Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Have you ever noticed how, when Ed F. cannot answer the question at hand, his reaction is to change the subject and distract the reader by attacking the poster of the thread, bringing up issues that have no bearing on the subject matter?

That's his M.O., and it never changes; he thinks if he can discredit the credibility of the person who asked the question, maybe nobody will notice that he had NO ANSWER for the question that was asked.

That's the equivalent of what they used to call "yellow journalism," but it's his only line of defense for having no answer for the question.

I'm probably not tellling you anything you didn't already know... just thought it was worth mentioning.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

The only trouble with that is, laugh all you want, but until the problem is fixed, it's still with us.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

I didn't bring this subject up; somebody else did.

You raise some very good points about :what needs to be fixed in "NHRA Sportsman racing" and I agree with all of them, but regardless of the hierarchy of the problems at hand, I don't agree that you can't work on THIS problem as long as the others still exist. Can NHRA only do one thing at a time?

This is an "easy fix" compared with a lot of that other stuff, and what small amount of time/money that is involved in resolving it would certainly not preclude dealing with the other problems,should they ever atempt to fix any of THEM.

My opinion? That is a pretty weak argument against buying some software and installing it. That's all that needs to be done, and that doesn't sound very time-consuming to me.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Bill you're a lone bouy bobbing in the vast ocean.Put a fork in it .it's done.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Chad, can you refresh my memory, please? I really don't recall what it was that I agreed to...

Thanks,

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

[QUOTE=johnny shot;244210] "You want opinion or logic? Reason or fact? You keep changing your demands."


I already got your opinion, but it wan't based on logic, so, I thought you might want to re-think some of that. For instance:


"I don't think it's broken."



Then you think it's perfectly OK that when a AA/S car races a B/S car, the B/S car has a chance to red light, but if he does, the AA/S car will never get HIS chance to red light, which could be a worse infraction, and give the race to the B/S car? What is fair about that? Please tell me. Don't just say "Those are the rules," because it doesn't have to be that way; we can change that inequity.

"Fact? It's a current rule that we must abide by."


Keyword here is "current." Doesn't have to be that way.



"Logic? Once the first car red lights the race is over."


That's not logic; that's just the status quo. The status quo could change any day, if NHRA desides to change the rule. Where's the "logic", then?


"Opinion? It is the same for both cars. Some times you are first to leave, giving you the chance to eliminate your self. Some times you are second to leave, giving you the chance to win be your opponents red light."



It's the same for both cars? Tell me when the AA/S car will be the first to leave...
Never. Unless it's a slug and chooses a dial-in slower than his opponent, which COULD happen, but is highly unlikely. And, there are a LOT of top class cars out there, now...


"You asked for an opinion of a reason, don't know what that means."


Here's what that means: I'm sure you have an opinion about the reason(s) you think this anomaly is "not broken." You think that it's fine to have a rule that is giving the advantage of not having red light jeopardy if the slower car fouls, because..... (insert reason, here.)
I just wanted to hear how, in your mind, that kind of inequity can be justified.or condoned. That's all,



"These are the facts/reasons/opinions/logic AS I SEE IT. There is zero chance you will change my mind. You keep asking for a reason, indicating that if one is given you may change yours. I don't care one way or the other what you want, nor am I interested in changing your mind. You asked, I answered. I speak for myself, and don't care who is on the band wagon with me."

OK Fair enough.

QUOTE]

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

My point wasn't the time or ease of fixing the software/redlight program. My point was fix the BIG issues first, THEN work on the smaller issues.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

See; still no answer.... just another "KILL THE MESSENGER" post.

LOL! You are SO predictable...

From your "poll" it looks like I have a lot of company.... 70 people on this little board?

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Well, Mike, this problem has been around for 48 years; have any of the others been screwing people for that long?

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

As long? No. But the current issues are a MUCH bigger problem than a redlight rule that *might* come into play about 5-7% of the runs in a season.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Get a job with NHRA and change it./////// And good luck with that....This is all BS anyway.
CBHRA==== cry baby hot rod assoc...!@$!%$#%$^^@^@^@^$@. It is fun reading though.... lol

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Yeah,and 129 say you're wrong.But we're not going to let that difference get in the way
of letting a little old man have his last hurrah.
You're like Don Quixote chasing wind mills.In you're case chasing Chrondek Xmas trees.
Keep on ranting.We need you for the entertainment value.

And btw the third choice on the other poll is more related to leaving the rule as is.So both polls are consistent.
They're both about 63% to 37%.But you'll spin it off,as usual.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Spin this:

The first red light rule is a relic that came into being 48 years ago along with the advent of the Christmas tree. There was no software at the time to compare red lights, so the only alternative was to make the first car the loser, ignoring the second car to leave's reaction time, and sending him to the next round, regardless of whether he red lit, or how badly.

After a period of many years, the software has been developed to correct this glitch.

Why would any racer who values fairness not want to change and make it like the breakout rule (worse infraction loses)????

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Keep on killing the messenger... LOL!

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

You are one sick puppy.Don't you realize that no one (except you and Bunky) gives a
***** about this rule?
Go use your remaining time and energy to go out there and do something worthwhile
in life.
No on cares what your opinion is on this non issue.
Find another crusade.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Maybe we should change the breakout rule to whoever is closer to the dial, whether under or over, wins. C'mon Bill, to much changing, just to be changed.
Why don't we change the feeling we get when our pants are pulled down, we're bent over, and ram rodded with B.S. that we ALL don't want!!!

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

I am only requesting ONE CHANGE.

