Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Yes, that's spot on and there's one more thing in addition. I've seen this myself at Pomona- as the last nitro car of the session completes its run the crowd is getting up to leave the grandstands when Super Stocks fire off with giant wheelstands and then, those spectators are sitting back down to watch. Stock & Superstock are great for getting the nitro crowd to return to their seats and watch a little longer.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Maybe it is time for every Stock and Super stock racer to Email NHRA.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

BINGO, we have a winner.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Bring class back to nationals in a format that makes sense. Try to pick 2 nationals in each division. Have Stock class at one and Super Stock class at the other. For example, D1 Maple Grove Nationals set Stock quota at 90 and leave Super Stock at 60ish. For Epping/Virginia, take 90 Super Stockers and 60ish Stockers. Rotate them each year.

Let's say it's "Stock Class" weekend: Thursday Stock will run their 2 Q sessions and then C1 for classes with 3-4 cars, C2 for classes with 5-8 cars, C3 for classes with 9-16 cars.

Friday Stock will run all Class Finals after the other LODRS categories have run E1 and E2. Stock has rest of day off for pics, checks/teardowns etc. Saturday morning Stock first out for E1 (90 cars), other LODRS categories run E3. Then Stock runs E2.

Each LODRS category should be at 8 cars while Stock would be at 23. Mix in Stock E3 Saturday afternoon between pros to get them down to 12 cars. Sunday morning E4 Stock first out, track walk and all that jazz, and now all LODRS have 6-8 cars left and the Sunday show can go on as planned.

If a division does not have 2 nationals then rotate between a divisional and a national, or factor in JEGS or Indy where both classes run, or could also find nationals that somewhat border between 2 divisions. As long as each division gets at least one feasible shot in stock and one in super stock and at least one of those is at a traditional national event.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I'm not surprised class is gone from nationals. I told people years ago that NHRA would get rid of class racing at nationals . Nhra is not in the racing business, hasn't been for years. just in the entertainment business only. This is reflected in the new div. hires. Sportsman racer are only there to pay the fueler insurance and fill gaps. I would not be surprised to see class gone in all events.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I wonder after one year as Division One Director and previously of the Motorsports entertainment business what Craig Curdie's thoughts are regarding this decision.

The passion of Stock and Super Stock racers for class eliminations is second to none and he now understands it.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Okay Bobby, Good effort.
I would add one thing though...
One car comes apart at every class event. Bv apart I mean one piston and rod out and a look /see at the crank.
Not someone who's been apart recently either...or someone they know will pass.
This would be someone who goes exceptionally fast and beats someone during the rounds. A judgement call, not necessarily 1.30 either.
You guys good with that?

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Piston and rod?. You must be not racing anymore lol
Not gonna happen not enough help on the Nhra side

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Only takes two tech guys and a cherry picker, and two folding chairs, while they wait.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Sounds like a great idea, but the piston and rod probably isn't gonna happen except for a protest.
I was torn down last year at the Keystones, alomg.with 3 other super stockers, at 4 in the afternoon. With 2 tech officials pouring heads, I wasn't able to put my stuff together till after 8pm. Lonnie came over and gave me my wally at 10pm after all the other tech officials left and went to dinner. If you have 4 cars pulling engines to show cranks and pistons and rods, with a 8am first round, it would have given the tech officials maybe 4 hours of sleep. I know you said 1 car, but if you go fast enough for auto hp, it could turn into 2 or 3. The schedule doesn't really permit a teardown like that anymore. Believe me, if I was asked for those itmes, I would have and lived on 3 hours sleep to make 1st round. It happened at Indy with the corvette that got protested. He worked all night to make 1st round the next am. Those times are over, but I think most of us would be happy with at least pulling heads for teardown.

I dont even know where to start when you start pulling coyote engines apart like Robin did last year. You are basically putting that car out of the race the next day. I know I know, the statement from someone will be " Thats their choice for picking that combo " It is, but you have to at least give them enough time to put it back together.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I feel sorry for the FS cars. Boy is it busy under the hoods. Labor.challenge!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Craig Curdie comes to the role from Feld Entertainment. For the past decade, he worked in production with touring groups such as Monster Jam and Ringling Bros. & Barnum and Bailey and was most recently a tour manager for Monster Jam.

And this is why things are changing. He literally came from a circus show. Explains exactly why things are going in the toilet with NHRA. He has ZERO technical knowledge of Stock and Super Stock specifications. I'm sure he really understands specs on cam lift, duration, carburetor, intake manifold, head casting numbers specs or production numbers. The division director should be the person with the most knowledge or understanding of these issues or questions. WHY did NHRA pick these people for division directors that have no knowledge or experience in these important areas? This make absolutely no sense. Pretty sad that these "Directors" refer questions to OTHER division directors because they don't have any answers or knowledge in the field that they were hired to deal with. Again, WHY is this happening?

