Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Vic,
Try this link.
Bob Rice
http://albums.photo.epson.com/j/Albu...&a=31054000&f=

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

For those of you who don't know Bob Rice. He is the Fletcher and Biondo of collecting "drag car pictures".
The man has an unbelievable collection.

Tom Sheehan

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Vic, I have seen pictures of George's '58 "Toyko Rose" Pontiac. The one I saw photos of was a 4-door. I guess that was after the sedan deliveries were ruled illegal with a Hydro???

I wonder if anyone pulled the hydro out and stuck a Powerglide in, just to see what it would run? Of course, those were the old, cast iron Powerglides... but the hydros were ungodly heavy. Once, I weighed my setup, and I included everything; bell housing, torus cover, two torus members, and tranny... TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY POUNDS... whew!!!

By the time the NHRA made the hydro's illegal, Art Carr and Marvin Ripes had done some developmental work on Powerglide converters, I am sure. There may not have been a lot of difference in their e.t.'s with a 'Glide and a better converter, by then... I dunno.

I'd love to know if anyone ever did a comparison. Surely, somebody did. I thought I saw an A-1 (Ripe's) logo on Dianna's sedan delivery. He might have had a 'Glide in there at one time or another...
Dick Butler???

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Dwight,

I never got to see that '52 Olds of Jack's run. I had moved out of the stste by the time he was running that car, I guess. He was a very innovative racer, though, from what I heard. Didn't he run a '59, or so, Pontiac wagon in Super Stock with a 2bbl and a manual transmission? I seem to remember reading that he was very successful.

Bill

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Did anybody make a conv. for the 58 hydro

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

When I bought John Diannas Sedan Delivery it was third hand. Used up motor. Most of the trick one off parts were not on the car by that time. Stahl carbs, adjustable headers and maybe even a trick trans and convertor. I was on my first race car. I bought it as a way to learn. I couldnt set the timing alone. Every week end I ran and tried to learn more about the operation of a race car. Then the rule change to no HYDRO or vette motor in Sedan Delivery.
I will post pictures of the conversion of the panel to a 2 dr wagon PG car.
I shipped the motor to John Dianna who rebuilt it and I bought the trans from Marv and started to run locally. We Ran Indy 71 R/U to barkley in O/SA the car which became Ripes 57 or reverse. I got down to 13.98 but very little Jr. Stock help to speed my learning.
My blue wagon never was very fast as I was very low on experience. I know Supinski converted his panel then and ran mid 13.60s I believe. It was a heavier car than the panel but I think they then dominated the class over the 57 cars. I think the numbers were similar once they were worked out by experienced people.
I have pictures of his converted at the Gators.

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Tom,
Thanks for the kind words but I wouldn't go that far. There are guys out there that have great collections but some of them just don't seem to want to share them. I've been fortunate enough to have good people trust me with their collections and share them with the world. All of them have been amazed at just how many people there are that enjoy seeing those old pictures. So, if anyone has any old pictures tucked away in a closet, just let me know and I will be happy to scan them for you.
Bob Rice

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Vic,
The '58 transmission (called "Jetaway" by Olds and "Strato-Flight" by Pontiac, was an outgrowth of the transmission that everybody used in the sedan deliveries, but with some basic differences. No parts would interchange between the two, that I am aware of.

First off, neither transmission used a torque converter, per se. They both used fluid couplings, which are nothing but a torque converter without a stator.

Fluid couplings allow slippage so that the engine can run at an idle without moving the car when it's "in gear."

Torque converters do that PLUS they have the capability of multiplying input-shaft torque like a conventional gearset. They get this additional capability through the use of a "stator", a set of rotating fins which redirects fluid so that it hits the driving turbine at an angle. As I try to explain how this works, I realize that I am in no way qualified to try to illustrate how this accomplishes torque multiplication..

Trust me; it does.

Lacking this torque-multiplying capability, the hydros (both of them) had, of necessity, first gear ratios in the high 3's, or low 4's. A TH350/400 could get by with something like a 2.45:1 ffirst geat because they had the torque multiplication from the converter to help get the car rolling.

It was possible to modify the fluid couplings in the hydramatic transmissions to increase stall speed by reducing the amount of vane area exposed to fluid, but there was no change in gearing like you get with a high-stall onverter.

Generally speaking, I believe that as stall speed increases, so does the amount of torque multiplication; not so with the fluid couplings. It's still 1:1.

If I'm wrong about that converter/stall business, somebody please correct me.

At any rate, the '58-up hydros were thought to be somewhat less efficient than the earlier units, but still could be a workable racing transmission. Lots of Pontiacs, in particular, ran really fast times with those dual-coupling hydros.

I don't think that stall speed was a problem.

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Ok so say i'm building a Jr stocker nowadays and plan on driving it to say car shows/nostalgia meets that sort of thing.should i


build it exact with this hydro thing i can probly never find or afford or find parts for or

leave the muncie in it?

