Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

It's interesting to me how much alike Billy and I think and what we seem to be aware of. I am going to have to be quicker on the draw these days or he will empty my list for me!!

Here is one that is similar, Billy. In fact, you mention it and we can see this one race on the West Coast.
1977 or 79 Pacer station wagon 258/110/150 for V/SA or a 1977 Hornet SW or 1979 Concord SW for U/SA

Decent compression for a 6 cylinder, decent cylinder head (real ports!), better bore-stroke relationship than BIlly's MoPar, and a 2-bbl carb. Uses a 998 Torqueflite with a 2.74 first gear and has lots of Jeep history. Jim Mantle qualifies in the top of the field in Div 7 with this combination.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Dwight, I know that combo all too well. I constantly have to deal with Eddie Fernandez's Gremlin.

Mark, the reason that I tend to like 2V combos (especially the Buick) is they're less likely to hurt themselves (and to stay out of expensive classes).

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

That combo is a stinker.It's taking me to the poor house.
Dwight,I'd say that you two were seperated at birth,but you're way too good looking to be twins.:>):>):>)

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

I want to thank Billy and Dwight for a weekend of eye opening facts and Mark too with follow up info. Great thread, I am sure some folks are taking notes and we will actually see a few of these combos in the coming months. Great job guys.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

I'm sure that I can speak for Dwight and Mark and say we hope so!

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Billy and I have picked what we consider to be low hanging fruit to show some inexpensive ways to go racing. Most of the engine combinations we picked are available in a variety of bodies that will run in classes other than the very heavy classes we recommended in our selections. As a general rule, a 2-bbl combination is at a disadvantage in a class where competitive 4-bbl combinations race in heads-up races. However, there are statistically few heads up races during a year's activities, so don't let that deter you from considering on of these engines in a lighter car. Ed F. certainly hasn't.

The object here is to be able to race without adding to the national debt. You may not be a record holder or a super star with the performance of any of these cars, but you will be racing and the fun factor is high. By the way, it's the challenge and the fun, not the going fast, that builds memories, relationships and experience.

There are lots of other combinations too. Maybe not as cheap as these, but lots cheaper than what most people spend.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

You silver-tongued devil you!

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

OK, here's another mopar that will get into "U"
1979 Aspen SE station wagon with a 318/135/185 (natural break is 19.13,add weight to make U) The small 2bbl would be a limiting factor, but the coolness of a station wagon with woodgrain is undeniable!

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Actually, Ronnie, the 318 2-bbl at 185 is one of those "Why doesn't somebody do that?" combinations for me. I know everyboy complains that the carb is too small, but the '65 273 with the same specs is rated at 176. Surely 45 cubic inches is worth 9 hp!

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Here's another Ford for "U"

83 t-bird 232 v-6 @ 140hp

1.08 2bbl
1.795/1.47 valves (bigger than 302)
.415/.417 lift (bigger than 302)
Outer springs WITH damper
Huge cleveland style aluminum heads with 1.73 rocker arms

Fox body t-bird so all mustang stuff fits (C4/headers/gears/struts/etc)

Downside is hard to find parts/not supported.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

I think that Mark Yac was looking at that car some years ago. I would put it on the list of "why hasn't someone built this" combos. Mark probably passed on it because of where he lives. Seems like a good "sea level" car though.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

And I'll bet that a good scrounge could really "dime" that one together.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

This has been a very enlightening thread. I'd say one of the best in ages on this forum. Yes, I've already taken Billy's advise and copied down what he wrote on the starting thread, plus a good bit of the other information. I may just do the front end, rear end and put some sheet metal back onto my Firebird, build a "cheap" engine, per some of this information. Relatively speaking, this car could be at the track next spring?

Course, now, I've got the sub frame connectors, roll bar and all those IHRA crate motor parts laying around. Something for the future.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Billy,
Not sure how economical the Aspen wagon would be. In this area any kind of old station wagon brings good money if you can find one, I don't remember the last time I saw an Aspen wagon from this era around here.
I'm thoroughly enjoying this thread, keep em coming.

Jimmy Parker

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

There's a couple of bracket Volare/Aspen wagons floating around North Carolina. One is a decked-out Super/Pro car, but the other is a good Stocker candidate driven by a local track champ... the Legend and I have been working on him for a couple of years now, but just haven't quite got the hook set!

One of the cars that got me interested in Stock Eliminator in the first place was Charlie DeHaven's O/SA Aspen Wagon (US13 Dragway home track). I think he mostly bracket raced it, but it sounded mean! I remember a Mopar Performance-backed Aspen Wagon in a Mopar magazine when I was a kid, and even then they talked about switching it to the 2bbl combo.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Well, there was R.V's C/SM Camaro and Arlen's Maverick...... why not???

