Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

DYA is putting up a new Whirlpool Side by Side ice & water refrigerator to the winner of GT/AA at Indy 2008 with a retail value of $1400. (nothing required other than win the class run off)

This is to promote Bob Pagano's Kids with the any new appliance (just about any brand). 100% of the proceeds will go to DYA's cause to take disadvantaged kids to a drag race. The same goes for any Moser purchase. Call ahead and we can meet or beat any price and you can pick up in Indy while you are here.

Joe you can hold the fridge....we can guarantee to the winner that Joe's beer will be cold!

www.dyainc.org

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Darn Lynn :

It makes me want to build a GT/AA car with a Real Pontiac Engine ,maybe in late 2009 it may happen LOL

This Class is better than the hemi shoot out as there brand Rivary here

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

My Good friend Camaron Kallas wants each person in GT/AA to put up a $1000.00 for the Class win in GT/AA . He said he will if all wants to. this would make the class win more fun for all and a race with many different cars and combinations more interesting .:D:)

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

On the LS1 the 99 and 2000 are rated at 305 with a flat hood. The later, 2001 and up are 310 and the ram air version is 324 like in the TA with the WS6 hood. All use the same dia. throttle body.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Hey Lynn, I don't think too many people felt this way when the Hemi's were outrunning everybody in SS/AA. But I agree that limiting combo's sucks. I personally think that the early model Chrysler should get a weight break due to their terrible aerodynamics. Then those big body's would eat all the Camaro's for lunch, and the vette's for dinner. lol

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Where are all the sponsors for "GT/AA War for Class"? I suspect that all the sponsors have something laying around they could donate> It does not have to be cash ,just products . the "War" will be more exciting than any other class due to "Brand Rivarly".

Come all the racers in GT/AA call your contacts and sponsors to donate to this "War of Class Rivalries". The products does not have to be Automotive related > :D:)

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Cutta,

Yeah maybe aerodynamics is a minus, but how fast do you think a Hemi SS/AA or SS/AH car would go if they had to run the OEM block and heads like we do? Those new castings dont even closely resemble the old stuff. Not to mention they wont even let our hypo stuff designed to compete with the Hemi's and the BBC's run, but dont get me started! ;)

I proposed to NHRA that they do a 6.0 GT class with only the old hypo race combos only like Boss 429's, Hemis, 428 RA-V's, Buick Stage II's, etc, L-88's, etc. That would just make too much sense and be way too cool. Of course then they couldnt "hide" from the other factory race combo's.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Hey Lynn, I agree with you that all of the Hemi stuff is far from what it was, but I think that the reason for the reproduction stuff is has more to do with the rareness of finding the parts. I spoke to someone out of Barton's camp and they said that ther was a 6-8 month weight just to get Hemi Block form Chrysler. When parts become that rare, you really are forced open up them market so that everyone has the ability to run the stuff. Not only that, the heads are probably a more rare find. I think if Chrysler would step their game up as far as reproducing the blocks and heads and keeping a good inventory of the stuff, things could be kept a little closer to where they were years ago. Again, I'm sure it was not the only reason but I'm sure that is one of the biggest.

It's funny how NHRA ran away from the SS/AA problem though. Instead of trying to create parity, they just put the Hemi's in a class of their own. I would personally like to see Mopars, Fords, and AMC's wooping up on the GM's as we are the minority in Super Stock. Give the AMX's a weight break, Let the Thunderbolts drop a lil weight, Give Hemi's back the cross rams and carb offsett, and let em
run heads up. That would be exctiting to have a true Super Stock Automobile Manufacturer Shootout. Someboddy should put something like that together. But I guess I'm dreaming though

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Cutta,

I agree with all you said, but you "dodged" (no pun intended:)) my question. How fast if they were running the stock castings like us? Oh, and had to run 10.750 deck that the after market block allows them to cut 1/2 to 3/4 inch off the compression height?

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Well, I would say, with the new things they've learned up to now, hmm. 8.79 @ 146 in mineshaft condtions. I'm just guessing cause they were running 8.80's in the late 1990's when I watched the Hemi cars as a kid. But Lynn, in reflection on the topic, I have a question for you: are you telling me that none of those Chevy motors out there have been given some leeway(?) on block and cylinder head castings. I must say that it's hard to believe that none of the Chevy's out have been given some dimensional leeway with the blocks and heads.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

just like in PRO/STOCK ,the hemi rules right..lol

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

The Chevrolet cars are allowed the Bow Tie block, (stock passenger deck height) and in many cases, the 401 head. I haven't seen where you can really substantially deck a Bow Tie block. I was looking in to doing a big block Super Stock engine not long ago, as our goal is to eventually field a Super Stock Camaro to go along with our Stock Camaro. Admittedly, the 401 head has an exhaust port that is fairly substantially different from the original aluminum head offered on the L-88 and ZL-1, as well as being different from the cast iron heads that came on the 427-425HP engines. The exhaust port has been raised, as well as having the floor raised. However, the intake port retains pretty much the same location and configuration, as it is also legal in Stock and the original intakes as well as the 359 replacement intake fit and line up fine.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Cutta,

What do you mean by mineshaft 2000 feet below zero? I would bet at Indy, where the best air is usually around 2500 feet, none of them would even break 9 seconds. As for the BBC's, the bowtie is a way better than stock piece, but nothing to match the short deck hemi's advantage. If they ran a 10.750 deck, that piston looks like the size of my alum trash cans out to the road on Wednesday night. I just wonder what is the shortest deck Hemi out there?

