Re: oil retention devices
 

Jeff, I am a paid member of both the NHRA and IHRA and posses a competition license in both as well. I am not sure how to take that statement. Are you asking me to leave the forum simply based on the fact that I am not class racer? Or just making me aware that the NHRA rep is not interested in hearing any pro's or con's from a non-class racer?

Re: oil retention devices
 

Why not just legalize Dry Sump systems? That would at least have the added benefit of improving performance.


And VIc S......... 11 quarts ???? ...you sandbagger!
If you cut it back to like 8 quarts it might cool down a little bit quciker & Just think of how much weight you'd save LOL

Re: oil retention devices
 

Jeff Lee: Sorry but my old eyes glazed over at about posting #35. We are in total agreement.

Racer6x64: The oil temperature issue is: the hotter the oil the thinner it is. The thinner it is the it's ability to protect the engine is lessened, oil pressure is lowered, oil flow is increased (emptying the pan quicker) and more oil migrates into the cylinder. Once all of these changes are dealt with there is no "issue".

Angelo: Remember all of those engine changes Dean and I use to do? I was running 8 qts. 11 is much better and cheaper!

Re: oil retention devices
 

Just what I made in bold.

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Does that mean that the NHRA ACTUALLY DOES CARE about what class racers have to say?

Just asking...

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: oil retention devices
 

LOL.....Yeah just like the Dems over the health care issue.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Since I have involvement with both S/SS cars and .90/ Bracket cars ,I have a few points to make............I've run a diaper on my SG car for the last 6 years , I can tell you oil temp is not an issue,but cooling the car between rounds is. .....When the hot lapping starts ,I'm lucky to get the coolant below 160 deg..The oil temp stays around 180, which is where I want it. [btw ,I run 5w30 ,not 50w] ..look at any of the racing oil sites ,or ask someone who spends a lot of time on a dyno ,You'll find the optimal temp for oil is 180 to 200 deg.........Is the diaper a pain to work around at the track, you bet! ..............does it drag on the ground in the pits or on a wheelie ,you bet......Do I want to put on on my Stocker [ or any of the S/SS cars I work on ?] ,No Way.,even tho having one probably saved my SG car a few years ago..............I will say this, I think ATF leaks are a far bigger problem than the ocasional oil down from a S/SS car. ...........That's a problem that can be corrected with a $30 puke tank , [ and I wont have ATF dripping on my head when I work on cars with Metric 200's ]...............Tom

Re: oil retention devices
 

I've been involved with Diapers since they became manditory. My Alky F/C never had one. Every engine/rod failure with my Top Fuel Car(s) and since working on Jim Head's Funny Car results in and saturrated over flowing diaper. THE ONLY thing that saves an Oil Down is a correctly designed and sealed belly pan with fore and aft baffles to stop Oil Shosh. After we hang a rod out we carefully let down the belly pan that is usually full of oil along with the soaked diaper. This is the rule not the exception with Nitro Cars. Did I mention we run Dry Sumps? IF diapers were the cure all, then why are there still oil downs with the Nitro Cars? Why are belly pans manditory also? My feeling's are quite simply that a "universal" Diaper for stock/ss is impossible. The containment is too close in proximity to the headers and the risk for fire is multiplied. I personnelly will not run a diaper on my car WITHOUT an on board fire system. When they pulled Al DaPasso out of his Alky FC in BG , KY in 1992 the meat (muscles) of his lower legs were hanging off the bones like a cooked chicken. ( He died several weeks later.) I prefer for that not to happen to anyone ever again. MY point ? I hate Fire. Hit a guardrail,... spin out,... flip........NO problem .....I hate fire.....What's next? Fire Suits, and Hans Devices? Give me a brake! ...PS... for all the non Vietnam Vets out there, Go on line and look up how Napalm is made; Take a little Gasoline, Mix in a little Aluminum, add some Oil, etc. etc., sound Kinda like the contents of an oil pan? JB.

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Great Point Jim !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: oil retention devices
 

Do any of you remember when Rich Pica punched Bob Lang???????
Ha should have hit him harder to knock some sense into him.

