Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 236610)

People have mentioned combining stick & automatics. Since the performance difference pretty much no longer exists, what would be the down side? More heads ups, fewer classes to pay. Who, other than guys wanting to avoid heads ups would object? I know of at least one guy that put a stick in his car to stop heads ups he could not win. The shear number of SS classes has gotten way out of hand Not as much of a downside since winning class no longer has anything to do with qualifying. Evan has several good ideas.

Originally Posted by SStock1373 (Post 236645)

Ed there were 2 stick cars and Chevy A GO GO modified stick car out of an 80 car field at the Reading Nationals last year. I don't think 2 cars avoiding heads-up runs is the problem. We need more ESPN2 exposure.. how do we get it? Tell me who to petition to and I will.

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 236610)

People have mentioned combining stick & automatics. Since the performance difference pretty much no longer exists, what would be the down side? More heads ups, fewer classes to pay. Who, other than guys wanting to avoid heads ups would object? I know of at least one guy that put a stick in his car to stop heads ups he could not win. The shear number of SS classes has gotten way out of hand Not as much of a downside since winning class no longer has anything to do with qualifying. Evan has several good ideas.

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich (Post 236571)

Here is what people need to understand about contingency money, from the point of view of the contingency sponsor, and remember, those are the people you are expecting to pay you real money, out of their pocket, for your hobby.

A sponsor is a person who pays you money in exchange for positive marketing exposure. They expect you to win or do well in competitive racing, and show good performance, to give their potential customers a positive view of their product. They absolutely MUST be able to, for lack of a better term, BRAG about your performance.

If you do not beat other cars racing heads up, and go fast, they have nothing to brag about, and no real reason to sponsor you when it comes to class eliminations.
Very well put, Alan, and you are right about the part NHRA has played in the
If there aren't any cars for you to race, that is not any fault of theirs. And you cannot reasonably expect a sponsor to pay for anything other than results and positive exposure.

Contingency sponsors are in business. This is not a hobby for them. It is how they make a living. Sponsor money comes from the marketing budget. Marketing must bring in customers.

Very few of us do this as anything other than a hobby. As such, if we're not producing real results for contingency sponsors, we have no reasonable expectation to be paid by them.

Something else needs to be clear here. Drag racing is the ONLY sport that will even begin to tolerate classes where only one car shows up to race. Go ANYWHERE else in the motorsports world, and see how long ANY class will last if no one shows up to race. Fans will refuse to watch one car race. If the fans are not watching, the sponsors are not getting anything for their marketing dollar. Were they in any other form of motorsports, about 90% of these classes that have 10 or less cars nation wide, would have long since been completely eliminated, or merged into something else.

Everyone needs to understand, no one owes you a place to race just because you build a car you like, or you can afford. For the tracks, for the promoters, and for the sponsors, racing is business, and most of the people on their staffs are trying to make a living and feed a family. For most of us, racing is a hobby, no matter what you spend. Those people trying to make a living do not owe us a place to play with our hobby toys out of the goodness of their hearts. We must give them something in exchange for the place to play with our hobby, or we can expect to have no place to play, because we have no reasonable expectation of having others pay for our hobby.

We ALL really have to look at this from the position of what the sponsors get out of what they spend on us. No matter how much you happen to like a particular class or car, if there's not much competition in that class, there's just no way you can reasonably expect a business to pay for that class.

Sure, maybe it only pays $100 for a win for each decal. But look at it like this. If 60-70 cars show up at a race that has class eliminations, odds are that only about 1/2 of those cars are going to have another car in their class, at best. So you have 30-35 or so cars making a single for class. If you have a big market share, say 50-60% or better, that means you're going to pay out $1500 or so for single passes. So you're paying $1500 per event that runs class, for something that does not pay you back in marketing results.

While some people will say "well, it's only $1500", but it isn't their money, and if it happens at 5-7 races, then it becomes $7500 or more. Now some people are going to say, "well, those companies make millions of dollars", but the fact remains, they make that money by spending wisely. Think about what other marketing they can buy for $7500 to $10K a year or more.

Now, to be fair about this, I think NHRA shoulders a ton of blame for this. They do such a poor job of promoting the classes, and such a poor job of showcasing class eliminations, that it severely cuts the value of the dollars that contingency sponsors spend to pay us. Further, while it does take some money for NHRA to manage the contingency program, their cut is entirely out of line for what they do for the money they are paid.