Alan,

The compression height I have heard for most big blocks go about 1.200 minimum.. There is no way the BBC's gain as much in that department compared to Hemi's.

I am no expert, but I would say in the overall scheme the Hemi has gotten the better end of the parts acquisition game. Most people say it takes hard work, maybe so, but firstly it takes parts negotiation and management of those "strokes" of the pen.

In any event I still say a 6.0 GT class with all the factory race combos 420 cu in and up would be about the coolest race I can think to visit Indy. Secondly a 7.0 GT class for large cubic inch engines maybe hypo combos, but not factory race combos.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

The minimum in Stock for a 427 is around 1.735". Now, assuming a stroke of 3.799" and a rod length of 6.135" to remain legal, you're talking about taking 0.535" off of the block to get to 1.200" compression height. At a compression height of 1.735", you're already 0.030" below blueprint deck height which is 9.800. So to get to 1.200" compression height you'd need to get down to a deck height of 9.235", and I'm not sure you can take 0.565" off of a Bow Tie block and keep head gaskets on it. Besides, if you took that much off of it, there'd be no top bolt hole for the water pump, because at 9.800" blueprint height it's probably not 0.375" below the deck. I've seen some of the fastest SS big block Chevy engines in the country, they don't LOOK that heavily altered, and USUALLY I'd see that, there'd be some REAL obvious clues, like the intake touching the timing cover. But maybe I'm blind, or just over looking it.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Lynn, I was guessing what they would run say in conditions at a track say 500ft. above sea level with 69 degree, 70% Humidity, 30.1 or higher barometer. But at indy, they would probably squeeze 8.90's. I guess the best person to ask would be Mr. Wescott since he outrunning everything.

But Lynn, the only reason things have gotten so out of hand is do to the fact that all of the Hemi's are racing each other, so if everybody has the same stuff, there is no room to complain. Like I said, NHRA has let them have the most leeway since they no longer have to police them to provide parity with the Chevy's. So I guess, what all the Chevy guys will have to do is submit a proposall to NHRA to allow them some leeway so that they can participate in the SS/AH shootout in the future. I don't mind putting the cars back together in the same class, but I don't want to see a whole bunch whining on either end. Thats what creates the hassle NHRA Tech Dept. goes through to keep parity.

And they do need provide those lower weight breaks for GT. Keep trying, as a fan I would love to see it.
I'll be there with you guys one day, but college is the main focus right now.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

8.90's with the 10.750 deck an the old castings? No way!

Cutta, if you remember, you started out talking about how the Hemi's were kicking butt in SS/AA. Now you are saying it doesnt matter because they all run together? Ha Ha, nice try, that is some really good spin. ;)

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

It doesn't, because there is no class war.

Don't forget that none of these Chevy's were running SS/AA when the Hemi's were there. I've only heard a few stories of a Chevy winning the SS/AA class. But Lynn, you've got to remember, I'm a mopar fan and as such, I will always say that a mopar will win. I root for Allen Johnson in Pro Stock at every National event I watch on TV. Do you really think my opinion will change? Believe me, I'm not trying to run around the issue at all. It's just that since every guy in the SS/AH class has the same equipment and parts, no one complains about performance inequality so NHRA lets them have alot of leeway.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

What's REALLY funny about that is the group of Mopar guys that were evidently so scared of Scott Wilcox and Tony Rhodes that they campaigned successfully to get the 67 L-88 Corvette that had been run for years removed from the class guide.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Mr. Alan, that was probably before my time. I'm only 21! I would really like to see the class wars come back, but whiners from both sides will probably kill it before it happens. Would be interesting though!

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

I'm just Alan, nobody special, and no need for "Mr." Actually it didn't happen all that long ago. I think Travis Miller (NHRA Tech man) posted on this not too long ago. It happened about the time SS/AH was created. Or not long before. It might not have been Travis, I couldn't find the post in a quick search. By the way, it was GM that eventually said there were only 36 of the 67 L-88 cars produced. That seems odd, and a very low number, since I know of 2 of the original cars within 50-60 miles of me, but it is documentation GM provided. I know both Tony and Scott, they both raced local here.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

alan was hoping to see u at indy , looks like it will be the NC race. i wont call u mr. but i'll call u cowboy. stay safe . i never did see that video from the bristol interview did u??

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Steve, we're not going to Charlotte, they're not running Stock. No, I never could find the video of the Bristol interview. That was about as good as it got for me that weekend. I drove like crap!:(

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

yeah but i did a dam good job of puttin u in the waterbox haha, guess i shouldve checked charlotte first , kevin even told me the other day there wasnt stock at nc , not thinking to good after stanton last week ., dam van puked on way home cracked head etc etc .

