (the premise of this thread IS thinking about Indy!) and it hardly seems "fair" to be giving one combo a distinct advantage over another! We all should be getting the same chance to qualify based on parity and (right now) there is none.
Please, enlighten me.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Barry are you saying to go back on the allowed parts you listed ?

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

[QUOTE=Billy Nees;656483]*Back on the soapbox!

Barry (and anyone else), regarding this list of rule changes that you're talking about, everything that you've brought up here benefited your combo either in a performance, reliability or availability/ affordability way. Realistically, this list pretty much only benefits the Manufacturer's higher performance combos.
How do YOU think that the NHRA should be assigning higher HP ratings to these combos that benefit much more from the changes than the combos that benefit very little if at all? We ARE after all running in an Eliminator with a QUALIFIED field (the premise of this thread IS thinking about Indy!) and it hardly seems "fair" to be giving one combo a distinct advantage over another! We all should be getting the same chance to qualify based on parity and (right now) there is none.
Please, enlighten me.[/QUOTE



H#ll no way Glen. I would like to see no more rule changes for a few years.

Billy the difference in my combo that you like to bring up is the car was offered by GM back in 70. My heads came from GM and so did my intake. Yes they were made by Edelbrock but EdeIbrock bought the rights to them. Way beyond my control. They weren't some aftermarket head and intake that was just put on the list. They both have GM part #'s. I understand what you're saying and I agree with some of it. But if you think my combo is so great, I know where there is a 70 Camaro. Remember I bought the car to begin with even though I didn't really want it. I think it was my quarter rocket. I figure the car cost 20 grand at the most after I sold some of the spare parts it came with. At that price I just couldn't pass it up. Would you have bought it at that price even though it's not your cup of tea? Why don't you get pistons approved for your combo. How fast do you think you could go if you spent some money on it? Sell a couple of those cows. BP

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

So Billy, if you think it's only the high HP cars that have benefited from the rules. Build your car to today's rules. Get some pistons and rods approved. Build a 2022 Stocker motor. I bet your sitting on a 1.40 plus under car. The only one that is stopping you from achieving that is you. Don't blame those of us that have. Remember there NHRA's rules not mine nor yours.

You also need to go back and take a look at the aftermarket parts that they allow. I don't think there are many fast small block Chevy's with stock short blocks.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Frank the sad part is you are right. But if a 2015 Camaro is in the other lane and tuned up to the max you will be looking at its rear bumper the whole way down the track. I'd say you should want to take one of them for a ride. Just saying BP

I was told one went 9.40's in A testing a couple of years age.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

It’s funny that you bring up the “challenge” of bringing one of Billy’s combinations “into 2022.” I’m currently in the process of redoing the engine in the 6 cylinder nova. I pretty much have been doing everything that I have been told as far as using more modern parts. This includes a more modern lobe style cam, rocker and spring combo, and a different ring package. The pistons I left alone being that they are very good quality to begin with, and I’m not sure an aftermarket rod will help a sub 6,500rpm motor. Going to try a good 3 speed as well over the powerglide. The things I have changed have all helped make the higher horsepower cars as fast as they are today. Time will tell if the 6 cylinder will appreciate such parts.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Doug I'm glad to see your taking on this project. It will be interesting to see how much you pick the car up. My thought with the aftermarket rods wasn't so much as the strength but to be able to play with rotating weight. I would think the quicker you can get that car moving the faster you will go. I have a good spare metric, but I use a 350 spline. You should take advantage of a metric converter. Let us all know how you make out. Thanks Barry

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

When I got into this stock eliminator deal I figured … This is just a bracket race
Until I got whooped in a heads up against Tex Miller
Guess what I went to the fastest guy with a nova 350/255
B&B performance That cost me a bunch of $$. Car was not fast
Heads where ported I asked how’s this possible.
Well we push the rules we know this is good. Glen Briglio
Well after that I went to Bub. Asked him for a fast engine.
Bub said no porting. Needed we do it right
Bub said is gonna cost $$.
Guess what. It was fast and legal proven at tear down
Point being just beacaue you have good parts and professional engine builder. Don’t mean your gonna be fast.
I go to a professional to be legal and fast.
Why is this frowned on to make your car as fast as possible with rules given?

Like Barry pointed out. Different strokes for different folks
We all race to go fast … but we do it differently according to rules provided
$$$ and hard work is what it takes.
By the way Tilburg does my motor because I want the best
Like Barry. And you

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Barry, how much did all of these modern changes raise the peak RPM potential of your combo? That and the "enhanced" heads and intake is where all of the gains are being made.
Just an FYI, you seem to be assuming that all of my stuff is 30 years old. The Pontiac and the Gold Nova have state-of-the-art short blocks and valvetrains in them.

As for the "modernizing" that Doug is trying out, we'll see.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Hey Ponko! I hope this isn't directed at me!

I have a problem with Racers who have a problem with the AHFS rules, following the AHFS rules and complaining when they get caught up in the enforcement of those AHFS rules.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

I understand completely with the rotating weight. One of the changes I’m making was the ring package I put together which cut ALOT of ring tension out of the equation. The hope is to cut some drag out and allow the engine to spin up with less effort. Unfortunately a new converter for the metric is not really in the budget at this time, but we were able to piece together a glide input setup. With this I can use the same converter in the car as well as the other experimental 6 cylinder converters Billy has tried over the years.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

Not sure about Chevys but the aftermarket rods for a 383-440 weigh more than the stock ones and (legal) replacement pistons for BBM are still 900 + grams with pins.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

"It’s funny that you bring up the “challenge” of bringing one of Billy’s combinations “into 2022.” I’m currently in the process of redoing the engine in the 6 cylinder nova. I pretty much have been doing everything that I have been told as far as using more modern parts. This includes a more modern lobe style cam, rocker and spring combo, and a different ring package. The pistons I left alone being that they are very good quality to begin with, and I’m not sure an aftermarket rod will help a sub 6,500rpm motor. Going to try a good 3 speed as well over the powerglide. The things I have changed have all helped make the higher horsepower cars as fast as they are today. Time will tell if the 6 cylinder will appreciate such parts."

Doug, what was your best time with the old combo and where do you hope to be when it gets back to the track? Just curious and good luck with your project.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

The fastest I went was on a sub 50 degree day at Atco in November. I went a 14.35 at about 90mph. The fastest I went during the season was .20 under at Cecil for the division race. I’m not really sure what to expect when it goes back together. The engine had not been apart since 2001, so it’s safe to say even just a fresh rebuild would pick the car up a decent amount. I also utilized the “automatic help for slugs” as previously named in this thread and got a few hp off the combo. It didn’t seem fair to have an inline 6 with a 200 cfm carb to be rated the same as v6s with better heads and means of induction. The loss of weight will definitely help some.

Re: Never to early to think about Indy and AHFS
 

James, I go to Brian also because of Integrity. I love to race and try to go as fast as I can. I've been torn down at Indy several times all the way back to the Paul Harvey ford days. Been apart at several other places too. Never been tossed. And anyone that has worked on my stuff knows I love to go to Indy and I don't want to have any trouble going through tear down.
And thank you it almost sounds like you gave me a compliment. We were there also when you bought Freds car and you know we would have helped you in any way we could. BP