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

We shouldnt forget Bob Burkett(sp) with the "Behemoth" or HillBilly Duncan who ran hard in Div 3 with the Dodge wagons. Great cars. Roger England ran a SS/DA . Red Baracuda I think.

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

WagonKiller,

Since the hydros were outlawed, it would be just as "correct" to buld a sedan dlivery with a 'Glide as the hydro. You're probably right; it would be difficult to find all the pieces for a hydro setup, nowdays, although that was the OEM transmission for Chevy pickups and panel trucks with V8s in '57, '58, etc... Thousands were made...

An aluminum 'Glide with a state-of-the-art converter would probably outrun the same vehicle with a hydro, anyway, if you care... Those hydros had 4-speeds, alright, but the rotating mass was CONSIDERABLE.

A manual 4-speed would also be very cool...

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

i have a 56 sedan de livery that i was going to build,but don't have the energy.i talked to bud rowe about it and he said that he ran one.more f these than i thought. randy

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

I think i'll build one just like this.

http://www.freewebs.com/stmcreations/5600.jpg

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

now if they would drop the year ban on old cars in Stock ! Neat but expensive. to restore maybe.

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Great pic.s reminds me of Ralph Truppi s wagon/car , and all the pic.s of cool cars on the wall at his shop.

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Biggg,
I remember Bud having a 57 sedan delivery, the "Wagon Master", but I don't recall a 56. Ed McGlawhorn had a M/SA 56 though that I know ran at Suffolk.
Bob Rice

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

WagonKiller,
It's amazing how those pictures have worked their way around the web. Good luck with your build.
Bob Rice

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

You can't forget Marv Ripes' Corvette and the Jesel Brothers Junior Stocker.

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

I have a vague recollection of Cureton running a '58. There were a few '58 Pontiacs around and a friend of mine ran one for a couple years. Craig Muller was his name and he was from NJ. He was also a pro bowler and made the TV show a few times. '58's had a lot of different engine combos possible with various induction and cams, both hydraulic and solid (McKeller). All were 4 speed hydros and were some very cool cars to me at the time. I owned one myself, a 2dr hdtp Chieftain and ran some 14 second times with my "street" car. It had a set of 4.56's in it to run fast and was a little rediculous towing a '57 Sedan Delivery with it ! The sedan Delivery did have a Vitar Hydro and it did weigh a ton and was a serious pain in the butt to bolt that "not a converter" together as it had a paper gasket and a lot of bolts. Who was the best Jr Stock racer of all time? Thats a very tough question as there were many guys that had a lot of success. I can tell you that any car that had Jenkin's Competition on it was usually fast and Cureton was always fast, but there were just too many real good cars and drivers to name one. Every track had a dominant group and then there were the guys who did real well at races like Indy....that was the biggest measuring stick back then was winning a National event....period

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

So sorry bob my bad for not giving credit where credit is due.

Most pics i have seen and great quality too in Bob Rice's albums!Unbelivable amount of drag racing history recorded by this guy for all to see!



Thank you Bob!!!!!!!! In more ways than one!

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Hi, I'm new to the board but have been reading this forum for a long time.
My vote for best Jr. Stocker is for a team and not an individual. I live near Lansing MI and my vote would be for the "CHEVAIRS RACING TEAM". Headed by Dick Griffin, this team had an exceptional record of Class wins at the US Nationals in 1964-1965 era.
They won Jr. Stock Elim. both years. Two members went on to win World Finals, Doug Kahl and Bill Hanes.

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

D.--Welcome to the forum . I raced Dick Griffin around 1973--he had an Olds wagon that he drove to the track --all the way from Lansing, MI to Suffolk , Virginia --very impressive at that time...........

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Don't forget some of the south east greats the Barnett brothers, Platt, Platt & Payne , Harold Dutton, there are a lot more I just can't think of there names right now. I must be getting old!!!

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

WagonKiller,
I wasn't referring to you about the picture just the fact that so many people have hijacked them and put them on their own websites with no credit to the photographers. I know that once you put a picture out there it's up for grabs but at least they could give proper credit. I have close to 1000 Stock, Super Stock, Modified and Comp pictures that I would love to share but I didn?t take them and I know what would happen if I put them in a public album.
Take care,
Bob

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

wow, I went through all 11 pages and noody mentioned John Archambault!

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

This is for Dick Butler,
Do you know what ever happend to the 56 wagon you got off John Diana ? also do you have any pictures of your early race cars you could share with us?
Thank you , Myron

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Don Scholl...

Wow... I can't believe I failed to mention John Archambault, either. I used to follow his progress in Drag News (or, was it National DRAGSTER???) back when Class racing was an every week affair, and they listed the Class winners and told their e.t.'s.
His car was a twin to mine... just about half-a-second quicker.... then, three quarters of a second quicker... as my frustration mounted. My parter, Harry Sparks, didn't seem to be any better at reigning him in than I was.