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Some rumors heard around the drinking fountain.

A very Strong west coast team engine builder has gotten a good piece and is ready to see if they can hook it . this team has one of the top chassis builder and thraser working with them and will hopefully be ready in time for Indy.A very good driver also

A red car back east is running 100 lbs heavy until Indy . interesting

A brand new Pontiac car , a brand new car Toter home and trailer ,four trans, four convertors,a few carbs and a new old driver from Arizona headed east to indy going test on the way ,also has a top chassi builder on stand by to dial the car in from the same team on the west coast...

Another pontiac engine is a little behind for the new motor combination due to the slow head work .

Does anyone know what combination The one dodge entry ? or is is it a Bluff???


a late entry has been on the dyno all winter and as soon as he gets off the beach he will be there .

another strong video driver is in China ,am sure he will be ready to race.

Who all is willing to put up the $1000 up for the winner ???

Has anyone else heard any rumors?

there needs to be more sponsors for this class

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Don, You are right there needs to be more sponsors for "these" classes. See the interest several different cars in the class brings. Gets the sponsors juices flowing again if their products can be used for future ads.
Currently major sponsors cannot contribute selectively to sponsorship of these heavily populated interesting classes. Maybe that should be changed or could...Stock has some great heavy populated classes coming to INDY also. B/SA is one.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

It was Travis who made the post, been awhile ago but he explained in detail what happened to the '67 L-88 cars. The number produced was what caused the problem.

Noticed Ed Alessi posted some impressive GT/AA numbers at Maple Grove this past weekend; anybody know what combo he's running?

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

He was driving Gary Richards Cobalt

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Crane Cams is offering a $100 coupon to the winner of GTAA to help sponsor this wonderful and exciting class in the name of www.DYAinc.org

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

More rumors :

it seems a semi West coast racer from Utah and a West coast racer are both going to be at a private test session at Noble ,Oklahoma ,with one of the top notch chassis buillders on site to see if it will be worth while to go further to Indy.

Also two certain Pontiac racers from indy both have their engines on the dyno this week hoping to make more power to go to Indy if they can ????


Very interesting .:D:cool:;) WOW 18 thousand hits if everyone would send in 5 bucks for the winner of GT/AA then it would really see who is the quickest, fastest and greatests.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

my money is on BO.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

My money is on the Cavalier from Norway, SC!!!! Guiluis Power, wish I could afford some!

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Smitty,

The combination that Johnny and Andy have been running has been hit hard by the AHFS. They are giving up alot to the 400 cu in engine. Bigger motor Less factored HP you do the math

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

I see that major damage has been done to it but I got a gut feeling that they have some left, that's a pretty stout car. Remember they ran 9.0's two years ago with that thing, I gotta believe that Guiluis has found a few ponies in 2 years even with the HP hit.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Next year will be Fun!

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Hemi S/S heads and blocks: Lynn, I do not know what you have looked at, but I have a set of NEW Mopar stock hemi heads sitting on the bench and they look just like the 68 heads next to them. After they are finished they may not look the same, but have you seen a S/S small block or LS prepped legel head, they do not look much the same either. The newer hemi blocks add an additonal 60 pounds to the front of the car. If you deck a new hemi block much more than .350, you end up with a very thin deck which can crack and not seal. The stuff the SS/AH guys are running are nothing like the hemi prostock stuff. Dyno

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Dyno you gotta look a little deeper. The old stock heads weighed like 58 lbs, I think is the number (getting old CRS), the new heads are substantially heavier like 72 lbs. That extra cast iron is in the porting areas.

What is the old axiom for porting? It is hard to port where there is water.

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

Moser Engineering is sending me an award coupon for the winner of GTAA. In the name of the late Greg Moser and www.DYAinc.org, they are awarding an axle and bearing package. I worked with Greg in 2002 to develop an affordable light weight axle and center section package priced for Sportsmen racers.

Any racer that purchases a Moser product from me will get a good price and all proceeds from the dealer portion goes to help take kids to a drag race. See us at Indy.

lmc3470@aol.com
317-839-8378

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

I got to agree with Smitty, Johnny and Andy Fogle are two of the hardest working Superstock Guys out there. They have flogged the 350/295hp combo to death and I don't think they can be outrun by another 350/295. That combo Has been horsepowered pretty bad over the last couple of years, but I think they have pretty well maxed out the potential of the engine. If you beat them for class you better have your "stuff" pack tightly in one sock, and you have something to brag about. If you out qualify them or beat them for class with the same engine, you have worked a miracle!! Don Jackson

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

GTAA update (from Cecil County).....

Bo Kenney hooked and went a 9.17 in round one of SS.
Air was around 2000 feet.
(82 degrees 58 hum 29.86 baro).

Good luck to all competitors at INDY (in all classes).

Tom

Re: GT/AA Class War At Indy
 

My money's on Grossi. Killer combo.