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I agree not happening pulling a rod and piston with limited time just not practical.
As a alternative to keep people honest why not do some simple checks.

1) Pump the motor to check cubic inches. Had this done when I ran modified many times.

2) Use a inspection camera and check piston for dish, flat top or dome to match spec.

3) Quick look at the carb or throttle body.

4) Check valve lift on stockers.

This would take about a hour or so and easy.
Far from perfect but better than what we have now which is nothing.
I would think any funny business would not be the top qualifiers but further down the qualifying sheet. Joe racer hurts his 327 and has a 383 short block sitting there from the bracket car and thinks why not just to finish the year. Nobody checks anyway.
Do a few cars at every div. race.
May help maintain the integrity of the classes.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I like this way better. I'll be honest: I do not bring the tools, parts, or expertise to get torn down and race the next day. If I ever get protested or torn down, I'm just going home. I understand it's part of the class, but I genuinely want to avoid it altogether.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

1, Big cubes aren't what to look for here.

2, Can't tell where the top ring groove is, or assembly weights, or crank weight, shape.

3, Nothing there on carbed cars. EFI throttle bodies? ...I'll give you that one

4 Some cars still use some form of hydraulics.

Cars down the list? Subject for another day.
I mentioned exceptionally fast cars beating others in class

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Maybe not the place and fit for you.

Funny, but 30-40 years ago, ALL class winners had to load up and tow over to the Ford dealer in town, for a minimum head off teardown. Most ,if not all passed and were ready the next morning. Next day, they started all over again with Super Stock
At that time , you had to win class to guarantee a spot in the eliminator

Today, Class run off is optional. Don't want to tear down? Have a seat in the bleachers.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I don't know Mr. Curdie and I don't mean to bash him but when he was appointed and his bio was published I thought to myself "are they effing kidding me?"

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I mentioned , judgement calls.
Robin's car didn't need to come apart. Everybody knows why those cars are fast.
(No disrespect intended)
Same goes for 302 FFFords with 130 something ratings

396 or LT 1 Camaros? Different story.
While I'm at it..
No more ..."I didn't know. My engine builder must have done it"
Enjoy your year vacation!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Oh well, stock eliminator is not for everybody …:):)

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Round track racers around the northeast are required to have a screw in plug in the side of the pan so the officials can look at the crank, rod, and piston. Quick way to verify if the correct parts are in there. Just food for thought.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

If you get a request for a tear down and/or get protested and refuse to do it and/or just leave the facility, you will get at least a year off to think about it. Plus when you come back a year later you will have to do the tear down anyway before you are allowed to race again.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Disappointing to see fewer races with Class Eliminations. Just as disappointing to me is seeing all the fuss about going through a tear down. Yes, it’s a BIG pain, always has been. A Class racer needs to have the ability to do treardown. With my generation it wasn’t so much about if you were selected for a tear down but how many times you got picked for it. Successful tech inspection is an achievement, for many it was a badge of honor. I remember one of the Hemi racers even boasting about getting the head off his before anyone else. We are unique, this is Class racing, it's what we signed up for. It gives us a level of credibility that others don't have.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I remember how efficient the tear downs went at Paul Harvey Ford. When I went through they did two groups each day. Cars in the morning shift had to be out before the next group showed up in the afternoon. Great place for tech inspections. They got a lot of cars through tech quickly. Lots of skilled tech inspectors was why it went so well.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Y'all are misunderstanding me; I mean I'll let them tear me down, but that's gonna do it for me. I feel like I have the ability to put one back together, but I probably won't be doing it at the race track. Better safe than sorry, I do not have the funds to screw my motor up and replace it.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Not to sound like 660, but y'all wonder why the class is fading...

I really expected someone to say "Well I'd help you out" "I'd be happy to give you a hand" but no. You all would prefer there be one less car. lame.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Now that's not what M.J. said. And I know that if you needed some help, another Racer would gladly help you. I know that I would. It's the way we do things.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

It feels like they're slacking on the Class Eliminations front. I miss having it at every National in Division 2.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Well I certainly appreciate that. I'm willing to work on my car, but frankly I lack the years of expertise the vast majority of guys in this sport have. I'd be terrified if they pointed at me and asked for a intake valve, I hope they never do! That's why I say I'll let them have a look, but going back together is gonna be... a process.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Normally the Division Director is a Tech Director first and then promoted .

