Re: No Blinders
 

Tinted windows were never legal in the 1st place, just not enforced. Ask Jim Perry about his SG S10 that used to have tinted windows. Any altering of a helmet face shield is illegal as well(like painting the sides and leaving the center open). They will take your helmet, ask how I know lol.
Factory sunvisors can NOT be altered either.
Those that use blinders in Stock can just adopt the method of holding it up by hand and then dropping it. That is used alot in footbrake racing. That being said, I absolutely love the new rules, just wish they would enforce some of the "already" rules.

Re: No Blinders
 

There is a specific set of rules about size and how a blinder could or could not be constructed, see section 7.8 in the general rule section. Quite honestly, the 32 sq inch size is way bigger than they need to be but even at that, I think it probably was being ignored and that's how we got to this ban. As I stated above, my blinder are tiny and don't obstruct my view in any way. I have some ideas about how to legally skirt the new rules but they certainly are not going to improve my overall visibility so if the idea here is a safety issue, what I have currently is the safer method. Jim C SS6019

Re: No Blinders
 

Could you please reference this “no sandbagging rule”? I’m not even sure what section to look.

Re: No Blinders
 

Doesn't really matter to me. I sucked with the blinder. And, I sucked without the blinder,.lol

Re: No Blinders
 

This is from the 2020 rule book, I don't know if it changed since then. But it looks like what some have or want has not been legal.


Stan

Re: No Blinders
 

You could have an accident with a stock visor in your tow truck. Should the feds ban them? Opening quotas out here won’t fill. We need races if you haven’t noticed. Different story back there and I get it. Doubles help but there’s a ton of travel and time. This doesn’t work well for the business owners and folks still working and not so much for retired folks either. Have you seen the Div 7 compact schedule?
There are several things that need to be addressed, blinders, not one of them.

Re: No Blinders
 

When do you flip up or take down your blinder? As you swing off the end of the track? As you approach fuel check or scales? Or do you drive through the pits with the blinder in place? The same questions can be asked for taped helmet shields.

Asking for a friend.

Re: No Blinders
 

That is the description that has been in the rulebook for the past several years.

Re: No Blinders
 

What we have always used fits well within those regulations. It attaches to the roll cage, pivots, and is well within the size restrictions.

Re: No Blinders
 

Hey, I am all for safety . While we are at it how about those guys with 5 or 6 trophy stickers on the windshield remove them. You know, in the name of SAFETY. I won’t dare reveal his name but there is a certain OLD Chevy wagon that must have 15 Trophy decals on his windshield ….The rule book sez the windshield must be CLEAR ….

Re: No Blinders
 

I'd like to see them do way with reaction times on the time slip also. Does anyone remember back in the '70s when you had to really cut a light without all the electronics?

Re: No Blinders
 

Soooo, the “No Sandbagging Rule” isn’t real? Could you please quote you the rule you said exist? Some of us who regularly hold 1-2 tenths would like to know exactly what rule we are breaking. Btw, Every rule is not all about safety. Motorsport isn’t exactly the safest activity. This “no blinder” rule is probably has more to do with eliminating driver aids in a class that is more about drivers and less about driving aids. If you need a blinder and can’t hit the bottom bulb, go .90 racing.

Re: No Blinders
 

Well Mr. Gary, I am soooo sorry but I don’t have a current rule book. Back in the day we (the members of NHRA ) actually received a rule book in the mail every year. What a NOVEL idea ? You see there is a difference between you and me. You can hold 3 tenths for all I care !! But heaven forbid if I use a blinder because YOU don’t use one. By the way , I have been searching for the KMA icon….I can’t find it …With Warmest Regards ………M J QUINN.

Re: No Blinders
 

https://www.nhraracer.com/Files/Tech...k_22_11_08.pdf

There is a link to the rule book, but I’m sure NHRA made another terrible move by providing a digital copy for free to everyone, even non-members, right? Sooo, about that “no sandbagging rule”…

Btw, I don’t care if you use a blinder or not. I didn’t change that rule, I just play by it. Now, the SS/QA rule, I’ll take credit for that one, with the help of Paul Wong. But it was definitely my idea and NHRA listened to a logical argument. I still haven’t heard a logical argument from you about the BS “Sandbagging is Illegal” rule you created in your own head. I’ve provided you with all you need to prove me wrong. Good day sir.