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Thank you guys for a interesting weekend of reading.

I know of one more, but it probably is too expensive to build
since it is a 4 bbl version.

1966 Valiant 2 dr Formula S 273/4 bbl/4 speed, I suppose
it really is similar to Willie B's daughter's 1965 car, but?

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

goinbroke2,
I tried the '83 T-Bird V6 and ran out of money, (fixed income). Carb is 1.08 and if it had a manifold to go with it,maybe? Intake is a smog piece with three 3/4" tubes running thru the plenum for EGR use. They take up all the plenum. A switch to a '84 TBI (2BBL-not legal) manifold brought a .5 second improvment. 16.30 ET's at Bakersfield were my best and then Mark built the turbo Mustang! No cam blanks for this engine exsist. I'm too old to start over, so it became a "bracket car", with a junk yard 5.0L V8, instant 13.60's and goes rounds. Thanks for the thread, very enlighting, Fred

P.S. I have over 600 runs on the 6 cyl AOD trans (shift kit, small convertor) and 7.5" Equalok rear end (4.10 gears) without breakage. (1.90, 60ft's)

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Grr. Seriously? There's an information blackout in the Guide completely covering the production years of the Buick Reatta! :(


In regards to the 225 Slant Six, how much do you figure the 3-spd would help over the I-6's stuck with a 'glide?

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

DANG IT!
Thanks Fred, I thought I had a flash of insight.


And That your honour is why Billy is doing it and I'm running in circles.....LOL


Excellent thread!

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Back when Billy and I talked about that combo, we determined the carb was too small.
The cylinder heads looked killer though. I was going to classify those tubes as emission devices ,which are removable and then see if anyone missed them. I doubt it.
There are later model 232 V6s that look pretty good on paper.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Lately ,I ' ve been looking at the 77 Pontiac 400/180 in the big cars. It's down to 260 hp, where the same motor in the Firebird is 285.
I've got a Bonneville 2 dr here that will make N/SA with no rollbar, if anyone's interested.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Thanks to you guys with the wealth of info, that you have, this is one cool thread ! Thanks for the great reading !

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Mark -

Hush on all those Pontiacs.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

OK Mark you and talked a little about this one, 92 SC T-Bird. These things are usually sitting in somebody's yard with a blown head gasket. C4 will bolt up to the engine, 8.8 rear axle, headers..would be expensive and the car is a bit on the heavy side, I believe it would fit into R.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Gentlemen, I'm guessing the '69 Dart with 318-2V 230/230 wouldn't be nearly as good a combo as the 318-2/185??? '69 Looks like an N-O-P combo. Your thoughts ??????

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Todd - The 318 2-bbl is rated at 185 in Stock, 230 in SS in 1969. Look at the bottom of the engine column that has one asterisk (*) to see the power rating factor.
When NHRA defactored this engine back in '05, they hit every engine in every year from 1967 thru 1982. Because there are so many years this engine combination was produced, it would behoove somebody interested in racing it to research all the specs for every year and the bodies you can use. Slight advantages may be found in all those intake manifolds and carburetors. I will tell you that the cylinder head selection is basically the same for all years and that I could not find any camshaft advantages.
If you already have a '69 Dart, it probably has as much potential as any other combination. You didn't say which body style you have, but a GT hardtop has a weight break of 16.01 and will make it an O-P-Q car, which would be able to get away from the more populated 15 and 16 lb classes. I also think the engine will be more capable of producing competitive torque than hp, which would favor the heavier combo.

A note about the Chevy 305
 

Although I targeted the Camaro and Firebird combinations for the late 70s Chevy 305, one of the reasons I have been "pushing" this engine for such a long time is that it is available in so many bodies during those production years. Look at full size Chevrolets, Pontiacs, Buicks, and Oldsmobiles for applications. There are even '76-'77 Chevelles and Novas that make U/SA, if that is interesting to you. Cutlasses, LeMans and a variety on mid-sized Buicks used that engine at various times. Lots of possibilities!

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Billy or one of you guys will know this.

Is the 230 Chevy inline in the early (60-64) Chevy II a viable combo? If I remember correctly you could get this with a 4 sp as well as auto and 3sp.

JimR

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Ok, I see this 1982 mustang combo and am interested to make it a dime rocket. I have car in mind just a short drive away.. I was told before purchasing check all areas on the uni-body where Anything bolts onto it...This car is 2700lbs..... very light in my opinion.

The car classification guide doesn't specifiy auto/manual or I don't see it anywhere...oh...the engine blueprint section...got it!

Will NHRA bother you if you use a five speed manual only making four shift down the track? I'd like to daily drive this car, I beleive that is a distiguised trait often overlooked but, appreciated by the distinguised...