Hammer

Re: oil retention devices
 

I'm not in favor of this on many levels, the cost, the service issues,the REAL need.First the cost, if you have room and can just get a garden variety diaper and install it great, go for it. However most of the cars I've seen would require quite a bit of reworking, if such a device had been incorporated into the build from jump street then all's well. I like Wade do most all of my own car building, build a new set of headers, yeah I can do it then I can drop another $300 for coating and throw my other perfectly good set in the scrap pile.First issue solved, next oil pan, nearly touches mid plate, well a new $700-$1000 oil pan should fix that.So for me at least, besides the labor time to fab up the headers and the cost of the diaper I'm in for about $1000 dollars. Now would I spend a grand to protect my race car, yeah you bet however as stated by some here it's still no guarantee, I'm not going to leak some fluid, for instance, A good freind of mine has a T/S car with a diaper a few years ago he's at a race leaves the line all the sudden car takes off on him, tags the wall, car goes back to RJ for repair. The culprit? He had a small water leak that kept collecting in the diaper once it had enough stored up well you can see how it turned out. As for service well seems to me it would require at the very least taking one side of it down, is that a pain, not sure but for some apps I'm quite sure it wouldn't be pleasent. And yeah the REAL need how 'bout showing us track oiling racers some data, data's good I've found it useful most every day in my life. I cannot say having one is a bad idea, however I can say it's a bad idea to make them mandatory, we simply can't run every possible scenario and come up with a fix for it, too many variables.So to the guys that have them cudos just don't make everyone else have to have them. Joe

Re: oil retention devices
 

It should be manatory on every car with a BLOWER, otherwise optional equipment. Stuff will occasionally blow up including transmissions and rear ends. Are we going to diaper them too? I have oiled a track and sat and waited while cleanup was done for others. It's part of the deal. This idea is another knee jerk reaction to a low percentage problem and I'm against it.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Stock is the oldest sportsman class with SS probably a close second and the basic rules have been in place for a very long time. To ask a class to change from those rules in an instant and start cutting and moving steering and crossmembers and frame rails, headers and what ever else some of the cars will have to do to allow for a retention devices in not productive or good for the future of NHRA Drag Racing in this economy.
I'll be the first to say we could use extra safety devises on all classes but at what price would we have to pay for this rule to be put into effect this soon. This should not be a hasty decision and much research needs to be done before any rule is considered so not to leave anyone out of racing. This is not to say if you can put one on you should go for it.

NHRA has been good enough to ask for input from Stock and Super Stock CAR OWNERS only.
They are engaging in the first part of the research nessesary to be able to discuss the issue intelligently. If you want to share your difficulties of the application of these devises on your car I urge you to do so VERY SOON by emailing Bob Lang and copy your Div. SRAC member. Please include your car numbers and type and year of car and engine combination. Pictures will be very helpful.
This is a very serious matter for some to comply with and you should be heard from.

Thanks
Mike Crutchfield
D2 S/SS SRAC Member

Re: oil retention devices
 

Maybe your BLOWN 526 HEMI needs one !! But very few in Stock or Super Stock actually needs one !! Too many posts on this are from people not involved in Stock or Super Stock but come here because the forums for throttle stop classes are DEAD !

Re: oil retention devices
 

They were not down for Stockers Blowing up at the classic. Rain washed out saturday racing and washed out the finals on sunday. Had to run them on Monday. There were 3 oil downs total and from what I understand all 3 were caused by .90 Super cars so get you facts straight.

Re: oil retention devices
 

I was there at the Dutch and the ONLY reason the race was delayed was because of rain.
Don't remember any problems with stockers oiling down the track.
BTW do you have a diaper on your heemi?I hope so.526"s and a blower sounds like a recipe for a future China Syndrome.

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Seems like some people have an agenda. Ed. He has to use one so he wants everyone to use one. Sounds like misery loves company.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Actually your facts are no where near correct. I was there with a friend looking at a stocker that was for sale. There were 3 oil downs that I witnessed and all were from .90 cars. Not once did I ever see a stocker oildown anything and I watched every stocker run.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Blown Hemi, I think your log on name says it all, not aware of too many of those in S/SS. The post was started in regards to what actual S/SS racers thought of this plan of action, not for people who don't have a dime in it. I've got several freinds who run the faster classes who all had to shell out the coin for the 15 suits.Then most scrambled on the rear driveshaft deal. Sure most grumbled but hey the rule was already a done deal. Those are completely different cars than we're talking about. You say we're not entitled to see some data on this subject, why not? If they told all us that we've got this much down time by these certain classes that may sway some racers to rethink. Really I'd like to see the numbers across the board, for all classes T/F on down, any guesses on who the worst offenders are? Again I'm not against someone having one on I'd just like the choice, since we seem to be losing our choices on most everything else. And for the record I had a near miss while running a car with a diaper, kicked the rods in the lights crossed just behind me and tagged the wall hard apparently the Rat motor inards over loaded the diapers capacity. Joe

