Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Years ago NHRA tech measured pulley sizes in the alcohol classes with a piece of blower belt numbering the teeth like a ruler as an easy check for pulley teeth. This clearly would've called out the cheating as the space between the pulley teeth would've been counted. The problem was they were allowed to cover the pulleys as if and when the belt breaks it can take out a harness. This should've never been allowed and overdrive checked with a simple system belt ruler as tech has done in the past. Keep it simple.

Fines don't seem to hinder cheating, suspensions non-existent here. Since self tech was used, How about self enforcement from their competitors. Or self tech your competitor, like in grade school when you passed your test to your neighbor to grade. Sad to see NHRA tech come to this and yes I blame them for either never checking or turning an eye. A year and a half..... Damn!

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

A deeper dive into this subject is up on Competition Plus.

https://competitionplus.com/drag-rac...illing-to-talk

I found this paragraph particularly amusing:

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

At NHRA events NHRA a certified spec pulley(s) should be handed to the FX racers and documented.

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

The lone HEMI is bye-bye for greener pasture$. Deja' Vu much?!

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

All this hoopla from guys that don't race the class about nothing. They will change the pulley and continue to race and WIN!

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Perhaps it’s time for some personal reflection about that comment Ed?

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

I've reflected and my opinions here are no less valid than anyone else that posts here! There is no requirement to compete in Stock nor Super Stock to post in this forum. Further, this thread isn't about Stock nor Super Stock!!

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

From 1320 racer. I've reflected and my opinions here are no less valid than anyone else that posts here! There is no requirement to compete in Stock nor Super Stock to post in this forum. Further, this thread isn't about Stock nor Super Stock!!

With that being said, violators should be either tarred and feathered or off to the gallows.
A couple of stern repremands or a hanging or two will fix the problem quickly. Racers take heed!

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

The NHRA hasn’t been that sanctioning body in decades and our society hasn’t either for about 20 years.

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

All this hoopla from guys that don't race the class about nothing.


I've reflected and my opinions here are no less valid than anyone else that posts here! There is no requirement to compete in Stock nor Super Stock to post in this forum.

Kinda talkin' outta both sides of yer mouth there ain't ya Ed?

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Nope, telling it like it is, the TRUTH and the FACTS!

What those guys did in no way effected 99.99% of those posting here and when those guys stage their car again, 99.9% of those posting here will not be in the other lane EVER!

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Including you?

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Correct but unlike most of the comments here, I applauded those guys, they played the gray area of the rule book and will continue to do so!

As the OP stated...

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

You willingness to cheat to win displays a total lack of integrity and says much about your character as a man.

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

As previously stated...

You can say the same about many of your heros and competitors :p

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

My disappointment is with the punishment or lack of.

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

why?

The NHRA fined them as they saw fit, docked them points and changed the pulley size. Racing goes on!!

But

1. It doesn't effect you.
2. you don't race that class.
3. you have no say in how the NHRA conducts business.

There are no victims here only willing participants.

That said, I've learned long ago that we are here for a good time, not a long time and I'm not going to waste my time, my life trying to change things I think are wrong, especially if it doesn't effect me directly!

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Yes this does affect us
Nhra has gotten soft as they explained that there not looking to throw out people
Here?s the problem Ed
Rule is rules they should be followed
The old standard was you got some time off for blatant illegal offenses
6 months to one year
Nhra is not policing at that standard anymore
So is the same standard for us common folks ?
Who pay professional engine builders to make sure we are good
The factory on x and shootout classes are sportsman classes
I feel bad for anyone who lost to these cars that were caught
Carry on

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

James, while I agree with your comments about the NHRA, we'll agree to disagree that this particular rules infraction in this class and NHRA's response to it, effects you.

That said, I don't feel bad for anyone that lost to these guys/cars, as I stated, there are no victims here only willing participants. Do you think the next time they are in the opposite lane anyone of their competitors is going to refuse to run them? The answer is not one!

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

I'm more confused, did they make larger pulleys or just claim the wrong engine?
Both are wrong and is not a gray area but cheating. One can be "oops used wrong note" the other is blatant in your face cheating to win and deserves a much harsher penalty.

