Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

[QUOTE=fredjohnston;195962]If you could drive as well as Mike you could hug yourself to.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Terry, don't encourage him! I've been trying to break him of that for years! You've never seen him stand in front of a mirror and kiss his reflection for hours. It isn't pretty.
That beautiful, blue eyed, blond haired genius!

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

John DiBartolomeo ask 'What can be done about it" Thanks John with that question I'll step up on my soap box.
I'll take a stab at what I see as from a former track owner. I think what NHRA has done to divisional track operators has had a major shock to the sport. They have imposed quotas. In good times quotas are used to limit participation and take the cream of the crop. That is not so good in bad times. Divisional races are no place for quotas. That is fine that we have to earn some grade points to enter National events. By quotas I'm talking about car counts that earn a track owner money. In a conversation with a gentleman that is very well connected in our sport I learned that the break even point for a divisional track owner is 400 cars. Yet by mandate NHRA has a 32 car comp field and a 32 car Top sportsman field and a 32 car Top dragster field. Add to that an 8 car top alky dragster and an 8 car Top alky flopper classes. "IF" those fields are full you still have only 112 cars at the track. That leaves only 6 other classes to bring in 300 cars to make the magic 400 even money point.
Quotas kill the incentive for teams "On the bubble" to spend time and money traveling to a divisional race. Some well healed guy says"They just need to work on their program"and "Spend more" to be competitive. Ever though they are maxed out as to what they can afford to spend on their program? Don't they deserve to race too?
I'll make my point with the recent Tulsa Divisional race. Here is the Car count:
Here is Tulsa
> Total car count: 342
> TAD 10
> TAFC 5
> T/D 32
> T/S 28
> COMP 24
> SS 44
> STK 32
> SC 74
> SG 38
> SST 46
> BMX 9
If Comp, T/S and T/D had been All Run fields the Tulsa owners might not have taken a bath at the gate. You also have 2 high pay out classes that had only 15 cars. TAFC & TAD. I have heard it said that track owners could "Book A Show" for the same $$ and make more $$ and have a better show.
It doesn't take a math expert to see that NHRA needs to "Fix" this problem for the track owner that wants a divisional race. If something isn't done soon it may be hard for NHRA to get tracks to buy into a Divisional race. Where does that leave us racers? Fewer races farther apart so we have to travel more, spend more.
Make the divisional races "All Run" fields and help the car counts.
The cars are out there. Give them an incentive to go to the races. No one wants to spend $600 to $1000 and get a DNQ.
Another way to help out would be knock off the two most costly classes and spend a little more round money on other classes. Round money "IS " another incentive for racers. When a guy gets ANYTHING back it makes it easier for him to justify the expenses to a spouse or significant other....Yes, a spouse or significant other does figure into the state of the economy and if we race or sit home being the family man.
O.K. these are just my opinions about problems in our sport.
Off the Soap Box..

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Great points Adger. Im all for getting rid of the Alcohol cars. You all know how I feel about those damn things. They usually dont pay entry fees anyway. They just keep the track from rusting much like the fuel cars. If they are going to have T/D and T/S then yes....make it an all run field as in IHRA but have a min. ET break (dial in) like IHRA does at their points races.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Don't get rid of the alcohol cars. Just make them pay their way. A full entry fee for Top Alcohol, plus clean up fees for the oil downs. Not enough entries in Top Alcohol? No purse for them.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

.The two most expensive overhead classes at a divisional meet as everyone knows are the alky classes they take the huge purse and bring in no fans and oil the track the most . I see why some tracks won't take them . The alky classes need to race at select national event races and then only the top 8 .Now after saying this every track owner and NHRA and racers all know this is not a favorable nor profitible class to have yet they still continue to bring them in so What is going on???? Everyone knows the other classes are paying for the alky purse while our purse never goes up ?? still a very strange deal by the decisions makers these days

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Mr. Johnston, if you would read the ENTIRE sentence, you would realize that I was talking about simply being able to *compete* with people with more money, on the track, even though I can't (and don't care to) compete with that money off the track. I was not stating "I'm better than you.".

