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-   -   Billet cams and lifter supply (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=83377)

Billy Nees 11-03-2022 07:45 AM
Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Hoven (Post 670289)
I guess the only solution I can think of to avoid this issue is to use a camshaft where you don't need a special set of lifters. I understand the benefits of a billet camshaft, along with the different pricy lifter options, but that's not really in my price range, so for now I make due with what I can afford. I actually found a small, family owned company out in California that sells flat tappet lifters made in the USA by Johnson Lifters. I've had very good luck with them even with my relatively square 6 cylinder camshaft profile, and plan to use them on my small block build this winter. Yes, billet cams are great, only if you can afford it along with the special lifters, even the cheap ones. It can be quite discouraging to even want to tackle building a stocker for a popular class with the knowledge that some of your competitors have cylinder heads on their engines that cost them about the same if not more than I am spending to build an entire engine. Though limited, there are combos in the guide you cannot physically get roller lifters for, so how would it be fair to allow roller lifters in all stockers? It's interesting to see how the same people that say "if you don't like that your combo doesn't accept aftermarket parts, choose a different combo" don't like being told "if you want roller lifters, either choose a roller lifter combination, or move to super stock." There's a lot of similarities with this as there are in allowing aftermarket heads for combos you "can't find head castings for anymore." If this does materialize, I would be more inclined to roll with it as long as there is an added hp if you decide to use roller lifters, but that could get a bit tedious to police. For now, I guess I'll see what I can do with a bit of "yesterday's technology" and hopefully be somewhat competitive. Plus there's a great deal of fun to be had in "scraping together" a stocker.
And for those of you who don't know Doug, he's a pretty darned smart 19 year old "kid" !

Jim Kaekel 11-03-2022 08:02 AM
Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 
[QUOTE=B Parker;670286]Jim, Why didn't I think about that. So all you guys that have an older than 85 car and need a set of lifters that are going to last. Just put your cars in a car crusher. Maybe Jim will post his phone number and start giving away his money if you can't afford a Super Stocker.

Barry: I'm just not for rules that turn Stock into Super Stock. Racers wanted unlimited valve springs....they got them. Racers wanted roller rockers (even though Clark Holroyd's stuff was legal)...and they got them too. Add to that, and now some are calling for legalizing roller lifters on applications that never came with them. What's next, 14" x 32"'s and Edelbrock intakes? Personally, I have absolutely no interest in running Super Stock...it's been literally transformed into Comp.

SDT1DYI 11-03-2022 09:51 AM
Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by john ancona (Post 670297)
Oh only a 6 months, it's now over a year now I have been waiting , so I did what all the (one more change to stock) Guy's are saying ,I built a Super stock engine to run in the mean time with the $ 650.00 dollar roller lifters while I wait for the what I think will be the $1400.00 to $ 2400.00 set . Lol
John, I thought you were going with to race SS GT class with a 350 2 barrel?
How about a 5 HP penalty for Roller cam in stock?
If a change to Roller Cams is made then change the piston rings to what ever rings you want. Spacers are get expensive as well. Oh and then for low compression motors how about making pump gas legal in stock as well. Could save some money there as well. .

Steve Teeter Stk/SS 620

Gary Parker 11-03-2022 11:11 AM
Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 
Heres my 2 cents.. I lost a motor at the beginning of 2022. A shubeck lifter broke. That did in the whole short block. Now I am trying to get the motor done for 2023. I have made many calls and talked with people who make lifters. The best one I talked to was a man at Howard Cams. He explained they could not get Trend tool steel lifters to sell. They did have them advertised for $699.00 Talked to Trend and yes $2400.00 and a year wait. The man from Howards explainded the company the made lifter cups went out of buisness at the start of Covid. I wrote NHRA tech department and tried to explain my position... No lifters...Yes I did ask about alowing rollers. Not because I wanted to gain performance but I wanted to race. They are in so many stockers with roler lifters now.... But they did not go for it..

Mike Gray 11-03-2022 11:32 AM
Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by john ancona (Post 670297)
Oh only a 6 months, it's now over a year now I have been waiting , so I did what all the (one more change to stock) Guy's are saying ,I built a Super stock engine to run in the mean time with the $ 650.00 dollar roller lifters while I wait for the what I think will be the $1400.00 to $ 2400.00 set . Lol
17 months for me and still no lifters, can’t finish the car anyway because it’s been in the paint shop for over a year. ( they have labor shortage also) At least the slow pace has spread out my spending and the wife doesn’t notice too much. I’m not getting any younger and I still hope I can go racing when this thing is finished!

bubski 11-03-2022 11:39 AM
Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 
Bubski’s thinking !! It sure would be more cost effective and in the spirit of stock eliminator rules to go back to the valve spring rule and forget about all of this nonsense with exotic materials and changing the rules to be closer to SS !! How can it be possibly cheaper to redesign your entire valve train ?? All that needs to be done is go back to what used to work in Stock !! Why can’t change ever go backwards to what worked previously ?? Why does change always move toward more problems and expense ??

Paul Wong 11-03-2022 01:34 PM
Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 
I cant agree more. Put the valve spring rule back in place and it will make all this go away. We even have two steps to kill the valve spring pressure a bit before tear down now.

I can only imagine all the letters of superseded valve springs appearing over night.

Billy Nees 11-03-2022 02:04 PM
Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Wong (Post 670355)
I can only imagine all the letters of superseded valve springs appearing over night.
It won't come to that if they can come up with something somewhat easy to police. Maybe stock dia. and height +/- something and no more than 180/200 on the seat.

Pat6868 11-03-2022 02:24 PM
Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 
IHRA Pure stock rules; problem solved.

Todd Hoven 11-03-2022 03:07 PM
Re: Billet cams and lifter supply
 
How much money will it cost when the 500.00 roller lifter explodes and it destroys the short block? Then we will need the parts to complement the lifters. Maybe titanium retainers, valves, etc. how much are Jesel lifters? 4K and up? Then we need keyed slot bushings for the good lifters. But this will fix everything, right. If I had to wait 14 months for tool steel lifters, I’d be trying to make a standard solid lifter work. Cam profile, spring combo, break in procedure and so on. Maybe you have to run softer profile cams so they last? Work with what you have? I’d take this route if I wanted to race and not sit out.

Remember when people on the board said if we just all had solid lifters it would be so much cheaper and easier to find and police? I guess all those people retried or quit racing? The same bullchit was said about roller rockers. Look where we are now?

Keep making these cars resemble SS rules cars and the NHRA can just cancel out the stock class and save a bunch of money and effort. They basically don’t want us there anyway. Your helping their cause by coming on here and asking for SS rules for our engines.

Forget about pure stock rules and enforcement. That ship sailed in the 80’s.

People here suggest a valve spring rule. That will even the playing field.
What happens when someone with a unlimited budget tells their engine builder to make that work no matter what the cost. Then you have put the cost even higher for racers to keep up.

If you want roller lifters in stock, run a car that came with them


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