Re: Original hemi dart information
Don Grotheer's Baracuda through the windshield of Doug Potter's car hauler truck. I think I see the front fender of another car being towed by Grotheer's hauler. I see a Hurst sticker on it.
Wayne. http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/k...ONGROTHEER.jpg |
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Mem,,,,,
At the beginning of 1970, Don Grotheer put the BO29 Hemi Barracuda into Pro/Stock (see the wide slicks). Also, he was doing those Performance Car Clinics for Chrysler in the mid-west and southwest. The car on the trailer, is the 1969 1/2 Plymouth Road Runner 440-6 (6-barrel), which he ran in SS/G. pc |
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Anyone have pictures of the Tignanelli "Shadowoods" '68 Barracuda?
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A little off the subject, but does anybody know what happened to Darryl Sweet, who worked for Don & Joann Grotheer? I think Don told me Darryl worked for Sox & Martin after Don quit.
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Wow, amazing rare pics. Guys you are making a great contribution to revealing the history of so many cars here. THANKS.
any more pics of Gene's (O'Neill) Speedshop/Automotive dart out there anywhere? |
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http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/2307/gohummerii.jpg M68 P.S. Thanks for all the new pix! |
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M68 |
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Hemi Moose and M68,,,,,,,,,,
The Babe Ruth Team of the 68' Hemi Photo's No one can top you guys,,,,,,,,,:) Moose, Notice the '4' (July 1968 photo's) Shirley Shahan Charlie Castaldo Bill Stiles Ed Miller (red w/silver, no lettering yet) All were their,,,,,1968 Super Stock Magazine Nationals at New York National Speedway. In all, 16 Hemi A-Body Hemi's were in attendance. A very good show that weekend... pc |
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Post #943,
1970 photo Clyde Robillard Baton Rouge, Louisiana Pro/Stock (4-speed) sponsor,,,,,,,Standard Motors Dodge,,,,,,Baton Rouge Thats Larry Coopers old (SS/BA) car. Larry out of West Monroe, Louisiana,,,,,,,,,,, Larry ran it in 68' and 69'. Set the SS/BA MPH record in both years. Larry out of Northwest Louisiana, Clyde from Baton Rouge. |
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of the better torche jobs. The people who did the work sure were not body men. |
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Many of the crew at Hurst Performance Facility were not
Chrysler employees,,,, Some were part-timers, just hired for that project. Hurst even had a hard time finding qualified mechanics. Several of the Chrysler regulars helped out, after working their regular Chrysler shift. Richard Chrysler of Hurst Performance was supposed to supervise the conversion project, but,,,,,,,,, It did not go without its problems,,,,,,,, * front-end trajectory * steering problems * loose front-end parts * improper manual transmission shifting * unfastened body parts * loose steering columns pc |
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http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8064/mr5and5002.jpg M68 |
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Jack, can you tell us about the Lexan covers over your Barracuda's grill? Did you gain any noticeable mph? Were the covers your idea or Ed Miller's? Lastly, how'd you pass tech with them? http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1637/jackarnewb.jpg Regards, M68 |
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Not sure they gave me any additional help. took them off because we had over heating problems, which turned out to be radiator,never put covers back on. |
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Jack,
That photo of your Barracuda was from Dover Drag Strip,,, NED 1 Pro/Stock Circuit, April 1970. The first week you got Ed Miller. The second week, he nipped you in the Semi Finals at Dover. also in attendance there; Final Results; Winner,,,,,,,,,,,, Ed Miller 10.20 @ 138.50 Runner-Up,,,,,, Bob Banning Jr. 10.60 @ 132.00 3rd Place,,,,,,, Jack Arnew 4th Place,,,,,,,,Ken Montgomery 5th Place,,,,,,,,Allen Phillips All Hemi's,,,,,,,,,what a beautiful Sunday,,,,,,,,,No Chevy's,,,:) |
