Re: Entry level class?
 

IF we decide to race stock, my engines will be built by either Barton or Patterson Elite, I don' mess around, only the best involved in my racing program.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Good afternoon 1320!
Those builders you mentioned are way past entry level. A racer can spend that kind of money and instantly be competitive. This was an enjoyable thread until you made about how much cash you could spend.

Re: Entry level class?
 

I always thought P and lower was entry level

Re: Entry level class?
 

Richard Cranium has spoken, Y'all better be careful of Mr. Big coming to your neighborhood.
He'll either be the cat's meow or a ***** cat. My Money is on the latter.

Re: Entry level class?
 

this kind of thought is why stock might die. the amount of $ that has to be laid out is over what the younger generation can afford.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Entry level and Drag Racing cannot be used in the same sentence.. IMO…😂

Re: Entry level class?
 

Mr. Big is a tire kicker & you're correct with your money. The evidence is below.

https://classracer.com/classforum/sh...highlight=COPO

Re: Entry level class?
 

He’s wrong and so are you!:p

Re: Entry level class?
 

cry us a river

Re: Entry level class?
 

the only ones that will be crying are the old men that line up against my son if we decide to run stock eliminator.:D

Re: Entry level class?
 

One of the most prominent ways narcissistic parents view their children as extensions of themselves is by living vicariously through their kids' accomplishments. These parents often see their children as a means to achieve the success and recognition they desire for themselves...Quite a sad state of affairs

Re: Entry level class?
 

either step up or be quiet

Re: Entry level class?
 

The age old argument youth and enthusiasm VS old age & treachery

Re: Entry level class?
 

I hope you do join us. It would be cool if you had a stocker for your son and converted your Firebird back to Super stock. Have a father son team. No doubt your son would do well. I can tell you it is not as easy as it looks. Come on in the water is fine.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Mike, we already have a father son team that has been very successful over the past 5 years competing in the NHRA LODRS and as of last year, I am back in the seat of the Firebird competing in big $ races.

That said, the Firebird, will not see super stock competition as long as I own it. It's a very good top bulb bracket car and Super Street car.

As to stock, no class is easy however on average, the reaction times, packages in stock are easy for an accomplished driver to get in on and when you consider that many in stock can't drive or don't want to drive the stripe, it makes it easy for driver's that do.

Re: Entry level class?
 

From what I've seen, there is some truth to this. I think you can get away with more in Stock depending on the round, but it's so tough to actually WIN. You might get by a round or two with a .050 bulb, but sooner or later you are going to run somebody who knows what time of day it is. Besides, most of what stock is and what makes it so difficult is everything that happens in the garage and at the trailer to make a 305, manually shifted, quadrajet carbureted in my case vehicle consistent, fast enough, and raceable. This isn't like a blueprint engine with a electric shifted powerglide and a 750 holley. The constraints of the class is what makes it more difficult than just being a decent footfeeder.

Re: Entry level class?
 

It's the year 2024, you build/buy a car that takes full advantage of the current rules and the state of stock eliminator. That means a late model factory stocker that runs well in the 9's, setup like a bracket car and with a driver that owns both ends of the track more often than not and you've got a winning combination!

Re: Entry level class?
 

Unpopular opinion on this thread, but I think that Stock Eliminator is probably the closest thing to an "entry level" class at the NHRA divisional/national level. If you aren't too concerned about going fast, there are still quite a decent number of combinations that can be built for less than 5k and be competitive. IMHO Super Street has gotten out of hand, even more so than Stock. To be honest, I think it really just depends on what you already have/don't have to work with. Building a car from scratch, you can build a competitive M/S or lower Stocker cheaper than what I would consider an "entry level" Super Street car(mid to low 10s without a throttle stop). Not saying it can't be done, but more "slow" stockers turn on win lights than low budget super street cars.

Re: Entry level class?
 

I'm a little confused as to why no one here is discussing that most of us started out bracket racing before advancing into either the Stock/SS route or the Super class route. In both cases, you can slowly build a bracket car chassis that meet those types of scenarios and then later build an engine to advance into actual class racing. If your budget doesn't allow advancing into class racing, there is nothing to be ashamed about if you just stick with bracket racing for your entire racing career. Quite honestly, I sometimes think I had more fun back in my flatbed trailer and half ton pickup days.

Re: Entry level class?
 

that may have Changed, with a gold card you used to be able to run any et event at any nhra track. My last couple of Nhra gold cards were not good for NHRA bracket racing. And only way to get an et gold card was to win the bracket finals, not too many of those out there. But the et gold card might be different….[/QUOTE]

They did change it sometime in the 2010's. I won the Div 3 ET Finals in 2019, and I was not able to use my Gold card for Nationals or Divisionals in 2020. It was disappointing.

Re: Entry level class?
 

As a couple others have pointed out I believe the entry level for the sport is the local weekly bracket races, where you can take you daily driver and run it down the strip. I guess the argument could be made for both S/St and Stock as entry level. In stock as stated if you don't want to be fast you can put a car together for a smaller amount of money, same can be said for a S/St car. 2800 lbs and 10.90 is all that is required. Will either be competitive, IMO that depends on the driver behind the wheel. Is it ideal, I think most would say no.

