Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

i doubt you can out wheelstand some of the 427/396 camaros. Hell i know of one orange 69 camaro that i KNOW you can't out wheelstand.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

What is your index with the 330 hp crate engine, and what do you have to weigh?
And I'm not trying to argue. Just curious.
I don't run Stock, so don't really care either way about this.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Don't like the rule structure?Stay the f*ck up in Canada and have fun with your bracket car.We try to give a civil conversation and you both admit you just wanted to stir the $****.
a$$holes like you two give some a bad view if Canada.Mybe you should spend time
rolling the stone in the exciting game of curling.
Those jr dragster kids are waiting to kick Mr F Bombs ***** if he has the balls to venture into the real world.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Ed, you really need to come out of your shell, and say what you really think. LMAO!

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

11.95 index...it was 12.00

just got de-rated from 340 back to 330

When it was 340hp I had to weight 3400lbs I actually crossed the scales at 3465 with me in it. So its not that easy to make it happen. This year will be worse because of the -10 decrease in hp. Might have to move into I/CM because I dont have the heart to gutt the car to find 96 lbs.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Mike Petrie bent the license plate on his H/CM Camaro at Rockingham a few years ago. :rolleyes: Although wheelies are fun, I don't know that they are applicable to the argument here. You could argue that giant wheelstands are not necessarily conducive to quick E.T.'s, and it's certainly not a factor in consistency.

Actually, I'm still trying to figure out what the argument *is* here... 1) NHRA's not going to change anything so it's a moot point for one side to push the argument, and at least as bad for the other side to get defensive about it, and 2) you've got a guy that built a car to the rules that he wanted to build, and has fun with it. All this NHRA vs IHRA or this car vs that car stuff is irrelevant.

For reference, the 360 Magnum crate motor is rated at 325hp. In I/CM (10# class) min. weight 3420, index 12.10. The index would be similar to F/SA (old index 12.15, 10.5# class). Compare to a '72 340 rated at 299, which has to weigh 3310. (Although just for arguments sake, a crate motor in the traditional weight break system would be more like an E/SA, so there'd be more like a 260lb difference.)

360 crate - 9.6:1 comp, .458/.467 cam w/ 1.6 rocker, .060 dish piston, 1.925/1.625 head, 57.7 cc
340 standard - 9.32:1 comp, .462/.473 cam w/ 1.5 rocker, flat top piston w/ notches, 1.88/1.60 heads, 64.7 cc

What's all that worth on the track? Ahdunno. The crate motor has some intake/carb advantages, etc which offsets some of the 110lb (260lb?) weight difference, but they're certainly more comparable than the new cars. The 360 DragPak has better specs all the way around than my crate motor, and it's rated 50hp less (which is why there's more than one being put together at Sloan Racing Engines)

I have no problem with crate motor remaining solely an IHRA thing. *IF* NHRA ever did anything (and I don't think they would), you'd think they'd show up in Super Stock GT first. Come to think of it, you'd think it'd make sense to combine crate motors in IHRA with Stock GT.

/ramble

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Ok I get it now...build a whole new combo and then its ok to run NHRA stock. Id rather not quote any of your posts because I have been in the internet war with you before and really its all verbal diarea as far as im concerned. Its ok to allow VW's into superstock, its ok for the new mustangs to have a blower and run at half of thier potential, its ok for the new chalenger to have an intake big enough for a top fuel car and apparently its now ok for a CRATE ENGINE 352 and 428 cube engine to run in the new mustang...????

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

:rolleyes:

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Not for nothing, for all the arguing going on here, this could be Ed Fernandez's long lost brother.

http://www.banditoracing.com/images/...track/bnd6.jpg

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Who said anything about the rule structure? We race the same rules you do...there is a section in the IHRA rulebook that is for cratemotor and it gives the weight breaks, intake rule, carb rule, and everythink else is the same for STOCK. Im not here to sturr the pot im here to maybe get this through your thick scull...There is no difference between your stocker an my stocker...they are both stock eliminator cars...mine has a "replacement engine"...better known as a crate motor if you didnt know already and it is no different then a 350/295hp stocker combo....its the same thing, built the same, runs the same, sounds the same...bla bla bla. You think that this is some kid of witchcraft?

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Thanks bro...ya thats my dad. He lost his battle to cancer in 2008. I actually built this car for him to race. And now that hes gone I race it for him. He wanted it to be a 396/375hp combo but we were on a time frame to build the car because cancer was quickly killing him. He was able to race a week before he died.

Dont you feel special for posting that pic

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

See, here is what you don't seem to grasp. NO, it is NOT okay for any of those things to happen. Not at all. It has been FORCED upon us by NHRA, we never wanted it, we never said it was okay. So your argument that since that stuff is okay, then crate motors should be okay, doesn't hold water, not even a drop. NONE of it was okay with the vast majority of racers, it is just okay with NHRA, Ford, and Chrysler. So you expect us to say that, since NHRA has already screwed us, again, and screwed up the class, we will be just overjoyed to let them add something else that we don't want. That's a pretty ludicrous expectation. It's like telling a rape victim that, since she's already been raped, she should be okay with three or four more to step up and take their turn, too.