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A quick update on my car boils down to this. I've followed up my last lead on the possibility it could have been the Wild Fire Dart, spoke with the original owner of it, got a bunch of pictures & came to the realization it's not mine, because of some of the mods don't match my car. So I'm back to square one, in the early 80's when Lou Vignonia owned it . I've let it rest for awhile, but am ready to continue again. With so many known cars that have come to light lately with some pretty good history on them, you would think my car should have popped up somewhere. I'm open to all suggestions. When Lou purchased the car, he & his son Jimi remember it being silver & red. Lou had Paul Pittman remove all the paint on it with stripper & had it painted white, as you've seen in my previous posts. So all it's previous paints were lost. I've spoken with Mr. Pittman & he doesn't recall any of the colors under the silver & red. Now, when Tim Hennesey purchased it from Lou he again stripped the car of paint, & sand blasted everything else. So all traces of it's colors are gone previous to 1982. This is an early car, #7, auto, never had a stick in it or a clutch pedal for a clutch flite. the only body mods done were a set of inner tubs that were installed. Outers are original, along with frame rail location. It did have a Lakewood bolt in bar installed at one time. Give it some thought guys & let me know if you come up with anything. On a different note, Paul C. posted a list of Canadian run Lo cars, but I don't see John Petrie included on it. I thought he ran an original LO for a couple years before he went to PS in 1970 with a Challenger. liteweight Daryl |
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Hemi Moose
Thanx for the info. My car definately is not any of Castaldo's 2 cars. The first one( the 4 spd) was rolled in E town.The car was stripped of usable parts & eventually scrapped. The second car, an auto, is alive & well & residing on the east coast. It has been updated to todays SS/AH status & runs the occasional NHRA event. There are a couple pictures of it on this thread. It's black, & has had the quarter panels replaced with the standard Dart wheel well opening panels. On my car the trans tunnel or floor pan has never been cut, modified, replaced in any way, shape or form. There has never been a clutch Z shaft bracket mounted on the DS framerail, or hole through the inner apron for same. The only tin or fiberglass that did not come with this car when it rolled out of Hurst's facility are the trunk lid which Hennesey replaced because the original was pinned instead of hinges, & the inner wheel tubs which have been widened to the frame rails. An original set of inner tubs were installed by Hennessey against the rails. Paul, tag----- your it. Let's see what you have. The suspense is killing me lightweight |
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I was able to get a hold of John Petrie himself last year out in BC. He says he never had a 68 Hurst car ever. Ran the 65 then B-bodies late 60s , then the Cuda, Challenger, Demon in Prostock in the early 70s. I know John is listed in Schild's book as an owner but the man himself says he never did. Class act Petrie was, up here his Supercar Clinics were well attended and everyone really enjoyed them.
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Tag,,,,,,,,,,,I'm it,,,,,,,,,,,
Lets try to break this down,,,,,,,,,,,,#07 car,,,,,,,,automatic. One of the first cars to be taken off the lot at Hurst,,,,,,, From some digging, supposedly the boys at Van Dyke Dodge, at Eleven Mile Road, just down the road from the Hurst Facility were monitoring the project. From little tid-bits of information, they got one of the first ones. Yet,,,,,,,,,,,,,who did it go to,,,???? The dealership, service guys, a mechanic racer....? I bet Daryl's car was an original Michigan car... pc |
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daryl and i agree that his car is not the the castaldo car ,i do rember daryl's car being in our shop as well. i did have a dart in our barn that said charlie castaldo on the side and had no trans tunnel with beat to death quarter panels, i wonder what car that was? i know my dad had quite a few hemi cars over the years although dad and uncle george only ever raced the 64 and 65 belvedere's, what dart did he have? |
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I feel guilty bout abandoning my thread here for about 4 months so I fiqure I'Ill make up for it some by sharing a little info on a lil LO car I used to own before my current car.