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

In answaer to Grape the stock super stock combo is open to all NHRA & IHRA stock&super stock classes. There will be no heads up so all you need to do is run the index either NHRA or IHRA. We are part of the overall show.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Michael I tell my son all the time my car doesn't know what kind of truck it was towed by or what kind of trailer it was in when it's going down the track

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I took the year off, to Save some money for my wedding. But the big spring storms we had in the northeast damaged my roof. So I have to put a roof on the house. I don't win enought money to do both. Maybe next year

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

WEDDING !! Ya better be sure because it can get more expensive 7 or 8 years down the road......lol. Good Luck.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

$$$$ is killin' me. Cost of living increase with a reduction in pay. I can barely afford to pull the RV out of the lot right now. Also, trying to save what I have for an event I'll really enjoy and during the cooler months. NHRA costs have become an absolute joke as they're completely blind to the economic downturn with us racers.:mad:

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I hope I'm wrong on this but it almost seems like NHRA will milk it dry till there's nothing left. Kind of like a kid with no business sense taking over a family business and running it into the ground. I manage a large building supply store and like Home Depot or Walmart when I'm having a slow month I make special sales and bulk deals to keep the cash coming in. When is the last time NHRA threw anybody a bone or did anything that made sense for that matter, Paul.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Do you think maybe racers finally have had a slap in the face about what racing actually cost.
I had to sale my dragster. I loved it. It was a life long dream to have one, and we won money with it. THat being said I could'nt keep it. I've raced a good bit this year because I have a gold card. I've also bracket raced more this year too. I still say it cost more to run brackets than class race. We can debate that anytime.
Beard and I are lucky we live in NC and can race cheaper than most, because of the close proximity of the races.
I still say if you want to go bad enough skip applebees meal and eat out the cooler. Make your crew pay their own way or stay home(why do you need crew for a fwd stocker)??????????????? Sleep at the track. Thats some of the things I do so I can still go racing. That being said I'm still racing week by week. If I win some money I go next week if I don't I stay home and work until I can go again.
Chip Johnson

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I want to get back out but since the car has sat since '06 in storeage (no place to work on it) and bringing home under 400 a week things look pretty bleak for me (before rent and food). I want to get back out but will have to drop down in class as I don't have the money to be competitive in K/SA any more. Will see what 2011 will bring with a 2bbl set up. I can run New England ASRA and possibly the Valley for the Divisional but that's it. New England is supposed to go NHRA next year so a National is out.

Phil aka Chevellewagon.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

[QUOTE=THE LEGEND;196123Make your crew pay their own way or stay home(why do you need crew for a fwd stocker)???????????????
Chip Johnson[/QUOTE]


My "crew" would be my parents, and they like to go racing with me.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I take back my excuse, I did miss it.

I'll be back in September for an abbreviated season once I settle into my new job and have finished relocating.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Let's see Jim. Like Bob M..... I work for a local City. (Dodge City) We not had a raise in 4 years. By the time we save enough to get the car up to speed you don't have enough to get to the track. Even having Sonoma in our back yard you know the costs for 3- 4 days of NHRA........ It's not going to get better out here for quite some time. THE CHANGE is not working for me. Speaking of change, Back to work on a better wheelie bar. :~(


BP

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

People talk about food cost while racing. DO YOU PEOPLE NOT EAT WHEN YOU'RE AT HOME????????????????????

You don't have to drive 1,000 miles to a racetrack either. You canat least go to a local Saturday night race somewhere.

Some people have a legitimate excuse if there is no money you can't go.

Some people could go they just need to down size or pick a class thats affordable but then there is that PRIDE swallowing thing.

It is hot and in the fall it's cold.
It might also rain.
I need tires.
So and so will be there and he is faster than me.
Beard will be there and he will win anyway.
I can't afford to run my car for that much.
Anymore excuses you can come up with.
Post them here.
Chip Johnson

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

NHRA screwed me, just love that one.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

For me it's more of a time thing. Between being so busy at work and a huge renovation at home the car is not getting nearly enough attention even though it is very close to being done.
Motor/trans is to go in next week,then its time to order a new M/W drive shaft. From there it's just a few odds and ends and I think we are ready to go racing.

Allan

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Quote: I still say it cost more to run brackets than class race. We can debate that anytime.

I guess if you buy back in two or more times? What does that cost? Maybe if a car that is not a 40-110 under the index and don't plan on winning class anytime soon then yeah, it is cheaper to run a bracket car in stock. I take it you are talking entrys only Chip? Certainly not in the engine/trans/diff costs.