Let me spell it out for you, so you can grasp it. No, the things that you listed were NOT okay with the racers, and no, adding crate motors on top of all of the other things we did not want, is not okay.

Can you grasp it now?

In case you don't get it, the vast majority of NHRA class racers are sick of having things forced upon them, from higher fees for everything, to absurd schedules, reduced contingency payouts, stagnant purses, and the new underfactored cars. So don't expect them to want to have your crate motor program forced upon them., either. There's a reason car counts are down, and local grass roots combo programs are springing up. The racers are fed up.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Yes, Its ok to run a VW in SS, but in case you havent been reading the message board. It isn't ok with the majority of people to allow Ford and Dodge to scheme the system by putting cars in the guide that were never produced. Same goes for your Crate. You built it knowing well and good that NHRA doesn't want you, now you want in. You keep making reference to old guys needing to give it up, but I bet I'm younger than you and I get that the basis of STOCK (Not bracket II) is that it was once a car that was available off the show room floor. I might not know what car came with what, but it sure intrest me to find out when I see it at the races. I walk right by a CM. I guess I didn't grow up thinking that everyone gets a trophy and rules should be changed to accommodate an outcast.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

1, Yes ,now you've got it.

2, If you DID want to get into an internet war with me, you'd have to read,write and spell past a 4th grade level.

3, VW's belong in Modified Eliminator, along with the rest of the hood scoop cars, if you want my opinion.

4, Blower, Turbos are fine with me if they came with the car in sufficient quantities and are rated properly.
If you think I'm in favor of Crate Motors of any kind in Stock, you've got the wrong guy.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Wow, whole lot of animosity here.

1) Chipper if you can't find the parts (I'm in Elmsdale, i agree there are no parts around here...anywhere!) then either get them sent up from the states or build something new enough that the junkyards do have it. Run Class in the Miramichi or greenfield, Sydney or travel to an IHRA track in the states.

2) Crate motors still have all the spec's to follow that stockers do, just different rules/spec's.

3) NHRA will never add crate motors so what's the argument about?

4) I'm from Canada and would take offence to some of the stuff posted but I know it's in the "heat of posting". Don't even start with the "we beat you" or we'll come down and burn down the whitehouse again LOL!
This is a classracing site, relax on the politics.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Didn't mean any disrespect. He and Ed look very similar in my opinion.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Jumpin' Jeezus, must be somethin' wrong with my computer! I punched up Class Racer and got www.catfight.com.:D Pat6868

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

not one stocker came off the showroom floor and ran low 11s high 10s etc. If you think you can slap a CM car together and be competitive, go for it. Mike gave a pretty good example of the differences between a CM and a "real" stocker. To ad to that you still have rules and regs to live by. It's not bracket 2 as you refer to. No 9" fords in any GM CM car. Now I do agree that the CM cars should have a engine combo that is close to what was avail in that body style. IE 350 in camaro etc. But for you NHRA elitists that turn your nose down at these cars stop and take a min to look at one and see what they are all about. Bash on

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I don't think I ever implied that these cars were running 10's off the showroom floor. Only that they were available with the engine/trans combo that is in the race car that runs 10's with stock parts. Thats the difference between a real stocker and a bracket car. Stock is part muscle car show, and should stay that way. Throwing whatever engine you please into whatever body you have is a bracket car, no matter how nice its built.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I am glad you finally got it.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

That sounds like SS/GT ! I couldnt resist. All of you sound like the idiots in congress arguing over how to screw the public. Just re read some of your posts a look at how dumb it all sounds. NHRA wont be doing it except with the new junk so get over it and move on.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Actually he seems to have been much better looking than me.There's a small resembalence though.I'm sorry for your loss.He did seem to have a good grasp of Stock,wanting to build a 396/375 combo.Too bad it didn't transfer down to you.Nice to hear that he did get to race the car.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

2) you've got a guy that built a car to the rules that he wanted to build, and has fun with it. All this NHRA vs IHRA or this car vs that car stuff is irrelevant.

Michael,read their reasoning.They want NHRA to bend to their wishes.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Terry, we arn't talking about SS at all. But Yeah, that's why it's Super Stock, and look how the new crate motors are doing in GT. Same thing will happen if CM are in stock. NHRA and the manufactures will STICK it to traditional combinations by rating CMs low, and when they get hp, they will throw different rockers on it and claim a whole different motor with another bogus number.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