Re: oil retention devices
 

I can not represent racers a the SRAC meetings with info like; my buddy said , my wife said, my ex-wife said, etc. It won't fly!....We need; I was there. I saw Stock # ...SS # Oil the track and cause a delay. Then, We need info as to why they oiled the track - Engine Failure - Tranny Failer? - Rear End? SRAC only needs and can deal with FACTS! As they say $h*t in $h*t out. BTW - I was at the Dutch two years ago, and the only delays I remember were due to weather. Blown up 526, you're not Graham Light by chance, are you? (laughing). JB

Re: oil retention devices
 

you dont have a stock or super stock car so maybe you dont understand the limited area we have to try and fit a diaper my steering just misses my oil pan by maybe 1/8 inch and we are not aloud to touch that in these cars
secondly i have a car that wheel stands to high on occasion but most of the time it is under control but if the conditions are right it will go way in the air and just ligntly touch the track with the oil pan thats not a bigger issue unless NHRA want to let us change the steering and some other things that would have to be done this is not a good idea one other thing it is not cost of the diaper that is upsettingit it is the cost of getting then to fit in my case it will cost me about $1500 dollars new headers etc.etc.

Re: oil retention devices
 

I think at Houston I will try to get some of the Tech guys to come over and look at one of these SS cars on the lift, and see the problem in detail. It's really tight in there with steering, headers, oil pan, frame etc especially with an older model car. The AH cars are probably the worst, but some of the cars with tricky headers might easily be worse.

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See below Mr blown hemi.You answered your own question.Since you seem to be able to see the future,how about giving me the Powerball winning numbers for tomorrow night.

Quote:
If it was not the stockers oiling the track all day then why is this even being mentioned to becoming a rule ??
Quote:
To much money for NHRA to skim off the diaper companies to let this one go. First it was the muffler rule and they made a ton of money from the skim on that and now it will be this

Re: oil retention devices
 

Jeff teuton,

Like an FE...:mad:


Stephen Johnson #2162
Horace Johnson #2167
SS/D 427 Ford Fairlane NHRA-IHRA

Re: oil retention devices
 

OK is it your brother or a friend of yours wwhich is what you claimed in your first post? You can't get that straight so how can you have the facts straight when YOU were NOT there?

Re: oil retention devices
 

So we're now 11 pages in and no one can answer my question? Could it be that my 13 second Stocker is going down a National Event track and a Bracket Dragster isn't?

Re: oil retention devices
 

Billy
You are correct. Some tracks have mandated it in bracket cars running faster than 10.99. Others haven't. In my opinion what has happened is this. A manufacturer of these diapers has gone to NHRA and said "Hey I have this device that will save time and money from oil downs. If you mandate it on all cars running National Events and Divisional Events you can ensure less down time." NHRA agrees with no data to back it up. I don't fault the companies for trying to sell their product. A business owner has that duty to keep his company operating. I do however have a problem with a company trying to sell a product knowing that historical data shows that some cars and classes just don't need this product.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Amen!!!

Well unless you do a burnout at 8K?

Sean

Re: oil retention devices
 

Hey no pickin on my buddy Drooze now!! LOL

Re: oil retention devices
 

Lol...twernt me.....twas the old man...(pointing to Las Vegas where he decided to go......uhhhh....prepare our pit spot) :D

I kept the car at 37% throttle (+/- 1.5%) everytime I burnt it out.....or didnt burn it out....sometimes way too short, but I got logs up to that point at least.......

Does the NHRA require Stereo Capacitors to be "Approved" ? I cant find em in the guide ......

Re: oil retention devices
 

Since I have not run a National event since about 2001 I can only speak about Lucas races......

Easily the biggest offenders by far are TAFC and TAD.....They puke almost every session and it's rediuclous the amount of time lost to a low number of cars....


Ever notice how smoothly a race goes where they are NOT in attendance....

I think some of the really fast High dollar muscle car Stockers might want to have a diaper as they are racing cars worth a great deal of money.....or some of the newer fast cars too......


but in all fairness I rarely see Stockers or SS'ers for that matter oil up the racetrack......

I have a diaper....it's required in S/C.....it is a pain in the arse......but I feel safer with it on there at the speed I run.......I would probably have one even if it was not required.......