I'll post pics and video of the entire step by step if I do indeed spend less than $5000.

I really would enjoy this fiscally sound project and have others buy into it aswell.. My chevelle is not going to be done sooner and for less money, that's a fact!

Thanks for the thread!

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Pat, No superchargers allowed in this discussion LOL

I would look at the 90-92 232 V6 PFI combo @ 170 hp. It seems high for a 232 ,but compare the specs to a 99 Firebird 231 Buick motor that's competitive @ 205 in N/SA
T-bird will make V, which is 6 or 4 cyl. only.

The T-bird is IRS, isn't it? Still 8.8 internals?

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Thanks Dwight, I don't read the sheets enough ...... I see the factors now. I do have a '69 Dart which will ultimately have a 340 for E-F automatic, but I'm thinking a 318 may be a good way to get the car into class racing on the (relatively) cheap. I'm thinking the 318 won't make enough power to hurt itself anyway, so I may get away with a stock-ish short block ....

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Grassroots Motorsport Magazine has had a challenge for the past few years called the Grassroot challenge and depending on the year this challenge falls upon you can not spend more than the year, this year the participants cannot spend more than $2011 for their build. We should start the same Challenge called build a stocker for less than $5.999.99. I'm sure that we could get enough sponsors to make it a fun event. Claude

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Cool Thread Here !

Be kind of cool to see if someone could build a Stocker for under 5-6K.

I just bought a 4 cyl. 90 Mustang Coupe with the intent in turning it into a N/SA 5.0 stocker. I am going to claim it as an '89 tho.

I paid a bit too much for it @ $ 1,800, but it all there and clean, so I have 4K to go.....LOL
As posted earlier, 8.8 rears are cheap for these cars, as well as engine components.
I have everything already (used parts of course). Just need to freshen up the shortblock.

I looked at the '86 T-Bird 5.0 combo, but as posted earlier, the heads are restictive and it is factored too high @ 205. The 89 Mustang factored @ 215 is a better choice considering the heads and upper intake are better. Cam too I think, but not sure tho.


http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s...e90Coupe01.jpg

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Me & 2 buddies built a P/S 59 Chevy Biscayne 283/185 4 speed 45 years ago in 1966 for $600 including the $45 car which amounts to $4484.52 today. That took home made headers & max scrounging back then. It sounds like a tough challenge to me. Id love to see someone do it

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Jason, DO IT!!!
(I'll have to live vicariously through you hehehe)

Almack, tried and true yes a 89 notch is a good choice. I could swap noses on my 83 and go fuelie but I like carbs...yeah that's a dumb excuse but it's all I got.

Speaking of which, the earlier foxes are lighter than the later, would it bounce in tech if the 89 nose and tailights are on it but the interior and vin are 83? Just thinking, lighter body so I could swap weight around better than a true 89.

I just picked up a 460 last weekend but it's a 79...not in the guide. I was told it was out of a 78, and was thinking S/GTB for IHRA. Getting so damn many engines in the garage I'm going to have to do SOMETHING! LOL

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

You have to watch the early 230s as I think(I'm not looking at the guide) some have really small cams. The other big difference is the carb. 68 and up (my stuff) uses a monojet and the older stuff uses a 1g. The sizes are about the same but I have no experience with the 1g. All of the later Novas are 3 speed only but 68 and 69 Camaros could be had with 4 speeds.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

It's 200 hp.
I think you are succumbing to street or internet forum thrash talk about the 86 motor.
Look at it this way: The later 215 has to carry 240 more pounds in it in P/SA .Do you think the later improvements will carry that much extra weight with same short block, cam and throttle body?
I don't.

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

I don't think I have a choice now...If its bound to be then its up to me....

I pick up the car in two weeks from the Friday, already called him, the pistons "cp" and now pondering clutch set up for an effecient set up per the 320 HP I plan to make @ 6100 rpm.....That will do the trick..

All other avenues are covered cause I'm a cnc machinist programmer with all the machines available....
I'm not a Ford guy at all but, the thread is too inspiring... Billy knows what he is talking about too..

Re: Some "Dime Rockets" for the 4TH!
 

Your 83 would be legal as long as the interior and exterior looked like an '89. They don't check vins.

Last year, I bought a rolling chassis '91 Mustang Coupe with a 10 pt cage, spooled rear, and drag suspension and picked up parts to build a 1974 460 (the best 460 year choice) with a Thermoquad.
Got the correct intake and fitted the 460 to fit under the stock hood using the stock k-member.
Since I want to go combo racing in the 1/4, the closest 1/4 mile track won't allow IHRA Stock GT cars to run.
So, the project has been put on hold.
Thus the idea for the N/SA 89 coupe.
My 95 H/PS I will run combo races at the 1/8th mile track near here.