BP

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

The worst thing anyone can do is go 5 rounds at a divisional just to get your entrance fee back. Trust me this was what killed my desire. I will go to 2 a year tops from now on until NHRA fixes the payouts. They probably won't so the car counts will continue to drop until Stock and Super Stock is ended. As far as class goes I'll take it as another time trial for now. Can't see spending 10K for a killer motor to maybe get $300 in contingency. I think NHRA and Beard need to talk LOL

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Barry,
I don't know how things are on the left coast, but here in the SOUTH:
A lot of Bracket races allow you to double enter the same car.
Have 2 rds of buy backs.
One of my Local tracks for example cost:
$35 to run Top e.t.
$40 each BB .
You can spend $115 to race.
The payout is $1200 w
$200 ru
$50 semi
The reason I go is its 4.3 miles from the house.

If you want to go run for big money:
Typical 5k race will be $75-$100 ef x2 because they will allow doubles
BB $50-$75 x 4(possibly because of double entry and 2 rds of BB)

I know most of you "Classy" racers look down your noses at bracket cars but I'll bet you my car cost as much as 75% of the class cars out there, maybe more. There are a lot of cars out there that are double what mine cost too.

I do both. I bracket race. I run IHRA races. I've owned Stockers, HR-SST, SR-SG, QR-SC
Cars and none of them are cheap.
Chip Johnson

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Chip, I am an old bracket racer who likes to tinker and make stuff fly. That is why I took on the Performance Based Eliminator, (Stock) and SS. There isn't anyone I know who looks down their nose at bracket racers. I know quite a few (Classy Racers) that have had their tail handed to them by a good bracket racer. Out here I have not seen double entry with the same car and I don't think buy back either but I could be wrong. North, South, East and West face the same problems, MONEY and lack of work. There are a bunch of stock /ss racers here who will frequent the local bracket programs to tune up on driving. My hat is off to Kyle and Peter for trying to get the Big Bucks bracket programs up and running strong on the West Coast. Participation seems to be the biggest issue and it's not just Class Racing. I have seen local associations pay big first round money, traveling money, points for travel and several other ways all without drawing more cars.... Lack of money and higher priorities? You tell me? I don't think they are excuses Chip, I think it is reality and priority.

BP

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Maybe health aside, I think even the non money problems could be solved with money ha. Of course it might be a little boring if we all had CJs now wouldnt it? Ha.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Then again it could be more exciting because all of the runs would be HEADS UP (after combining the sticks and automatics together) and flat out.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

BP,
I could'nt agree more.
It's all about money , committment ,and priority.

Chip Johnson

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I hope you folks don't mind my weighing in on this subject because I'm not a racer, but I am someone who is passionate about the sport and I make part of my living from it. Hopefully Adger won't mind my borrowing his soapbox for a minute or two.

I've read every post, and the reasons folks aren't racing as much as they have in the past or would like to now does, for the most part, have a central theme - money. The current economy is hitting a lot of people very hard. My own event schedule for this year was cut by 40% from what I worked last year.

The two major sanctioning bodies are night-and-day different on the structure of how they conduct divisional events. NHRA is 11 classes while IHRA is 7 classes. Therefore, the IHRA has much more flexibility concerning scheduling events that can be contested and completed in one or two days. Some NHRA divisional events are scheduled for two days, but those can only be conducted at tracks that have no curfews and have lights for night racing. Any time either sanctioning body can cut the required time for racers to be away from home and still compete is an obvious incentive for more participation.

Some feel eliminating alcohol classes from NHRA divisionals would be beneficial to everyone. Given that some tracks can and have opted not to include those classes, that is sometimes the only way a particular track can afford to host a divisional event. The costs of the purse is an added expense to the track owners, and if they know they can't cover that expense with both the back and front gate receipts, and their market won't draw enough front gate to cover it no matter how much they promote those classes as the headliners of the event, they'll have to eat some of the expense.That is sad. Given the short fields in the alky classes at many (too many) divisional events, entry fees would further shorten those fields, yet the track owners would still have to pay the same 1st place and R/U purses (there have been events with only two cars entered), so the track owners would still be on the hook for added purse money. That means added pressure to cover that expense from the back gate, or charging $3 for a soda that they were charging $1.25 for at the concession stand three years ago. I think the alky classes are exciting to watch. They've already been cut from quite a few national events. I'd really hate to see them cut on a larger basis at the divisional level, but given that this year's NHRA divisional schedule is smaller than it has ever been since I started working them, this may well be a trend that will find more tracks opting out of hosting alky, or hosting a divisional at all.