NHRA Technical Specifications
For
2019 Chevrolet Motors


Issued: 1/26/19 PC
Revised: 2/14/19 PC 1/1/20 PC, 2/12/2020, 1/1/21, 2/12/2020, 1/5/2021, 4/23/21, 6/29/2021, 12/3/21, 12/16/21, 9/18/22, 1/1/2023

HP Disp C.R. Ind. Make Model/Transmission Manifold R.R. Lifter Head Notes



600 350 12.50 Supercharged Magnuson 60-02-00-015 1.80 H/R 66.0 2,3,6,7,A

630 350 12.50 Supercharged Magnuson 60-02-00-015 1.90 S/R 66.0 2,4,6,7,A

Notes

3 = Supercharged Magnuson pn# 50-00-26-002 3.350 inch pulley, lower pulley 8.00, jackshaft pulley 32 teeth, rotor pulley 34 teeth

4 = Supercharged Magnuson pn# 50-00-26-002 3.350 inch pulley, lower pulley 8.00, jackshaft pulley 34 teeth, rotor pulley 32 teeth

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Had a larger than normal 32 teeth rear sprocket. When I saw all the other copo cars have a totally enclosed rear belt guard this year we figured something was fishy. And it was on way more cars than got caught, and from two different engine suppliers. I have to remind myself more than once that when I'm complaining about anything at the track I am complaining about privilege problems. What ALL those guys did is not what we would expect fellow sportsman to do in our eyes, but this does not make them evil people. Yeah I would liked to have seen much harsher out come but that's for more of my own selfishness reasons. I'm I gonna walk over and do the normal small talk as before with these guys? I hope I can keep taking the high road "which apparently is the one less traveled" but time will tell. The black eye on the ones who got caught and the ones who did not is by far worse than the $2500 and 100 points. Judgement by our peers is not nearly as important than judgement from the man above. We all can always strive to better at everything we do in life. Hopefully these classes can move on from this, as I think the FX cars are the coolest thing going, but that's just my 2cents. There will only be 4 us racing at Maple grove this weekend so if your there please stop by the pits and check them out. We will be parked bottom of the hill from the staging lanes on the left.

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Not knowing anything about those combos...
I'm a little confused now...

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

I have watched this thread and I am amazed at several of the opinions expressed.
In my opinion which is just that an opinion, anyone who cheats knowingly just for advantage trying to win fame and fortune has a basic character flaw.
I also can not believe NHRA did not come down much harder on those caught as discussed in this thread.
That says a great deal about NHRA management?s character also.
I currently believe there is cheating going on in all of the sportsmen categories and NHRA does not seem to care.
I also think safety has been compromised since tech seems to no longer exist.
I just competed at an unnamed Division Race and witnessed several blatant safety violations in the staging lanes as we prepared to run.
One competitor made a pass in a roadster without a head and neck restraint, neck collar, head sock, or helmet drape. Another made a pass with the parachute attachment to the car dangling down behind the body.
Both of those things were easily spotted by many in the lanes.
Both should have been required by the rules in the rule book.
I am just very disappointed in NHRA for many reasons currently.
Just my 2 cents.
Rick Cates
Canyon TX

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

I suspect because NHRA changed the rule right after they got caught, there is way more to the story and we will likely never know unless someone spills the beans from 1 of the stanfield cars. My guess is in 30 days the fines will be lifted and the points deduction will stay.

Maybe, a big Maybe someone forgot to update the rules and let everyone know at the first of the year. again maybe.

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Wrong Ed. Geoff Turk/ Alex Laughlin is one.

This went on for a year and a half and clearly an NHRA tech mishandling of the situation which affects all of us. Why they chose to save face now is anyones guess. Seeing the lack of integrity displayed by too many racers and NHRA's refusal to enforce the rules , I do believe in what Geoff did. United we stand, divided we fall. The only thing NHRA seems to care about is their wallet

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

time will tell if I'm right or wrong, right now racer saying they won't is a knee jerk reaction!

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Kind of reads like the rules and tech inspectors may not realize that when the pulley on the back end of the jackshaft is bigger it means more overdrive even if the 32 and 34 tooth pulley counts are still correct.

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Makes you wonder about their prostock program and past championships.

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Hey Ed (1320racer), can you please point out that gray area in the NHRA Rulebook those guys found and played in (the specific age and section number please, as all I see is either black writing on white pages or white writing on black headings.

The only gray in the book can be found in some pics, many diagrams, and some ads.

Their specific rules are posted what part number Magnuson to run for what combo, pulley sizes, pulley locations and tooth counts plus a must run as received from the manufacturer requirement without modification limitation (even adding the custom hiding covers actually appears to violate that rule if attached to the part).

There is also a specific rule that also says in part and I will not quote it from the book but simply state the expressed item (if something does not state accepted or prohibited in the rules, then assume it is prohibited, ask tech first).