Requireing Stockers to have one seems misguided from a stats point of view.....

Re: oil retention devices
 

Well how many people have seen a Stocker catch on fire going down the track ?
Thus the change in the pants rule !! Same Crap.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Floyd,

I'm with you and Billy on this, as it's just as crummy in my mind as the torque converter companies (except I think for Hughes), requiring you to have either purchased or had serviced a converter within 36mths of the event that the contingency is earned at (per a ND mag. from last month)!

Re: oil retention devices
 

Just out of curiosity, What does it cost these days to be an accepted NHRA product manufacturer? Are you guarenteed anything? It seems some sort of agreement has to be made with NHRA to make the "juice worth the squeeze". It also just seems that they are trying to shove something down our throat that benefits that same manufacturer. Does that same company get free entry to events? Are there perks involved? I have a frien that worked for Goodyear and he told me that corporate always had free tickets, suites and even free entry for a couple of Goodyear sponsored sportsman racers.

Re: oil retention devices
 

B,
I have seen a stocker catch on fire years ago. THe guy had borrowed a carb from another racer and it developed a leak after the burnout. It caught on fire about the 1/8 mile and burned to the ground. WIth that said, the driver had on jeans and a jacket and it melted part of his jeans to his legs. Keep in mind this was years ago so I think they should have made that rule then not wait until now.

Re: oil retention devices
 

If you think this is nutz....how about the locking transmission dip stick for 10.99 and quicker.

Re: oil retention devices
 

Actually after one of our last exchanges, I picked up the phone and called Dennis over at DRE, he was a nice fellow, I said sounds like youve been taking a beating and before he could say anything I told him, hey I already drank the coolaid, Im sure if I was MANDATED to have it on a car that it was a real pain to use put on and take off I would feel different.

For me, and after 2 experiences of perforating engines in this car, well, I am considering it saftey equiptment, not for us for the damm car. I put too much work into this thing to see it become a crushed tin can because of oil past 330'

Thats me, I actually dont mind saftey equiptment, and it will also keep us from holding up an event should that occur, I dont like it when Im held up so I dont expect others too, bad for the racers, bad for the fans, bad for us.

For those that have never had a need, I can see a concen and mandating it seem a bit rough to me, there are cars ive had I have no idea how I would get one on or off, hardly ever, hell the Stock SRT8 I would gripe about because it would be a hassle, Mustangs, ouch....and on.

Cheap, Cheap insurance against something weve already had happen. For us....

That being said something was brought to my attention during our conversation, apparently with all the griping about the Hazmat and such in Florida and EPA concerns from the NHRA perspective, apparently someone brought it to their attention that if it happens on the track it may be their liablity / fault. And them subject to fines possibly ? Or something along that line....make sense eh ?

Just something I thought I would share, why is the NHRA worried, its gotta be pressure right ? Or fear of $ liability to someone (the oil , not the diapers) and its kinda like the post office we had that installed all bullet proof glass after it kept getting robbed repeatedly, only to have my dad say "watch this" and we walked right in an open side door behind the counters......same thing with the oil, Uhhhhh......oooppppsss we forgot something and in our zeal to make sure YOU do what you should we left ourselves wide open....

Just a thought maybe wrong but noone likes liability.....crap that reminds me I have to go finish the "Independent Contrator" clauses for our Pit Girls....see.....even saves me from a harrasment charge when I say "Come on Wiggle a liltte more for the other racers" ...... Noone likes liability and BIG Out of control companies or orgainizations reward employees for finding things like this to be worried about....

Re: oil retention devices
 

You are correct...Dennis at DRE is one of the good guys. I'm a Super Gas, Super Pro racer and have a diaper. It is my belief that any car using a power adder, such as NOS, turbo, blower,etc should be required to have a diaper regardless of ET or class or bracket. I also believe that any car quicker than 10.00 seconds or faster than 135 MPH should have a diaper

My $0.02

Re: oil retention devices
 

Barrowed from another site

post title: For those who complain about engine diapers...


Posted April 06, 2010 01:09 AM
Found this pic floating around of my dads less than one year old car back in October of 2000, kicked a rod out about 80 feet out and rolled 3 times. A blanket would have saved this car, and his broken back, without a doubt. just a reminder as people are starting their seasons around here.

Click on pic to increase size

Re: oil retention devices
 

a throttle stop car ?? Looks like........