What are you talking about with your " C'mon Bill, to (sic) much changing, just to be changed." comment?

Sounds like you haven't been paying much attention... Let me guess; you run a higher class car...

And it's not at all "just to be changing." It's to give EVERYONE the same chance to red light. What's wrong with that?

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

NHRA, it’s time to fix the inequity of foul starts at the starting line. Don’t hesitate any longer on this issue. You couldn't get it right all those decades ago, but you can now.


Just fix it and be done with it: Foul start equity for everyone.


Who could possibly think it unfair?

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Obviously more people than those who want it changed.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Good luck getting it changed Bill. Just keep on ranting.
Guess it gives you something to do.

How about we all get to retire on a minimum of $200,000.00 a year. I mean a lot of guys have that, why not all of us? Only fair, right? LMAO

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Ed ! I like yor idea, About the poll, this just like voteing, the minority loses, the majority wins ! This S#IT is just like whats going on in Madison, Wi ! The minority tries to change the VOTER'S mind to suit there point of view !!!!!!!!!.......John

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

That would be fine with me, but who's gonna foot the bill? NHRA could effect this change with petty cash...

So, how about we just stay on the subject at hand? This is something that is do-able, and would benefit EVERYONE, except the few guys who campaign AA/S cars.

They have everything their way, as it stands (they NEVER have to leave first.)

Why should they enjoy that "gimmeee" at the expense of everybody else?

Think about it...

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

This kind of sums up old Bill and this thread.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk1ceWinU-E

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Ed,
You just can't stay focused on the subject, can you? Your character assination/KILL THE MESSENGER M.O. is so much easier than formulating an intelligent response, that you simply cannot resist...

I started online bulletin boarding on Prodigy (was the drag racing BB modulator) before the internet existed; that was in the early '90s, so I've had a long time to develop a thick skin against desultory comments from people like you, who think it makes them seem more knowledgeable than they really are.

The fact is, this first red light rule came into being ONLY as a result of the NHRA's being unable to fix it, like they did the breakout rule, 48 years ago, and kind of got shuffled into the "tha't's the way it's always been" category, so everybody, INCLUDING ME, eventually acccepted it as "the norm."

The, when it became possible (new software) to FIX it, people like you, who had been subject to its vagaries, for so many years, reacted with, "FIX WHAT???" They were so entrenched in the status quo, they couldn't understand the value in re-programing it so it would operate like the breakout software (worse infraction loses.)

So, now we have a majority of people thinking that it's just one more change to deal with.
And, they don't want another change. They can't or won't do the work of understanding what benefit it has for them...

Well, NHRA won't ever spend a plugged nickle for the software to fix it, because it won't make them ANY money... and, you know how that goes.

So, we're stuck with a 48-year-old rule that screws the first car to leave, EVERY time 2 cars go down the drag strip in a handicapped race.

Was it Warren Johnson, or somebody else who said, "You can't fix stupid"???

But keep on killing the messenger, if it makes you feel better... I've come to expect nothing of a rational, analytical, response from you... that would take some thought.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

You are the ultimate broken record.Skip,skip,skip,skip,skip,skips,skip........ ........................

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

if both cars are green, or just one car goes green (those two options would be about 95% of the time) then no one gets screwed.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Bill, it's not going to happen. Don't give yourself an ulcer.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

You're 100-percent correct.

But the POTENTIAL for a red light always exists.THAT is the scenario that is what all this is about, because it's totally unnecessary. Totally...

Is it a big deal? No.

Unless it's the final round at the U.S. Nationals, and you're the slower car, and you bulb with a near-telepathic-.999... while your faster competitor has a -.213, but, goes home with the money and the Wally...

Then, it becomes a big deal.

Has this ever hapened? I don't know, and the likelihood of it happening is small.

But it COULD.

And when/if it does, I hope it's Ed Fernandez, and his Gremlin, leaving first. :)

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

I remember Len Imbrogno told me one time that 90% of the polls taken result in a 60% to 40% vote. Looks as if this one is no exception. Jim

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Oh booo hooo hoooo you've damaged my self esteem.I'll never be the same.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

In your example the faster car still wins either way. -.999 is much worse than -.213

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Facts and simple math never get in the way of Bill's rants.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

i think he means -.001, but maybe math isn't his strong suit

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Ed,
I apologize for damaging your self-esteem with my flawed math.There's no excuse for a stupid mathematical error like that. My bad.

What I MEANT to say, to illustrate my point, was; the first car to leave has a near-telepathic red light (-.001) while the next car to leave has a worse infraction (-.021) but, due to this antiquated timing system, goes home the winner.

If you think there's anything logical, desirable, or fair about that, I'd like to hear it.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

I too, keep looking for logical reasoning here . It keeps me coming back ,often.

Most of the time , all I see is personal attacks or red herring issues.

I f someone wants to make the case the the faster cars are already under too many disadvantages and the current red light system helps even things out, I'd like to hear THAT.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Mark, doesn't matter. Not going to happen. I don't care either way, but I'm not stupid enough to get all bent out of shape over it, and think NHRA or IHRA is ever going to spend the time or money to change it.

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

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Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

Okay, let’s try it this way then. New rule:


*No reaction time, nor any indication of a reaction time, shall be revealed or displayed until both cars have registered a reaction time.*


Now what in the world could possibly be unfair about that?

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

OK, now all you guys just sit there and hold your breath until it changes. LMAO

Re: Redlight Poll (Revised)
 

PERFECT!!!

That would fix all that's wrong with this antiquated, unfair, skewed system!!!

I can't wait!!!

Thanks, Bunkster; you da man!!!! :)