His ability to extract power from a 220 hp 283 and get it to the ground in a chassis that as far as I was concerned, was a rolling traction problem, was incredible!!!

He proved to be all but unbeatable in H/SA, then M/SA after NHRA changed the class structure (always 15 pounds per HP.)

After he changed classes and started running a Hemi Barracuda (A/MP?), he continued his winning ways, but by then, nothing he did surprised me; he had broken my spirit with his '57 Chevy...

Totally awesome racer...

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Don Scholl,
Did you ever race a SS/CA 65 Dodge?
Bob Rice

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Myron, I traded the wagon to some guys in southern indiana. Hostettler and Ingersol. They painted it silver and ran for a while. Then it went to Indy I believe and was Green. The guy in Indy would never tell me where it went. I'd Like to get it back but cant find it....Any ideas where it is ? you are in the area.....Will try to scan my photos in....
Dick

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Here you go Don and Bill..........

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...bia2-ville.jpg

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Jack, that would have been the 1973 Little Guy Nationals. I got by Dick in about the 3rd round and went on to win the event. Ran a C/S AMX in the final. Dick was one of my heros. I recall calling him in 1962, with a lot of questions, when I got my first Corvair. Dick won J/S at the 1964 Nationals with a turbocharged Corvair Convertible. In private life I believe he was a Corporate pilot (hence the turbo charging knowledge).

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Tom Sheehan,

Thanks a bunch for posting that picture of my nemesis, John Archambault's sedan delivery. Anybody who thinks getting one of those quasi-wagons to hook, with 17.4:1 overall first gear multiplication should try it... on 7" tires, BTW.

I read somewhere that he was a high school physics teacher. I can believe it.

Too bad he's not on this board... maybe he'd share some of thos speed secrets, now, 40 years later...

Loved that name (HYDROPHOBIA.) Wanted to call our car "Hydro-Magic", but never got around to getting it painted.

Thanks again, Tom... That was a cool thing to do.... You made an old man smile!!! :)

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

1664SS/JA,
Great pictures. I use to read about Joe in some of those old obscure east coast magazines. Would love to have a larger scan of the 57 hardtop pic.
Thanks,
Bob Rice

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

1664---- Had plenty of good times with Joe D. The best, 1972 World Finals, Amarillo,Texas

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Mark, Thanks for posting those pics of The Moon . Joe was one of a kind and I'm very fortunate to have had him as a friend and team mate. There wasn't much that he didn't know about Chevrolets. If he didn't know the answer to a problem, he'd go right to work at it until it was solved.
I'm sure you know , Joe Moon engineered the clutch linkage in that Chevy II you have. He used a Camaro 9 o'clock bellhousing and a narrowed Camaro cross shaft and figured out all the pivot points until it worked just like the factory setup. Duffy actually sold those kits for a while.
It was a sad day for alot of us, when Joe left us . He was quite a character .
It's great to see that Amarillo picture again. I won't name all the characters in that one . Wouldn't want to ruin anybody's reputation. The number of people in the photo (9) has a significance to another part of the story that weekend. Maybe later....
Thanks again for posting

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

Hard to belive that nobody mentioned ELK'S HEAD SERVICE out of Newark Oh.

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

The picture is grainy but it looks like Joe Kenney among the crew. I didn't know him well but he was a good guy. My 1968 Chevy II H/S was sold to Rich Decola and Paul Delvecchio in about 1971. They raced it in stock and then superstock.....The Connecticut group of racers were very good. Dave Lebrun would have been my pick for best racer from that area. His '69 was a 4-speed and ran A/S and we ran him a couple times. One night we both went .05 under our records and he won as my partner turned on the red lite....We had some good Stock races at Island. Anybody remember the Div. 1 Stock Circuit races. Butch Uhrick organized it and ran it like Dave Ley does today. We were number 1 qualifier once at something like .11 under the national record. The old days were fun......but there gone......

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

I agree elks head service worked on alot of stockers. Dave boertman's car comes to mind.

Bruce

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

WOW...thanks very much for that picture of my old Chevy II. Same number on it, 1888 and that went back to our sedan delivery days. We set the H/S record at Atco in Sept.1970 and D&D set the SS/J record with it the year when Stock got dumped. That car had almost every color possible on it so my friend named it "Little Multicolor". It belonged to Andy Spaziani and was run as a 396/375 in SS/D before we got it. Decola is driving in that picture and 12.06 on the window is faster than we ever went, The only pictures I have of that car are from the day we sold it. T/K was building the Chevelle when we were putting that car together......

Re: lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?
 

I knew Joe D. very briefly and will never forget him hitching a ride to MIR with Jimmy Lovallo and myself. I had alot of questions for him that night and he had the answers and some amazing stories too. I sat and listened for hours. He was a great and gracious guy and I was lucky to meet him. He gets my vote.