In 96 I was looking for an original LO Dart & came across a 2 line ad in National Dragster advertising . As it turns out, the owner was Steve O'Neil from MA area. Went down to check it out, & verified it was an original LO.It looked like a beat up ol race car & it was just plain ugly, but it had the potential to be a good car. So I had it shipped up to Canada & started on it. I started sanding the car down to find a base color of silver with an orange inlay on the sides, and blue stripes across the top. Needless to say, what I had stumbled into. So I contacted Mr. Landy hisself, & after over a year of monthly conversations with him, sending him pics of my car, I was finally able to convince him enough to come up here to Canada to look at it. Picked him & his wife Jeanne up at the airport in my 70 4 spd.Hemicuda & brought him out to my place. I'll tell ya, there was nothing cooler than driving Dick around town in the passenger seat of that cuda, with him chompin on a cigar, telling me about the ol days of racing. Something I'll never forget.Long story, short, he documented my beater LO car as his original 4 spd Hemi Dart. But there was something I didn't understand about my car. It was tagged as an auto. not a 4 speed. His response went something like this. He ordered 2 cars at the same time, he wanted one as an auto, the other as a stick, & he wanted them right now. Dick was informed that there were only automatics available at that time. So he told Hurst to ship one auto by truck to his shop, BUT, for the other car, take one off the line as a completed body only, sans engine & trans, throw the clutch pedals etc, in the trunk, & ship it by 747 to his shop. So, it arrived at his shop where he converted it to a stick car before it ever turned a wheel under it's own power. This car to this day has never had an auto in it, even tho it was tagged as one from day one. Interesting little fact, is, this car is the #5 car, 2 serial numbers earlier than the car I'm now trying to find the history on for the last 7 years with no luck yet. liteweight |
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Nice pics, Liteweight! I'll never forget the first time I saw the Landy car in your garage and got to sit in it. Hemi Moose, I'm sure Daryl is going by sequential VIN when he refers to #7 car. Isn't the Gene Snow car the lowest VIN known or was it Dan Morgan's (?)...can't remember. I'm pretty sure the first 50 had sequential VINs.
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I have a feeling we've met sometime. Have we? It's time you come clean. You know who I am, but I don't know who you are Thanx for the Car Craft link. It is probably the most acurate article I've read on these cars, but it isn't without some flaws. To answer your question on my reasoning about the #7 car is because as marfen has wrote. Thanx Dave. I'm not going by serial #s, just sequence of cars built, & up to now the earliest car I know of is Dave Morgans car. Not sure what the #'s are on the Gene Snow car right now. Since there are so many conflicting lists &numbers floating around about my car, it's time I put it straight. Seems the only way I can continue on it's history. LO23M8B297XXX fender tag matches the shipping numbers on the rad cradle & trunk rail. Your right, this car has had alot of controversal info laid on it, & it is for that exact reason, I'm having such a b!tch of a time solving it's back ground. When I purchased it, I was under the impression that all the ground work was done, history wise, but things on it just didn't add up. So, I started digging & at least have confirmed 100% for sure it's not any of Castaldo's cars. As far as Jimi is concerned, he is now convinced my car is not the car with the Castaldo doors on it. Lou could have owned that auto car for awhile, & it makes sense with the messed up quarters, & cut out trans tunnel. I have pix of his auto car running A/MP@ E town , & the rear wheel wells are cut up & flared. He also ran a four speed in it, thus the trans tunnel work. I have spoke with a crew member for Castaldo, Charlie Licata, on several occasions, & he confirmed the trans. tunnel surgery on that car. They tried running a clutch flite in it for one race, but it was not competitive so the stick went in. They cut the tunnel because it was easier to service the trans & clutch. Licata also told me Castaldo's crashed stick car landed up behind their shop for awhile before it was scrapped. As far as the Vin & tags on his stick car, I can't comment on whether they stayed on the car when it was scrapped or not, because I don't know. This I do know tho, 100%, is that my car is an original LO car when it left Chrysler. It has it's original VIN tag, fender tag, DS door decal &, shipping numbers on the rad cradle & trunk rail that have NOT BEEN TAMPERED WITH. The fender tag decodes as an auto car, & has never had a clutch pedal or 4 spd. in it, EVER. liteweight ps you have keen eyes, you weren't supposed to pick that car up in the background. I didn't think anyone would. Not working or playing with nothing right now due to a work place injury. Not sure when I'll be able to get back at it. Here is a pic of the last pass Castaldo's 4 spd car made. I will post more pix. shortly on some stuff I have. Sorry for the size, can't fiqure out how to make em larger. |
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"LO23M8B297861" wouldn't this be # 61 ?