It's unfortunate that people can't have a civil academic discussion without it devolving into a childish flamewar.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Just read it all again. Its pretty clear to me who took it to that level, in which myself an 90% of the people not in favor of CM in NHRA did not go. % on the other side is a little different. I'm just sayin.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Actually this thread started when CrateMotor asked if NHRA had ever considered allowing crate motors in stock. Then the crate motor and IHRA bashing started, just the way I've read it.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I agree.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Who do you agreeing with ED? You posted 1 min after the post in front of you who is claiming that you were bashing CM and IHRA. I don't read it like that at all. People just said, Why on earth would you build a CM and only race IHRA? Thats not bashing. What they were bashing was the lame excuse that CM are easier to find so NHRA should allow them. Go look again, Cratecamaro and his buddy from Canada are the ones who brought out the useless name calling and insults. None before that.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I do agree with the notion of not building a car to run one santioning body. However where we are geographically we don't have many NHRA tracks close. Now I have a question are there not some replacement parts allowed for some combos? If I'm wrong I apologize but if so what would be a difference between that and allowing a CM car, say a natural E car running aluminum heads and just make them add weight? Isnt this the case with another combo. I know you're going to say they came with both options. But the good cores are getting harder to find and more expensive. Just a thought

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

In fact NHRA DID consider a crate motored class right after IHRA added them to their eliminator many years ago. It was close to being a done deal. They were to be a "SPEC" car with only the newest current year body style (a T-Bird for Ford.....not a Mustang) and of course GM and MoPar combos AND with their own classes seperate from the other stockers but I dont remember the body styles they were going to require for GM and MoPar. It defeated the purpose of a lesser expensive way to race by requiring all brand new spec body styles and new engines of NHRA's choosing so it was dropped. This was way before $100,000 factory built stockers came into vogue. So now we have the crate combos in the new cars except they get to beat up on the regular older combos in the same class so dont ever say never.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I'm agreeing with you about who took this thread to name calling. I didn't bash crate motors or IHRA. The "other" Ed may have. I'm not going to go back and read them all to find out what he may have said What I said was why build a car that can only run with one sanctioning body (either one) then expect the other one to accommodate them. Makes no sense.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Chad said it all 8 pages ago. Maybee some people just arn't cut out for NHRA Stock. Doesn't mean you don't have a place to race in IHRA, and it doesn't mean that the performance and the specs are not equal in both. I don't think anybody said your not equal on that, but you guys keep saying we are uninformed about CM and think that anybody can make one fly (quote somebody on that). NO, we just don't want CM over in NHRA because we believe it will totally ruin the IDEA of stock. You guys have this preconceived notion that we don't want CM because we don't think your equal in building and tuning ability. Nobody said that. I don't care what it cost for an old core or if "some" parts are allowed replacements. It aint the same as a replacement engine in a body that never came with it. That ain't Stock, Thats Super Stock. If you only want to run IHRA and have enough races in your area that you can get away with a CM, Go ahead. But don't get mad at me for not appreciating your ride as much, or not wanting your theory in NHRA Stock.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I do apologize after rereading from the beginning you are correct on who started what. The gentleman who started the thread was the one if NHRA had considered adding these crate motors was not the one who started the fire that came later. The only thing I would add is that these crate motor cars are class cars, maybe not what you guys consider class but indeed they are they were built to specifications required by class. I really don’t see that big of a deal about these cars other than that. I too am more impressed by what you guys call the pure class but these guys do some impressive things with these cars too. Should NHRA add them? It shouldn't matter I mean how and why would it affect the other classes that you run other than having possibly more cars at an event. People just don’t like change, I look at like this if I ran our business the same way it was run 30 years ago where do you think we would be? Sometimes you have to change with your surroundings and environment. Just my thoughts and again I apologize to Mr Gary.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

The crate motors cars were devised by IHRA to fill the low turnouts they get.NHRA's
least problem is having enough NHRA legal stockers to fill a field.The low turnouts
presently in NHRA nationals are attributable to both economic and the racers being pi$$ed off at the organization for the many enhancements brought upon us in the recent past.Crate motors are IHRA's baby and that's where they will stay.
And Ed I only fired back in retaliation.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

No need for an apology, You didn't offend. Thanks for keeping your points level headed and admitting when you misread or misinterpreted something. Alot of us feel like if CM would be allowed to compeate against a traditional stocker heads up that we all know what the factory will start doing with their CMs and NHRA will just lay down for them. It would totally change the idea of stock. We still have plenty of legit cars and engine combos to go through before a CM is needed.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Another racer was right: Some of these stock class racers will argue over a lug nut...Go figure?

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Chipper....See what you started!!!!!

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

Chipper, on a positive note, I'm sure you could convert your car to NHRA specs with an engine swap for little expense. There is a market for crate engines and stocker engines are advertised for sale also. There are also many racers who may have the parts you need. Then you can race wherever you choose. From what I've seen, it's just as expensive to race a crate as it is a traditional stocker and I can appreciate the effort required for both.

Re: Crate Engines in NHRA?
 

I only read part of this but here is my take:
NHRA guys don't understand a cratemoter. Cratemotors were not designed by the "Anti-Christ"

Nothing wrong with a cratemotor.

Question How many cratemotor cars out there. My guess would be 50 or less, and mainly in the south east. Probably as many dp's and cj's.

With that being said I'll be NHRA drops Comp and combines S/SS before Crate moters will run there.
Chip Johnson