Originally Posted by Michael Beard (Post 178924)

Hold on a sec, let me check my wallet... Hm. Somehow, it appears that this "opportunity" isn't available to me. :rolleyes: :p If I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd have one of each. That still wouldn't make them factored right or put them in the right class.

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz (Post 178935)

Forget all the nonsense Mustangs, Challengers, etc. If you want to be the bad boy in the country get a Cadillac. It may not go into the eights, but it will go further under than anyone else.

Now that some new cars can obliterate the rest of the field everyone is crying and bickering amongst themselves. I totally understand the situation as I have been in it more times than not for over twenty years.

The thing is anyone who wants to race Stock only has to look in the Classification Guide and pick the combo that they want. How fast do you want to go? How much money do you want to spend? Some combos are soft and some are not, but you do have a choice.

Some people want to run these new Fords with say unfair HP ratings. These individuals know that they are just scratching the surface of their true potential. Same goes with the Mopar clan. The bowtie people have had an advantage in the past, but it only has taken several years to realign them with the HP ratings. The sad thing is that these newer cars will eventually be corrected but the other sportsman racers will have left the sport due to frustration.

In the true form of competition we need all the new cars we can get. It will keep the sport alive. We need the older cars as they are a real representation of the sport and is the greatest car show as well. And believe it or not we really need the imports if we are going to draw in a new generation. It all still comes down to HP ratings whether new, old, domestic or foriegn.

The manufacturers know how to "play the new game" with HP ratings. Remember that well. The technical staffs and crews can see the descrepecies in HP ratings as well. The regular racer can see the differences. Everyone knows what is going on. Even the NHRA people in the Competition Department know the situation. We have representatives and comitties but it does not help. If you want to reach the individuals who are casting a blind eye to this and are the ones responsible for changes then look no further that the five members of the Competition Committee. They are the ones who are running this HP game.
Get ahold of them and you have the culprits. Good luck.

Now leave each other alone and go after this Committee.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA no further questions.

Originally Posted by dwydendorf (Post 179043)

Everyone is complaining about the low horsepower factors but other than bashing NHRA no one seems to have a solution to the AHFS which is flawed, so here goes. Instead of giving a certain percentage of horsepower, how about every six months if you trigger the one second under, you automatically move up one full class and your horsepower would be adjusted accordingly. That way no one has to add more weight, and the factors will get evened out faster. Now unless you can run an existing class, your car is factored into Super Stock if you don't make the stock weight break. Also if the class average is less than .5 under the index and no car with the same combo went more than .7 under you would automatically move down one full class and your horsepower would be adjusted accordingly. This would even the factors much faster and get things where they should be. Now let the flaming begin.

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 179077)

Great Idea! Now everybody will just be dumping at the 330!

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich (Post 179098)

Lynn McCarty has posted the solution to the AHFS problems repeatedly.

NHRA is not going to do it.

In fact, the AHFS solution and the changes necessary to make it work quickly were presented to NHRA by some of the SRAC members nearly two years ago. NHRA rejected it out of hand without even considering it. Several long time racers were involved in creating a solution, but NHRA does not care and will not be bothered with it.

Originally Posted by dwydendorf (Post 179101)

You would have to get every racer running that same combo to dump, not just one car. If it is an oddball combo that no one else runs,then it probably isn't that good to begin with and needs a lower factor anyway. Trying to get racers to stick together is like getting Congress to agree, so the chances of getting the same racers to dump the same amount is slim.

Originally Posted by Charley Downing (Post 179093)

what is your idea billy?

Originally Posted by Billy Nees (Post 179124)

Start using all of the eigth mile numbers!

Originally Posted by art leong (Post 179130)

How about doing away with the 1000ft numbers totally just give the 60', and the 1/8 mile times

Originally Posted by Charley Downing (Post 179136)

There will always be a way to get around any system that is in place. If you use 1/8 mile times people will lift a 330.

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz (Post 179225)

Would all of you people go back and read my post. You all need to get ahold of those five people in that Committee.

They already have all the incrimental times, they have been gathering information for the past year. It has been presented to the Comp Comm already. What are they doing about it, they are ignoring it. Don't you all get it! If you want results put pressure on this Comm.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA do not be stupid, take action

Originally Posted by art leong (Post 179238)

Ron how should they decide what HP? What criteria? By Compression? By Camshaft? By Carb/Throttle body? Different engines respond to different things.
My camshaft is only .492 lift. And I can run anything I want. Bigger cams have been tried but they don't seem to work. If my motor had .580 lift or so it wouldn't get out of it's own way.
It will take some time but it will work itself out.
The Hemi stocker guys had fits when the street hemi E body got hit a few years ago.
Well back in the "good old days" that motor was 440 hp. NHRA decided that 425 (factory number) was to low So they made it 440 in stock and 480 in superstock. Before a car ever went down the track.
Is this what you want to return to?

Originally Posted by hemidup (Post 179284)

Some very valid points to consider Art. Bigger is always not better in certain engine builds. This whole thread was based on how bogus the 5.7 Hemi was rated. Maybe we should all get back on track since this topic just turned into another, "bash the NHRA" thread. To those who don't like what NHRA is doing, past or present?...Go throw your keg's of tea into the Boston Harbor and have yourselves a party.

