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-   -   Another bogus hp rating. (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=24692)

junior barns 03-27-2010 12:14 PM
Re: Another bogus hp rating.
 
I know it's it's a DUMB ? but both Greg Hill and Evan Smith refered to the 1.5 factor. Can someone answer it please.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two people now have mentioned the 1.5hp to factory rating to be above average. An engine that averages 500HP and has a top number of, say, 540HP is the 1.5 # used on the 500# or the 540#?????

Alan Roehrich 03-27-2010 12:28 PM
Re: Another bogus hp rating.
 
It's the NHRA rated HP. So an engine rated at 350HP by NHRA needs to make 525HP.

junior barns 03-27-2010 12:41 PM
Re: Another bogus hp rating.
 
But is the 525 in your example an average accross a range or just a top number??

ps thanks in advance

Alan Roehrich 03-27-2010 12:42 PM
Re: Another bogus hp rating.
 
That would be the peak HP number.

junior barns 03-27-2010 12:44 PM
Re: Another bogus hp rating.
 
Thats what I was looking for.

Thanks again

Charley Downing 03-27-2010 12:45 PM
Re: Another bogus hp rating.
 
Bruce the non Super CJ makes way less then 800hp to the rear wheels. What is you point.

Alan Roehrich 03-27-2010 12:57 PM
Re: Another bogus hp rating.
 
It's interesting how people throw "torque" around.

HP=Torque x RPM / 5252

So HP is nothing other than a mathematical derivative of torque.

It's been a long time since I've seen a normally aspirated car in Stock Eliminator (especially when you get above L,M, or N) run less than about 5500 RPM stall, or leave at less than 5500 if it is a stick car.

So, 5500 RPM is above the point at which torque is a higher number than HP, as torque and HP will ALWAYS be equal at 5252 RPM, and torque will ALWAYS be greater than HP below 5252 RPM. That also means HP will ALWAYS be greater than torque above 5252 RPM.

In this modern era of efficient high stall converters that yield in excess of 2.0:1 torque multiplication at their flash stall speed, and trick clutches, when someone tells you that it is necessary to have "torque" when "moving a heavy Stock Eliminator car", remember that in order to make HP, you must have torque to begin with, since torque is the actual force, and HP is merely a mathematical derivative of the force called torque.

Two engines that have "X" HP at 6000 RPM have the same exact amount of torque at 6000 RPM, regardless of how many cubic inches they displace, what their bore/stroke ratio is, or what their rod/stroke ratio is.

james schaechter 03-27-2010 02:10 PM
Re: Another bogus hp rating.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Kish (Post 177798)
You guys still don't get it. In 2010 when the factory advertises an engine makes say 300HP. It must dyno 300HP +/-3%.

Now look at the evolution of engine manufacturing and performance technology improvements over the last 40 years. Take a look at how 200ci V-6's are making as much horsepower as 400ci V8's were in the 60's. Do you really think that in Stock eliminator trim both engines have the same max power potential. If you do your morons. Current OEM technology is wringing HP out of engines the same way guys building stockers have done it for years. So an OEM engine which already comes with good valve springs, good flowing heads, roller cams, far better tuned intakes, larger TB's and a factory rating of 425HP (new car rating, not NHRAshould have an equivalent amount of inefficiency in the OEM design and power to be gained? Some of the performance vehicles offered today have tubular exhaust manifolds that rival the flow performance of a set of headers - not some junk cast iron log exhaust manifold that was designed for a utility truck 40yrs ago. Aside from the LS & LT engines from GM, prior to the CJ's and Drag Paks, what other engine combinations that have gone in the books the last 15 or so years have been able to compete when entered with the OEM advertised HP ratings? Most get submitted by someone that has no idea how NHRA's HP rating system works, the NHRA guys I doubt spend the effort to challenge an OEM submission if they think its overfactored.

I'm not defending the final numbers assigned to some of the combos as correctly factored. But if anyone thinks that they should go in with the 2010 OEM advertised HP ratings, i repeat - your a moron.
You can tell this is a slow news day....

Do the OEM numbers come from the max that the combo makes or can the Manufacturers pick the RPM they rate it at? You make this sound like they flogged it out for a number that WE as racers would chase. I would think that the Manufacturers would play the same game they always did in the past with this number.Then they could low ball the rpm pulse width, timing, etc. if they wanted to.

When they are "certified" does the certification look into this also? What if your 300hp deal makes 400 at 1000 rpm more? Does the certification process include the sniff test on the dyno?
Tim, you seem to look at this closer than I have, do you know?

Bruce Noland 03-27-2010 02:16 PM
Re: Another bogus hp rating.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley Downing (Post 177820)
Bruce the non Super CJ makes way less then 800hp to the rear wheels. What is you point.
The point is you need to keep up with these threads if you want to brow beat folks. Read some of the old threads on the CJ's and you may learn something.

Tim Kish 03-27-2010 02:49 PM
Re: Another bogus hp rating.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Noland (Post 177800)
And this little rant comes from the er uh gentleman who claimed the CJ's could never make 800 hp with those little tiny throttles. Consider the source when reading this guy's stuff. He, of all people, is no positon to be calling people morons.
Bruce - you find me a dyno sheet from a Cobra Jet Stocker that makes over 800HP and I'll issue a formal apology to anyone wrongly accused of being a moron. Until then my statements stand.


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