Re: No Blinders
 

Yo Ken,

How about creating a blinder poll.

Ok with rule change, or Not happy with rule change.

Re: No Blinders
 

So just to clarify, you want people who don't run blinders to vote on whether I can run a blinder?

Re: No Blinders
 

You are 100% right, big boy.
I'm sure you remember when we had to peel the T's off before the next race..Guys would move them to the tail gate, the door panels, their tool boxes, the back of their helmets, the top of their heads on a sunny day.
The point is everybody knew they had to be removed.
Along comes the no tech tech, and what do you know? Guys abused the rule.
This whole thing might be a reaction, or an overreaction, to a safety rule, brought on by the racers, themselves..

Re: No Blinders
 

Another dumb rule change by the out of touch NHRA tech department. Blinders have been in use for as long as I can remember and I have been racing a long time. I am not sure what they are trying to accomplish with this rule. I don’t use a blinder but I do blind the tree.

Re: No Blinders
 

When I started racing in the 50's you watched the starter to see what kind of move he made just before he dropped the flag. Then they brought us the Christmas Tree so you pushed the tree red in time trials and backed off enough to see green. Then they gave us reaction times, This let the starting line ducks see their poor reaction times and other drivers good reaction times. This helped the less intelligent drivers see whey they were getting beat by a slower car. This why I raced stock. It has the most pure driving of any eliminator, no buttons, trans brakes. Now they let the factory race cars computer control the throttle "traction control" which gives them the edge. The blinders are a not going to help a good racer or a poor racer have an advantage. In my mind it is just one more thing to make sure you don't screw up. KEEP IT SIMPLE.

Stan Hawes Retired from driving, more time to bs

Re: No Blinders
 

There is no rule against this… until the Stock and Super Stock-specific amendments that are the basis of this topic.

In fact, General Regulations 10:7 specifically allows modifications to the helmet shield as long as the driver feels they still have an adequate field of vision.

Re: No Blinders
 

Is there an advantage using one? Been doing this for 50yrs watching a full tree and holding the rpm on a footbrake at the same time without a two-step. I can watch one bulb come on. What's the big deal? Of course I can't string .000 lights like the last few races last year either like some. I'm sure they'll be able to adapt if blinders were used.

Paul Haszlauer
79 C/SA

Re: No Blinders
 

When are we going to do something about the "data loggers can't be hooked to the ignition box" rule? Or how about the "no driveshaft sensors" rule?

Re: No Blinders
 

I searched the Rule Book and I couldn't find a Sandbagging statement, but I clearly remember seeing it in past issues.
Just a note, much of the current Rule Book was written by lawyers.

Re: No Blinders
 

Thanks Frank, after being interrogated by Mr. Gary I was questioning my sanity ….LOL. ….

Re: No Blinders
 

Hey Billy, Here’s a good place to start….remove the 327 intake manifolds from the 283’s ……..

Re: No Blinders
 

I'm OK with that too! But that's not a "written rule" problem, that's a Tech Dept. problem.
Maybe we could get stuff like this fixed if we could get the NHRA Techs to "take off their blinders".

Re: No Blinders
 

One problem I foresee with trying to enforce this, is what are you going to do with all of the EFI guys that use their ECU to control their MSD ignition. Specifically, one of the more, relatively speaking, "dumb" MSD boxes such as a 6al, 7al-1,2,etc. I understand the things that can be done if someone were to be using a GRID, but these other boxes have no internal hardware of their own to do any sort of "witchcraft" during a run. It would be relatively straight forward to police datalogging with a racepak. If the sd card isn't in it, and no computer is plugged in to the COM port, no data is able to be recorded. EFI however stores data logs within the ECU, so that could be a tricky one.

Re: No Blinders
 

All well and good BUT, NHRA DOES differentiate and allow for cars using an OEM ECU.