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Chrysler did not SERIAL OR SEQUENCE NUMBER these cars in to be specific SS cars. All the SS cars were LO23M8B, but the SEQUENCE NUMBERS started after the last regular production car. IE: the car before the SS run, 297852 could have been a slant six 4 door car. The first SS car did not have a serial number of 297800. They made a run of 50 cars for the first batch & started with the last regular regular production car which could have been 297852,3 or 4. My guestimation on calling my car the #7 car is derived from the earliest SS car known to exist. My car could be the #8 car, depending on the numbers of Gene Snows car.All the LO23M8B2978_ _ cars are sequential in serial numbers starting after THAT first car,whatever it is . Here is another couple of shots of Castaldo's stick car. As you can see, it's twisted up pretty good. Doors are not salvageable, even by todays market. liteweight |
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Here is a shot of Castaldo's auto car when it was converted to MP. You can see the new paint scheme, & lettering on the doors. Also note the flared wheel wells.
liteweight |
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These pixs are of Castaldo's auto car also. Note the color change. He sold the car to Ralph Costello who campaigned the car breifly & changed the color scheme again. The last picture is of the same car in it's present state. Note the quarters have been changed to standard Dart openings. I have seen this car & spoke with the current owner & verified some of the mods that were on the car previous to his ownership that match the Castaldo Auto car. Mark J. has also verified this as the same car.
So, as far as the Vignonia ownership of THIS car, with the change of colors etc, I highly doubt it was in his barn. Also, again when I spoke with Charlie Licata, Castaldo's crew member verified that he only owned 2 Hemi Darts. On was crashed, the other converted & is on the right coast today. I can't explain why he remembers a car with red & silver, & Castaldo's name on the doors, but my car is not any of Castaldo's cars. liteweight |
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http://imageshack.us/ After you've located the files you want to upload, make sure you select from the drop down menu (located just to the right of Image resize text) "Do not resize" before you click on the UPLOAD NOW button. After the pix are uploaded, a new web page will appear; on that page you will see on the bottom right of your screen just below "Get links and Codes for All Images" your links to your photos. Using your mouse, left-click the box once to highlight the links, then right-click and choose copy from the menu that opens; then paste into your message. After that, highlight, copy and paste each individual URL each photo into yellow "Insert Image" icon in the toolbar and it'll appear in your message. Believe me, the process is a lot easier than it sounds. If you know how to powershift a four-speed, you can do this. You do know how to powershift, don't ya? :) If you need more help with this process just ask. M68 |
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Not repairable would be the top end crash of the T & R Automotive car from the Philly area, once upon a time at Englishtown circa 1971. http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8126/trautomotive1.jpg "Look ma, no roll bar." :) However, the T & R team wasn't deterred by this setback and were back in action with a similar car just a couple of weeks later, winning Super Stock Eliminator at Raceway Park. http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/9...utomotive2.jpg M68 |
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Sam Carroll's car painted the same as Sam Punnity's which I drove for SP some tine, and latter purchased from him,but never was in Carroll's car. Looks like Sox&Martin sold another of their cars to him, but just a guess on my part The deal was purchaser had to change paint in some way so Pannuty removed the wide blue stripes running longways to red. Looks like SC did the same. |
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liteweight ps Nope, never powershifted before |
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M68 |
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I didn't think you'd take me seriously bout that. lightweight |
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M68 |
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Oh, by the way...
Happy 100th page of this thread! M68 |
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Special FX care of yours truly and Photoshop...
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7...castaldofx.jpg M68 |
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Now I gotta ensure I get the 1000th post. just cause liteweight |
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I think it would be helpful if Mark J piped in here to fill us in on the sequence of Vins for the various runs built of these cars.
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