CLASS RACER FORUM - Heads-Up Runs

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Re: Heads-Up Runs

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrateCamaro (Post 142206)

Jim Rountree

So your telling me that when there is class run off''s and theres 9 cars and you know that your in the middle of the pack you run wide open in the first round of class even though you KNOW you have the guy covered, lets say by 3 tenths? Why? Why would you show the other guys in your class what you have? SO they can go back and find more ET? Speak softly and carry a big stick is what I was taught and by the looks of how this post is going everyone else agrees. Im always bagging 1 1/2 to 2 tenths when I bracket race and when its heads up time...throw a tunup in and go. But I guess for the purists in the class thats a nono. Those same guys dial everything tight and run it out the door every time when they are bracket racing....never scrub the brakes, never burp the throttle. Trapped in the days when there was 29 SS/L cars to run against and when Christ was a cowboy running the Crondek Timing equipment. 5 years ago in Norwalk Ohio at a IHRA National there was only going to be 2 GT/DA cars racing as of thursday night...friday while we were in the lanes making the first time run 2 more pulled in. We dumped at the 1000 and scrubbd the brakes to a 10.40. The two guys that pulled in late grabbed a qualifying sheet, seen that we were the slowest and never Radial'd or tuned up the cars. Guess what...they were both out in the first round of class because of that, They had all the GT/DA cars covered by a tenth or more easy with a tuneup and tire change. So is it smart to lift....?

When I was bracket racing sometimes I would dump if a faster car blew by me at the stripe.

In over 40 years of class racing I have never dumped nor let off at 1000ft. I always ran it out the back door. Cause that's drag racing.

Let me ask you a question: if you can run 1.14 under and they hit you with 4hp can't you still run about 1 under, if they hit you with 10 hp couldn't you still run under the index....sure you could.

JimR

Re: Heads-Up Runs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Carr (Post 142193)

JIm is right, mostly. Every run (heads-up runs, anyway) should be flat out, to me. But, if I'm in a heads-up with someone, and know that my car can run -1.15 (or more) and am behind with no chance to catch my opponent, I, and most anyone, is going to lift, try and save the HP factor for my combo, and hope my opponent does run fast enough to get hit. I, and 90+% of the other racers out there, are NOT going to take a HP hit AND lose the race. It's like losing twice in one race.

Mike,

In that instance you would be right, there is no sense in shooting yourself in the foot on a losing cause.

JimR

Re: Heads-Up Runs

Treesavoy,

Its guys like you that run it out the door all the time when its not nessisary and don't think about what NHRA/IHRA will do to the HP rating. Its guys like you that made the 300hp combo in super stock impossible to run anymore. Thank god guys are getting smart and are running 400 combo's and low HP 350 combo's because the 300hp combo would be re reated to 400hp by now. Pretty imbarrasing getting spanked in class by a 305 or a low hp 350. The 400 is the worst of them all. They are 410 inches by the time they are .070 over and have almost 12.0:1 compression because someone who does the blueprinting for NHRA doesnt know the proper chamber size of a 400 chevy.:rolleyes:

Re: Heads-Up Runs

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrateCamaro (Post 142404)

Treesavoy,

Its guys like you that made the 300hp combo in super stock impossible to run anymore.

Most engine builders including myself can still make the 350/200/322 a pretty respectable piece. It just takes a little more work than it did in the past. I would much rather qualify 1.1 under with the 350/300/322 knowing that it is somewhat closer to the proper factor than run the soft stuff. Also the 400 used to be rated (if my memory is correct) 25 hp. less. And like you said is still a very good piece of equipment. .

Re: Heads-Up Runs

SSENGINEGUY

I totally agree with you that you can make the 300hp combo work. But really at the end of the day it don't matter what casting number head you have...041/441/624...ect they are all the same when they get back from being transformed into an epoxy masterpiece. Ports are the same, chambers are close to being the same (041 a tad smaller) so really the engine is basically the same. Now days a good 255 will run circles around a 300. Ya they might make a little less torque because they are down 1 point in compress (big deal) but the engines are exactly the same but rated less. And the 400...a good one has to make 650hp and its rated less than a 300/327hp combo that will make 625hp. Ya im sure that guys are making more hp now but they are probably sacrificing tork for hp numbers and they slow down like crazy in the heat of the summer. Just my 2 cents.:).

Re: Heads-Up Runs

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith ohanesian (Post 142346)

Buff Daddy for d1 director!

Keith, I don't know about all that...might upset a few people in that line of work. Hell, I can tick people off easy enough as it is. lol

Re: Heads-Up Runs

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrateCamaro (Post 142412)

Ports are the same, chambers are close to being the same (041 a tad smaller) so really the engine is basically the same.

Exactly! And that is the reason they should be rated very close, if not the same. That is one of the reasons for the dumping and worrying about saving hp. Trying to save an already too low hp rating. Not just these particular 350 combos but many others like the 400 which is still a very competitive piece after adding quite a few hp. and dropping a class or two. There are quite a few other combos out there that could add 25 hp too and they would still run over 1.1 under. When these are brought into line (where they should have been in the first place) the "dash to hit the brakes" will come to an end. Until then: May the best bunny hop.

Re: Heads-Up Runs

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrateCamaro (Post 142404)

I don't care if I get HP just as long as I can run under the index.

Please don't confuse me with someone that gives a crap about Chevy HP, I didn't give you hp, one of your chevy buddies did that!

JimR

Re: Heads-Up Runs

I feel that you could STOP 1000 ft. heads up racing in one of two ways. (A) raise the 1.15 and 1.40 triggers to a point where we could see how fast these cars really are. It's not fair to penalize a racer who is doing it the american way (dedication, perseverance, never quit, do it better than the next guy, and sacrifice). If you are the best at anything in this world, you are or will sacrifice something in life! I never saw a football team get penalized for putting 40 or 50 points up on the board. I cant imagine a quarterback having a man deep and wide open, thinking I can't throw it that far or I'm going to get my program hit (strap 10 pounds on my reciever next game). That sounds kinda stupid don't it! I don't think people would watch it! (B...not my pick but would work) They could implement a program that would trigger at each segment of the track, and not just the finish line. I don't see a driver lifting at 60 or 330.
The problem with lowering the index is, that it hurts the little guy...and we need the little guy. We need to grow the sport, not run them off. Slower cars need room to dial under as well the fast guys! I love the sport and am preparing a SS/LA entry for myself. I can say that it will be my privilege to meet and compete with all of you drivers! Thank you, Wade P.S. WON'T BE AFFRAID TO THROW THE LONG BALL! Won't be fast enough to worry about it anyway

Re: Heads-Up Runs

I am new to this game, so I will ask this probably stupid question anyway. Can someone please explain the adding horsepower thing. How does that hurt you? Does it change your factor number, and you have to carry more weight to slow you down? Also if someone runs far enough under to get slapped with horsepower, does it affect anyone running that combo, or just that particular car? Are you then labeled everywhere you go? Hopefully someone can better explain this to the newbie. Thanks.