Anyways, There are at least 4, maybe 5 DP cars with this particular package. None of which have even hit the 1320 as of yet. Our 5.7 DP is still on the chassis jig and has already been bench raced and factored to death. lol Do I particular like the options on the 5.7 engine package that Mopar gave us? No... Could have made more power with less.

Originally Posted by drooze (Post 179299)

You and those valve sizes....lol.........

See everyone has something to bitch about even the DP guys.....:D:eek::D

Originally Posted by hemidup (Post 179317)

And Chris, we never even discussed TB size. Made the same power with a single blade 3.30" as a bench raced proclaimed, whoop azz factory supplied 1000 cfm. BTW, 3.34" and 3.54" single blade TB's net basically the same results. Now that we talked about how much air goes into the pump, we should talk about how much air goes out of the pump. Oh wait, we already discussed headers and wasn't that a surprise. ;)

Originally Posted by drooze (Post 179322)

Thats why those are still in the Box, Ill try em but I dont feel like tiging the bungs on for the EGT's and yeah the "Secret Squirrel" Models Pete Z made me up, well theyre awesome...Torque like this ? Well, specially on the 5.7......540ft lbs at 4500-5000 depending on advance......I think Im gonna have the Stainless sent back and 3 stepped like Petes....

April fools all........maybe.......maybe not.:eek:

Originally Posted by hemidup (Post 179333)

How's your current 5.7 build coming along? LSM will be doing our camshaft. Thanks for the heads up.

Originally Posted by Greg Hill (Post 177948)

Charlie , I'll ease up on you for a while and move on to maybe the most bogus of all the new cars horsepower factors. Check out the 5.7 hemi from Chrysler/ Fiat. It's the same motor as the 6.1 just less 25 cubic inches. It's rated at 305hp. Let's take a look at the specs boys and girls. It's 12.7 to 1 compression, it has a 584/552 lift cam, it has a single plane intake that is cast although it looks like a sheet metal manifold. It has a 1000cfm throttle body, a super stock oil pan and heads that flow well over 300 cfm right out of the box. Now let's compare this little jewel to the GM LS1 in the automatic version which is rated at 373hp unless you have a GTO or a Corvette and that's another story entirely.

The LS1 is 10.2 to 1 compression, it has a 515/515 lift cam, it's got a plastic manifold, a throttle body that is 2.954 round, a street oil pan, and good heads, although I bet they don't flow anywhere near the hemi heads on the Chrysler motor. Oh by the way the LS1 is 346 cubic inches.

The Chrysler should easily make 600hp. Any of you proponents of the new cars want to try and defend this deal.

Originally Posted by drooze (Post 179341)

Shooting for 10.5 with the 5.7 with as little testing as we have under it but that will be in Stock legal trim.

Gonna be fun.

Always is.

Originally Posted by drooze (Post 188033)

Wow, I forgot I said that......I guess my initial impressions were correct for once.....funnny to read something you said, forgot and now came to fruition.

Originally Posted by BlueOval Ralph (Post 188028)

NHRA stocker legal by a VERY GOOD engine builder 617 hp.
About 200 HP shy of the blown Mustangs?????

Originally Posted by Ron Ortiz (Post 178935)

Forget all the nonsense Mustangs, Challengers, etc. If you want to be the bad boy in the country get a Cadillac. It may not go into the eights, but it will go further under than anyone else.

Now that some new cars can obliterate the rest of the field everyone is crying and bickering amongst themselves. I totally understand the situation as I have been in it more times than not for over twenty years.

The thing is anyone who wants to race Stock only has to look in the Classification Guide and pick the combo that they want. How fast do you want to go? How much money do you want to spend? Some combos are soft and some are not, but you do have a choice.

Some people want to run these new Fords with say unfair HP ratings. These individuals know that they are just scratching the surface of their true potential. Same goes with the Mopar clan. The bowtie people have had an advantage in the past, but it only has taken several years to realign them with the HP ratings. The sad thing is that these newer cars will eventually be corrected but the other sportsman racers will have left the sport due to frustration.

In the true form of competition we need all the new cars we can get. It will keep the sport alive. We need the older cars as they are a real representation of the sport and is the greatest car show as well. And believe it or not we really need the imports if we are going to draw in a new generation. It all still comes down to HP ratings whether new, old, domestic or foriegn.

The manufacturers know how to "play the new game" with HP ratings. Remember that well. The technical staffs and crews can see the descrepecies in HP ratings as well. The regular racer can see the differences. Everyone knows what is going on. Even the NHRA people in the Competition Department know the situation. We have representatives and comitties but it does not help. If you want to reach the individuals who are casting a blind eye to this and are the ones responsible for changes then look no further that the five members of the Competition Committee. They are the ones who are running this HP game.
Get ahold of them and you have the culprits. Good luck.

Now leave each other alone and go after this Committee.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA no further questions.

Originally Posted by Chris "drooze" Wertman (Post 188033)

Wow, I forgot I said that......I guess my initial impressions were correct for once.....funnny to read something you said, forgot and now came to fruition.