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Before blaming Mr. Curdie we must look at what NHRA requires for a Division Director position.
Click the link below:
https://www.teamworkonline.com/motor...vision-2066392

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Theres no shame in your approach. If I get targeted for tear down, I certainly hope my engine builder is around to help put things back together correctly. Many racers pay for more experienced mechanics to assist them at Indy. If you have a common engine, and a few racers friends, I am sure you will get offers of assistance.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

I would much prefer them to put a camera through a cap in the oil pan to look around to verify no illegal grinding/holes in the crank, no aluminum rods and no lightened pistons. If things look questionable they can always have you pull a rod for verification. Its not perfect, but a simple approach to deter the most aggregious cheating. Some cars have incredible 60' times for their class that should raise the suspicions of NHRA tech, this is a tool to address potential problems.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Give em what they want...

https://youtube.com/shorts/wwEX40PSr...DPjIWcqA_MK-Gt

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

because they pay division directors under $100k and nobody that knows, will take this job for that money, not to mention the travel and having to deal with 100s of crybabies that will bitch about every decision you make that they don't agree with at everyone of the divisional you are responsible for.

GENERAL:
The Division Director is responsible for managing all operational aspects of regional and divisional sportsman racing events. This includes working closely with our member tracks and racers to develop marketing programs that enhance the racing experience, coordination with track operators and staff, handling media for the events, negotiation of event/sponsor contracts, staff supervision, implementation of racing safety and technical standards, and office management. The Division office is located in the Dallas, TX area, and requires travel throughout NHRA's south-central division.

PRIMARY RESPONSIBILITIES:
Manage division Member Track network.
Explore opportunities to increase the Member Track network.
Support all national events within the division.
Manage all divisional events.
Assist member tracks with marketing activities.
Promote divisional programs.
Public/Media Relations.
Training (tech, emergency, certification crew, etc..).
Maintain and manage a network of chassis inspectors.
Develop new programs to grow activity within the division.
Secure sponsorship for various programs offered within the division and service clients.
Agreements, expense reports, invoices, etc.
Setup and run division track operator meetings and banquet.
Budget monitoring.
Maintain all divisional equipment.
Support various Rule Committees and Advisory Councils.

MINIMUM SKILLS/EXPERIENCE/EDUCATION REQUIREMENTS:
BA or BS preferably in sports marketing, sports administration or facility management is required.
A minimum of 5 years related experience with an emphasis on event marketing.
Minimum of 5 years of supervisory experience.
Must be proficient in MS Office Suite.
Experience with budgets, P&L, sales forecasting, event management, and accounting basics required.
Must be detail oriented, organized, and able to work independently and efficiently to meet deadlines.
Excellent ability to communicate effectively with clients and all levels of management both in writing and verbally.
A background in sports or motorsports racing is a plus.

PHYSICAL REQUIREMENTS:
Able to work at a computer all day.
Ability to talk on the phone as needed.
Ability to sit, stand, walk, bend, push, run or lift as needed.
Ability to lift up to 50 lbs.
Ability to travel via air or car as needed to races.
Must be able to work in an outdoor environment in variable weather conditions.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Just curious , how many years have you been racing in stock AND what is your combination ?? CHEERS !!!

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

How much time are we talking about? (I'm a .90's guy switching to stock) I think if it's not at least overnight I'm not getting it done in time for a round of racing. I just had a hiccup firing up my new stocker motor for the 1st time. I had a little problem with an intake gasket and let some water get into the lifter valley. Pulling the top end, valve train and intake and re-assembly (minus clean up) was a good 4hrs of work. Taking out a piston dealing with BBF headers in a 60's mustang would add about 6-7 more hours. I'm not as young as I use to be and might fall asleep under the car. LOL

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

This has gone way off topic. In Division 2, pre-Covid, we had Class at every National Event. The quotas were low, most were three day events, and there was very little teardown. I never once witnessed a racer refuse the trophy for any reason.

I really don't understand why you guys are going out of your way to justify the NHRA's decision to drop one of the few things that make what we do stand out.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Daren, NHRA's decision is based on it's own time constraints and Class Elimination's relevance. It's just not relevant to run when you have a 50-60 car field. There's nothing that "stands out" about a handful of classes with a couple of cars and "combo" eliminations. At least not to me.
I always enjoy running class and I wish that I could do it more often than I do but as I've said on here before I don't like running Natl. Events anymore. I DO enjoy the Sportsnationals concept and I wish that NHRA would take a serious look at running class at certain Div. Events where the car counts would make Class Eliminations relevant again OR have more Sportsnationals Events.

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

Anxiously awaiting this response, myself

Re: The Demise Of Class Eliminations
 

That's all good. I still prefer the watered-down version of Class Eliminations at Nationals over none.