I'll touch on Comp Eliminator for just a moment, prompted just a little bit by Adger's post about open/all run fields. Having 32 Comp cars show up for most NHRA divisional events has been relatively rare over the last few years, and in some divisional events, it has never happened (see Fallon this year - no Comp entries and Fallon last year - two Comp entries). Comp happens to be my favorite class. I truly appreciate the diversity of the cars involved. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy this sport at every level, and Stock and Super Stock are right up there. To me personally, wheels up cutting a great light in both lanes and racing the stripe within a foot (or less) of each other is just as exciting as top fuel!

I don't know what the IHRA charges a track to host a divisional event. While there have been some cutbacks and/or changes made to who is hosting the events, it must be relatively reasonable. Perhaps it's time for the NHRA to adjust their hosting fees for divisional events to reflect the current economy.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Bob,
You stood tall on my soap box...
Very good points. I was going to say we had seen about a 40 % drop. I had based it on Nitro Joe's stats. We have been having a lengthy discussion on one of the Comp forums about attendance/participation and how to make changes to improve it. I'm of the opinion that things are going to have to change in near future to keep the majority of track owners in the black. Even some of the better local tracks are having trouble staying out of the red. I hope the future of our sport can be a good one, but it doesn't look so good to me. I'm not trying to be a gloom and doom guy, just a realist that things aren't the same & our sport needs to evolve/grow with the times....
Bob,
Thanks for an insiders perspective

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

I have not raced this year because my old boss just about bankrupt me over the winter with a lack of working hours. I save my few vacation days to go racing the last couple of years and had to quit my job(and didn't get my vacation pay) and take another job with no vacation time this year. My new job is always 40 hours a week but more travel time. Hopefully I can go racing soon, and have to get used to racing in 98 degree weather, since I missed the nice springtime conditions.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Chip you have helped me see this... When I was younger I would race somewhere on friday night, sleep in my 84 suburban and race somewhere on saturday, I raced alot of times when I didnt have the money too, i made it work and it always seemed to work out..... Now I have more money than I had then, but I have a house payment now, and other things, so I make excuses alot and talk myself into not going.... My priorities have changed somewhat, and my committment is definately not where it used to be....

SF needs to get off the couch..

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Legend, you are right. If you live in North Carolina you can be at a drag strip within an hour drive from most locations. And if you really want to race you will race what ever event is going on at the track near you and it is every week-end. Most are $35 or $40 with one buy back either first or second round. Make a couple of rounds and you at least get your entry fee back beyond that you are to the good.

Beard, you don't have to have the big motor home with the portable garage and machine shop to have a good time racing. Granted it is not always perfect see the attached photograph. This was Thursday Night at Virginia Motorsports park before Pinks. I rained almost 5" in an hour. Once the storm was gone everyone was out wading in Virginia lake and laughing about the weather

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Forgot to add the photograph.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Plain and simple, for me it's the current state of the economy. Could we go to more races.... yes however we've begun to be more frugal in when and where we go. Hopefully we will all crawl out of this current economic down turn and get back to the way things were, but that's not going to happen over nite. Joe

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

With the price of gold at $1200.00/oz. the creek is way more profitable for me than drag racing. Right now anyway.

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

tim worner you have PM Any contact info for Tim Worner

Grape

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Barry, I have to disagree with youir statement about bracket racer vs class racers.......I haven't found a class racer yet that has any regard for bracket racer, hell, I raced in NSS and was look down upon because I wasn't a REAL racer even though NSS isn't bracket racing like class racing is.

JimR

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

It's the economy and over inflated cost of living. I was working on getting my LeBaron ready to race again, but ran into severel heavy hitting financial binds. I decided to mothball the car until times get better. It may be a while......

Re: Why Aren't You Racing?
 

Yeah I know there are a few. We both know there are a lot of bracket racers in S/SS now. They gamble on not getting a heads up and that's fine. Bracket racing lets me get more seat time and hone the tree. I could care less if they like me or not. Most are intimidated knowing stockers can be deadly consistant.


BP