In their class or not, we are dues paying members of an Association (the last letter in NHRA), and our reputation as members, along with records, and stats recorded, events won and competition conducted are all sullied when mutiple people aim to cheat or find gray where it simply does not exist..

And in this particular case there was no gray, but multiple violations, by either engine/car builders, crew or teams. But the rules they were racing under was very specific at each event conducted.

Larger and/or Smaller pulleys, different sizing, different number of teeth, and or reversing the pulley(s) (or otherwise modifying the as supplied Magnuson of a specific part number called out in the rules notes 3 and 4 was specifically Prohibited under the published ruleset fir the class...Period. End of story.

And therefore a violation in each case, though the investigation is still ongoing (according to NHRA stating no comment to media), as are any filed appeals still yet to be completed.

You have your opinion and morals (or lack thereof IMHO brother), I have mine, we are in different race classes...And I like it that way!

If you ever truly find that "gray area to play in" in that rulebook, please point it out to me as I am the slowest of the slowest class (at least in Stock Elim.), and I could certainly afford to go a lot faster if some unknown magic gray area was deemed legal or not prohibited. (Meaning specifically ALLOWED of course).

Finding Horsepower is hard without blowers/superchargers/turbos/or other chemical/mechanical power adders, etc.

So any additional legal gray area found (within the black writing on white pages), would be a boost up. Sadly though it just does not exist except in some loose moral characters minds. Just my opinion mind you.

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Blackbird Performance posted a couple of interesting recent posts about not competing with NHRA anymore. We'll see if he sticks to his guns!

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php...ref=embed_POST

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Sorry to correct you, he said a ton of extremely well written deep introspection (words and feelings), I highly respect but he never mentioned parting with NHRA racing per se at all. He did say that Blackbird Performance would be attempting to race harder, but that it just would not be in the particular class of Factory-X.

There is a lot more to just car and driver involved at that level of competition and class (and it is really hard to tell the cast of characters without a program also in an unsigned- but very well intentioned, thought out (full of grace both giving and receiving), and heartfelt social media post).

Well done to the writer. I cannot certainly blame them for their decisions whatsoever for whatever reasons, will miss seeing their participation in the class, but you must respect their reasoning and personal reasons.

The old saying comes to mind..."But there, for the Grace of God, go I."

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Here's the more specific & correct wording from one of them post. Yes, you're correct, he didn't state he's parting with NHRA racing.

"As I?ve often suggested to those who saw it this way, we will no longer compete in these heads up Factory Showdown or Factory X classes in the NHRA."

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

For the first time?, all eyes will be on Factory X at the next event, and the Blackbird car decides to walk away. They were running very strong at Indy. They have the driver. The class now has everyone's full attention. Hopefully they reconsider and go out there and kick some butt.

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

of course he will

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

My understanding is he is done with Factory X, but still has customer cars running in FSS.

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Was the roadster 150mph+? If not, a hans is not required I don't think

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this mess is the outsized influence the manufacturers have.

While racing in Pro Stock and PST, I saw serious pressure campaigns a lot. Some from chassis builders, some from the OEMs. All were for changes that weren't needed and didn't make sense other than to certain parties.

I saw the same thing in Stock and Super Stock. The one that sticks in my mind was an over 30 year old letter being "found" allowing certain models to run hood scoops that never happened on the production line. I was heavy into restoration at the time, a tremendous amount of research was going on, and nothing was found to prove it ever happened. Until those letters appeared.

Harley decided they wanted to go drag racing with an engine that was not - and could not - be competitive. I never saw the exact amount, but for enough money, they bought the class and were allowed to bring something totally different which was not available to other competitors.

So I'm not sure at all, but it's entirely possible in my mind that a "we're not going to spend money if we can't win" campaign was put into place and somebody agreed just to not look at certain parts. I can't blame GM solely for this since I knew of all the manufacturers making that statement at one time or another in various classes. Why did they now look? No idea. Maybe more money was asked for and the parties are now not happy with each other.

I almost feel guilty at slamming the NHRA twice in one day. Almost.

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

I was wondering the same thing. Could it be because he had a different engine builder than the other cheaters?

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Yes it was and by the rule book a head and neck restraint was required. A neck collar would have made it less obvious.
He had none of the requirements.
I was amazed he was allowed to make a pass and the car with the parachute attachment loop was very obvious to anyone from behind.
I could not believe it.
Just my observation.
Rick Cates
Canyon TX

Re: Fine them and then make it legal. Wowwser
 

Nobody has mentioned Tony Scott whom it is reported "was disqualified from the event for violating the Factory Stock Showdown supercharger overdrive rules".