Re: No Blinders
 

Re advantage, well yes, its great for me in the Gremlin when the guy in the other lane is running a Copo/Cobra Jet and blinding, and having to sit on the 2 step for 5 plus seconds, all hyped up and ready to go, not knowing when that #$#$# light was going to come one........advantage non-blinder

And of course at night, it gets even better, for the Copo/Cobra Jet......same problem, now theres a explosion of light going on behind that blinder, takes some mad focus skills to rip a 00 light under those circumstances......advantage non-blinder

heads up runs......blinder could help you be safer assuming you have the faster car....advantage blinder for fast car, no advantage if your the slower car, unless you need the safety net.

normal racing.....blinding can help you simplify the process, and just see light and react to light, helps add that additional delay(assuming your vehicle can react.....blinding with a T/SA gremlin would be challenging for most) Advantage blinding.......but if your late, your dead late.....

The sun visor of course can be used to legally block the tree, but its not going to be as consistent as a roll cage mounted blinder.......advantage non-blinder

I am of the opinion that it doesn't really matter. You have to consistently react to the flash, it would be truly brutal for many if they REQUIRED blinding/blocking!

Eric

Re: No Blinders
 

If it was 1999, I would definitely consider running the factory ECU in a 5.0 mustang or a 3rd and 4th gen firebird, but you pretty much need a time machine in order to get the software and a computer that will run the software. And those early handheld programmers have mostly faded away into the pages of history. The factory stock cars are a tough one too. I don't know about all of the years, but the Cobra Jet mustangs were using essentially a tuned up street mustang ECU. I believe the COPOs and Drag Packs use aftermarket ECUs from the factory, so that sort of makes the OEM ECU rule a moot point in a way for them.

Re: No Blinders
 

No, it doesn't. IF you decide to take on the burden of using the OEM ECU then you should be able to reap the benefits (if any) of the OEM ECU. The "factory" cars are a different story as is everything about those cars.

Re: No Blinders
 

The only thing that I could find in my rulebook regarding "sandbagging" or "excessive braking" involves a participant excessively braking and hitting a guard wall or crossing the centerline.

Re: No Blinders
 

One year at US Nationals one of the tecks looked under my car while I was on the scale and noticed it had a driveshaft sensor. He ask me where that is hooked to. He noticed there was no Racepac in the car and questions "that's not going to the ECU is it? Busted!
He made me hand it to him on my next time on the scales.Sensor, bracket, wiring and all.
Is there still language pertaining to only ONE tie in from the trans brake signal to the rest of the system? People use that signal to reset all kinds of stuff, and start data loggers. If that's still in there, it needs taken out.

Re: No Blinders
 

We need guys like Bruce and Wesley in tech to enforse the rules. He pissed of a lot of people, but was one of the most knowageable and honest technical inspectors for the NHRA. After market disc brakes, roller rockers, lightweight seats, and many other parts that are turning stock into what super stock was in the 70's when Bill Parmenter and I ran a 55 150 Chev post with a stock rear end and a factory 3 speed . At that time Bill and I took over tech at Madras Drag Strip. Jim Livingston made me the tech director and paid me $25.00 per race. For the large wage I brought my Mitchell manuals to verify horsepower and handled the radio advertising on KGW radio and enjoyed all of it.
Those days will never return for reasons good and bad.

Stan Hawes, Retired but still causing and promoting contraversy.
Stan
Hawes
Institute of
Technology

Re: No Blinders
 

How about we just use a flagman and guys with stopwatches down near the finish line?

Re: No Blinders
 

SRAC,,we will need your help on this one!!! Hopefully the people that get voted in for these positions can help fix issues like this as they pop up,,or fix them before they do!!
Obviously there's a flaw somewhere someplace and there's an old saying,,,IF IT AIN'T BROKE,,DONT FIX IT!!

Re: No Blinders
 

I would say no Poll. This is a great site but a poll would not represent all the racers across the nation. The % here does not represent their view. JMO.

Re: No Blinders
 

There nothing broke. This has been a rule that should have been en-force for many years. The problem is not the rule, it's was lack of enforcement.someone out there just pointed it out to them.

my 2 cents

Re: No Blinders
 

If this rule change is for safety purposes, then it should also apply to Pro and Sportsman bracket classes, since they essentially launch like a Stock or S/S car. I looked quickly, but I couldn't find these restrictions in their rules.

Re: No Blinders
 

it's under general regulation 7:8 and 10:7