Last year, we had a class win, an event win, and a runner up, at one event, for two cars that I served as engine builder and crew chief on. So I was there to see what NHRA did as far as the contingency program was concerned. I can promise you they didn't spend a lot of money paying the guys that checked those two cars for decals on Sunday. We filled out the sheets, and showed them the decals. Then we had to show the contingency sponsors proof of purchase. It ain't like NHRA had a dozen people doing all the paper work for us.

There is plenty of blame for the current situation to go around. No one has to like it, but we all have to live with the facts and the reality of the situation. Companies are under no obligation what so ever to step up and pay contingency. In this economy, they absolutely must consider where they spend money, and what return they get for it. The simply fact is that several companies have gone bankrupt, some have survived, some have not.

Originally Posted by Dick Butler (Post 236917)

I understand that my previous posts have been removed as too controversial but all the comments without identifying the issues first is less helpful. Larry Hill discussed the factoring problems, some have identified the bye runs and others the announcer, the NHRA lack of publicity and sponsor money.
Individual fears about losing a place to race " the type" car they already know and own is a problem also.
There is only one place these can be solved and thats with honest NHRA evaluation and corrective actions.
THEY know the sponsor issues, they have been told the factoring issues, they control the epansive classes and combinations.
To Keep the identity of the S and SS as we know it, the basic rules must be preserved
To Keep fresh combinations being built they need the lower "guestimates" of HP but they MUST watch the performance or start them out as individual class (Like happened after several years of FI versus Carb)
Racers must accept that even though they found "the car", " the technology" to be fast or efficient, changes may come for the overall good of the S and SS Class structure.
NHRA should recognize that if Sponsors budgets are limited by the Per class demand, then either cut the costs or cut the classes to be fair to the budgets of the majority of sponsors. The pool of money left after paying winners should be less important to their budget than the overall success of the program.
NHRA must recreate their view of the AHFS and its application. Create a method to encourage performance every run not 1000 ft racing to save the HP.
Reward each winning run more than punishing with HP factors and it becomes worth it to get factored. Post Performance leaders each week in Dragster as "reward" for going fast. This would be like seeing your name on 16 top qualifiers at an event.
Points towards championship for Records , no factor. If you use the Et to WIN money then Hp factoring would seem more reasonable.
Cost to race is an issue, technology advances and rule "drift" upwards IS A FACTOR for all racers, now more than last year or prior.
NHRA could Cut the number of events used toward Championship points per division or National to give option to save one trip costs per racer.
OR have double meets at large track by running eliminator twice. Same qualifying sheet.
One set of time trials.
Cost per car could be addressed if people would accept change but these are some thoughts without those issues.
Thanks for reading.

Originally Posted by Evan Smith (Post 236502)

At events where Class Racing is contested:

For the purpose of Class Eliminations, combine classes to lessen the number of overall classes, and to increase the difficulty in winning. This is racing, not singling! I've singled for enough class trophies and don't feel any sense of pride from it. Raise the entry fee to anyone who wants to participate and have 100% of the money go back to the racers, but anyone wishing not to participate can pay regular fee and stay in normal class.


Example:
AA/S and AA/SA, run together.

A/S, B/S, C/S and the automatic versions all run in one class.

D,E, F

G, H, I

J, K, L

M, N, O

P, Q, R,

All FWD, run staggared tree off own index or class closest to weight break.

Of course I understand that this doesn't suit everyone, but we have to be proactive and accept changes for this to survive and potentially grow. There would be eight class champions and each would be well earned. Yes, you may have to swing some weight, but that's racing my friends.

At the same time change the following:

Award points for qualifying: 16 to the number one qualifier, then 15, 14, etc and 1 point for 16th place.

Award round-win points for rounds won during Class Eliminations. If you can earn points for a heads-up run in eliminations, why not get some points for Class. And combining classes would allow everyone an opportunity to earn some valued points.

Award 20 points for setting a national record, up to twice per season.

This is a simple reward for those who show up because they actually like the performance aspect of Stock and Super Stock.

Originally Posted by Jim Bailey (Post 239682)

One Change, and one addition. No Alky FC at the Pro National Events. I'd run Pro Mod instead. Then, Show case Alky F/C and Alky Dragster at the SportsNational Events, No nitro cars of any kind at Sportsmen Events for insurance reasons. The Addition would be, I'd make Bill Bader the Sportsman Series Director.