Re: Entry level class?
 

These cars are certainly out there, but if you showed up in the Super Comp staging lanes with $30K in your pocket you could probably pick from at least half the cars there.

There are reasonable ways to get into just about any class if you don't mind being on the slow end. Everyone keeps going faster and faster, but it isn't necessary to be competitive.*

*applies more to Super-classes; there are actual competitive advantages to being fast in S/SS.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Yes, I think we all can agree on that, only issue is the question was entry-level class for NHRA, divisionals and nationals I believe

Re: Entry level class?
 

I disagree on both points. $30k super comp turnkey cars are few, everything old and mostly junk and competitive is not winning a round or 2 but being a threat to win any race and the championship!

Re: Entry level class?
 

Chris Garrison?

Re: Entry level class?
 

As I said, not competitive and junk

Re: Entry level class?
 

Ouch

Re: Entry level class?
 

Keith, that’s my opinion, maybe I’m wrong and there is a line of old guys with $30k burning a hole in their pocket that want an old 1995 quay car with a 468, case mufflers and golf cart tires upfront :D

Re: Entry level class?
 

My point is build or buy the car, it might not be competitive (as in not under the index) but totally viable for bracket racing until it is. My car was not sub index when I first built it but I bracket raced it and thrashed on it until it was. If you think this isn't a viable way to get into class racing, maybe talk to Jody Lang, that's how he started out with his car and it seems like it worked out pretty good for him?

Re: Entry level class?
 

I get it, and agree.
At my local track there were no stock or super stock cars running so I really had no idea whatsoever about the class or how to begin it as an entry level into nhra racing but my bracket car could run 10.70s flat out and fit the s/st rules so that’s where I started. Now if we had people like Billy Nees racing at that same track weekly maybe things would have been different. But again like you said I think almost all started at the bracket level

Re: Entry level class?
 

It was pretty easy to find the facts on Chris & 1320's son on nhra.com. There was no record of either of them competing on National/Divisional level in 2023. I only went back to 2021 & 2022, again on a National/Divisional level.

The NHRA standings show the facts about Chris's so called "not competitive junk" when compared to 1320's son.

Re: Entry level class?
 

If comparing entry level classes of Super Street and Stock, I've done both and Super Street is definitely more entry level. Build a 1/2 decent 454 and a power glide, put it in an old back half car. Spend a $1,000 on a delay box and throttle stop. A couple test n tune days and then drive it like a bracket car. NHRA has already picked your dial in. Best dollars to spend is on a good converter. Stock I've had to spend a lot more $$ buying a competitive car and I don't see how anyone could build it for any less. And I've spent the 1st year learning all the idiosyncrasies of it. Metric 200 transmissions are a picky beast. After 30 years of bracket racing against some of the best drivers in the country, who's in the other lane don't bother me, but is this cranky old car gunna repeat for me, Never had to think about it bracket racing or 10.90.

Tom Flowers
E/SA 3860

Re: Entry level class?
 

Some of them cars in S/ST dont look entry level

Re: Entry level class?
 

First, 1700camaro is Bryan King, a drr regular poster, a nobody, an average bracket racer at best at his home duck pond LVMS who can’t do shyt when the Fling is there with his pos now wannabe street outlaw car, who’s only posting here now, because I am.

That said, the facts are Chris has never beaten my son! Further, my son drove around him, trailered him and took the division championship from him in 2018 with the most points ever in D1 and was also the youngest ever, when Chris all but declared he had won division after the first race of the season!!
Yes his car is junk and no one is giving him $30k for it, NO ONE! But this ain't about Chris nor do I have issue with Chris.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Entry level S/ST car

https://i.imgur.com/sT8Vwlgl.jpg

Re: Entry level class?
 

Celebrating round wins from your son 6 years ago?

What's next...Reliving your coaching days on the little league field?

Re: Entry level class?
 

Never said he did!

Now, it's just "junk"; it was competitive in 2021 & 2022 according to NHRA standings. Pretty sure he was ahead in the standings over your son. Except 1 category them years: with your son only ahead by 2 spots in points.

You bring up 2018, sounds like his "junk" was again competitive. It's not about Chris & your son, it's about your statement; "not competitive and junk". "junk" is your opinion. Competitive, the car is according to the evidence.

Re: Entry level class?
 

Talk about what you know, not what you think you know. It ain’t competitive, He will never win a division championship much less a national championship with that car! They said, you can be sure he never wants to see my son as well a few other D1 drivers in the other lane that he has never turned on the win light against.;)

Re: Entry level class?
 

Nah, I never coached him in little league. :p

That said, clearly you are posting here to engage me, surely from drr, most likely imakehp, as all but your 1st post joining 2 weeks ago are comments about me. You can't hide.:p

Now if you like, we can talk about his national event finals/ wins, 2nd place finish in the division, Jegs Allstar qualifier, 30 under 30 selection and #4 in the world in '19 or we can talk about his 2nd place finish in the division in '22 or the $150k+ he has won bracket racing since '21 or his selection to the Fling's Allstar race? :p

Re: Entry level class?
 

1700 won a race in Vegas a week or two ago while you were banging on the keyboard.