Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Bernie, are you saying you think a combination should be hit twice if two different cars go 1.25 under on the same weekend?

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

If he's not, won't, I will. Hell yes, if two like combinations run far enough under at the same race/weekend that ENGINE combo should be hit twice.

RJ

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

The problem with that is both cars are running "unadjusted" by the AHFS for that weekend. It's not like one car earns the AFHS adjustment, they get adjusted, then the second car goes out and earns another adjustment.

As much as some combinations need to be reigned in pretty quickly, two hits in one weekend is pretty unfair.

Example: Car 3xxx goes to Bowling Green and runs 1.25 under, while car 2xxx, the exact same combination, goes to Atlanta and goes 1.27 under. Either run would earn 4.25% under the new AHFS system. It certainly wouldn't be fair for them to hit that combination for 8.5%, because both cars were running in the "pre 4.25% AHFS adjustment" condition. It's not like one earned them 4.25% on Friday, they had to add the weight Saturday morning, and the second car went out and earned another 4.25% after adding the weight, or having to move up a class.

No, hitting the same combination twice in one weekend is too heavy handed, regardless of the combination. Yeah, most of the new cars need a lot of HP added to them, but it needs to be done fairly.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Alan you use the word "Fairly".......you kidding of course? What is fair about these combos that are "Fairly"?, rated at least 150hp under what they should be rated? Whats fair about that? If the AHFS is the answer (sic), why not let it work both ways? If a combo gets too much hp placed on it, then according to the AHFS, they could get hp taken off by not running so fast. It is suppose to work both ways, whats good for the goose.......now I think thats "Fair". You can't make a good agruement out of being "Fair" to the new cars, since this problem would not of come up without the total loss of what ever integrity the decision makers had. As Bernie said "just follow the money"

Fairly......yeah I got your Fairly!!

Later RJ

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

RJ,
Just because the factories and NHRA did something wrong to us, that doesn't mean we have to sink to their level. That's the same reasoning some people use to justify the new cars.

How many times have you heard "well, GM had those under rated LT-1 cars, and then they got the LT-1 approved in the 98 Firebird, so we should get to screw the GM guys"? Or "payback is a beeyotch, you GM guys got over on us, so now we're going to get over on you"?

Do we REALLY want all of class racing to sink to THAT level? I don't.

We race an old school 69 Camaro in A/SA and AA/SA, so we have as much to lose to the new cars as anyone. But I wouldn't think it was fair if our combination got hit twice in the same weekend, so I'm not going to say it would be fair to anyone else, just because they race a new car. I can't bring myself to sink to that level.

Besides, let's be honest here. The AHFS is meaningless when it comes to the new factory race cars. All the factories have to do is change one or two blueprint specs every year, and they have a whole new combination. They don't even have to actually build cars anymore, they just have to put parts in the catalog and sell them. It's a new combination every year at the stroke of a pen. Anytime they get hit too hard, just get out the old pen and the catalog, and call NHRA.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

RJ, you are off your pills again.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

How far underrated is a 425hp 427 '69 camaro?

200 - I know a few make more than 625.

Lots of combos are underated they have been for years.

If you can not make more than a combo is rated you will not race it.

Come on you all know the factor is about 1.3 to 1.6 times more than the NHRA rating let alone the factory rating. (depending on how far under you can go)


:-) peace

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

or 2.5-3 for the new factory cars

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Are you trying to compare the 450 rated 12.5:1 Viper engine to the horsepower rating of a 427/425? The most recent Viper was rated at 600 horsepower and thats with 10.2:1 compression, a smaller cam, and a smaller intake. Not three days ago someone made the comment of how bad the 6.4 Hemi was because it was 2 points down from the 6.1. Using your factor.....1.3 x 600 = 780. 1.6 x 600 = 960 and thats with the factory specs. 800-900 horsepower is not out of the question with these motors with a good engine builder and tuner. People have gotten close with the factory specs.

I'm all on board with the Challengers because at this point its clear they are not going anywhere but its just funny how some people are actually trying to justify these horsepower ratings. A Challenger with a Viper motor on steriods? Awesome!! It's definitely going to be cool to see these cars going down the track in Stock as short lived as it may be. Just personally don't see the fun of running a combo grossly under-factored. No one is looking at these guys, (besides each other), and saying "wow, thats awesome, you guys did a good job."

No matter what side of the fence you stand on, you have to look at these numbers and just shake your head and laugh. At the end of the day, that's all anyone on the starting line is doing when they go down the track.

Re: New AHFS 2011
 

Chad, didn't you get 10 or 20 taken off your combo? What a system. If I had gotten 20 off my old car, I would still have it. I think you and the Sammy got the benefit of that.