Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

No, you don't get it at all. You never will. It's not Stock Eliminator any more. They just call it Stock Eliminator.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

OK guys, play nice. What you need to do is work TOGETHER to fix the problem so that both have the "opportunity" to be competitive - not a guarantee if you can't cut it, but an opportunity. Unless you stand together it will just go on as it is, or get worse.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

No one is saying that there shouldn't be change. Change is inevitable.

What some of us are saying is "make the changes FAIR!" If we've let a group of vehicles compete with an unfair advantage, as some of us believe, then the situation needs to be corrected. Lowering the index's doesn't do it, it only moves the mis-factored car's higher on the list. Fix the problem created with the unrealistic horsepower factors first!

Lew

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Dale:
Farmer was tough and sometimes controversial - but he kept it together.
He was "the Man" !!!
I DO have some "Farmer" stories

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

"What some of us are saying is "make the changes FAIR!" If we've let a group of vehicles compete with an unfair advantage, as some of us believe, then the situation needs to be corrected. Lowering the index's doesn't do it, it only moves the mis-factored car's higher on the list. Fix the problem created with the unrealistic horsepower factors first!

Lew"

Read the details, Lew. I didn't say just lower the indexs (but they do need drastic lowering); you have to get the cars factored correctly, first - which is what I believe you are saying.

Personally, it would be fine with me if:
1) the cars were fairly factored so old and new had the opportunity to be competitive; and
2) the indexs were fairly determined FROM CLASS TO CLASS;
and then the indexs themselves were made almost unattainable, or maybe not an e.t. but a class delta, OR there was no breakout- whichever !!!!
Of course, the two items I mentioned would need to be constantly and fairly reviewed and modified for that to work - but the fun would begin. You don't have to agree with that, I don't expect many to, but that's just what I would like to see to SAVE the category.
How long would the fans hang around, or would there be TV coverage, if in the Olympics hurdles competition, someone would complain that they paid their entry fee and were unable to compete because those other guys were too fast and that "wasn't fair", because they were younger, had longer legs, etc.
Let's see......... maybe we would come up with a time that if they ran faster they would be disqualified and then EVERYONE would have a chance to become an OLYMPIC track star !!! How exciting !!!! I HATE BREAKOUT RACING - make it fair and then, Let's RACE !!!
S/G and S/C is always available. :-(
I don't want to get into a p***ing match here with anyone so, I have said what I think, now I hope all of you who are currently running S and S/S can get together, decide what you collectively want (fat chance, I know), and pressure NHRA to maker it fair and exciting and something that the FANS will like to watch again (Chevy against Ford against Chrysler, etc. - brand loyalty).
I'm done here - I just get upset !!!

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Just one more thought. I DO like the new cars racing. I think it might bring back the fan base some and maybe that's what NHRA is looking at.
I'm just suggesting what I suggest so that those of you who have all your excess cash invested in an older car can still compete and have fun. I'm afraid if you guys don't amicably work it out, NHRA will continue to discourage the older cars until they give up - don't give them the opportunity. You might have to give up something, fight an uphill battle, actually work on your car to make it FASTER, but it will be a great TRIP !!

Also, I would like it if they took away all those electronic driving aids and put the driving back totally in the drivers hands, not buttons or switches. Line-locs and nothing else - maybe even take them away. We did without them for many years !!!
I remember back in '82 or '83 I as trying to get my '69 425hp 427 Camaro into the 9s in SS/EA. I was runnning very close (10.02, 10.03) which was very respectable back then. At Atlanta (Commerce GA) Dragway, at a meet the week before the Gators, I had made a couple of 10.03 runs when my Moroso cable drive tach broke. I had to run the first round without a tach and was forced to "feel it" in the seat of my pants. Result - first 9 second run (9.98) !!!
NOW, I'm done, maybe

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Actually, I am saying there shouldn't be change. The class itself should not be fundamentally changed. Stock Eliminator was never intended to have purpose built race cars as part of the class. It's really simple. You can't mix production street driven combinations with purpose built race cars. There was a time when NHRA knew this. Purpose built factory race cars were put in Super Stock or Factory Experimental classes, where they belonged.

Face the facts here. You cannot properly factor purpose built race cars to make them work in Stock Eliminator.

First off, the last thing we need is 6.0 pound per HP cars on 9" tires running 8 second elapsed times in Stock Eliminator. Even at 7.0 pounds per HP, if they were to do that, you'll soon have 3700 pound cars on 9" slicks running 8.90 ET's. Why? Because the index for the 7.0 class is going to get set really low, because they want to go really fast, and NHRA apparently has no qualms at all about giving them what they want.

Further, what they'll really want, and they've already asked for, is 6.0-6.5 pound classes. That's Super Stock A and B territory. Think about that for a minute. It took a full ten years, and a new class a half pound per HP lighter, for Stock Eliminator to go from Bobby DeArmond's legendary 9.99 in A/SA to a few cars in AA/SA running in the 9.50 zone. And two tenths of that five tenth ET drop came from taking 200 pounds out of the cars. Now we have A/SA cars running 9.50, and they're sandbagging.

Second, so long as the factory can "make" any car or engine they want with a pen and a piece of paper, you can't keep them factored. The AHFS barely works as it is, often only working at Indy for class. Read the rule: OEM may apply for inclusion of ANY SPECIAL PRODUCTION RUNS into the Official NHRA Stock Car Classification Guide. Special runs must include a minimum of 50 units of an already accepted body style, need not be showroom available. Applications evaluated on an individual basis. Acceptance will not imply precedence. Every year, they can simply make minor changes, and get a new factor.

Factory race cars need their own class, just like they had for years. Stock Eliminator is not that class. Sure, new cars should be in Stock Eliminator. New production showroom available cars. Stock Eliminator needs to return to the original concept.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

IMHO, that is the worst thing that NHRA ever did to Stock Eliminator!

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Agreed. It fundamentally changed the entire character and premise of the class. That is exactly what I mean when I say Stock Eliminator is not Stock Eliminator any more. That rule completely changed the class. Stock Eliminator, as we knew it, ceased to exist the day that rule was written.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Alan, doesn't your wife have anything better for you to do? I've seen this exact post a dozen times within the past two weeks! We get it! You hate these new cars and want Stock Eliminator to be "69 Camaro Eliminator" for the rest of our lives. Copying in that paragraph from the rulebook over and over and over again on here isn't going to get the HP factors fixed, or the cars put in their own class, or even banished from Stock Eliminator like you seem to want so badly. Give it a rest already!

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

I've never posted that before, ever. Not even once. Never mind a dozen times in two weeks.

I don't hate the new cars at all.

I don't care anything about it being "69 Camaro Eliminator". I don't particularly like 69 Camaros, the guy I race with does.

Try getting your facts straight, as opposed to resorting to hyperbole and exaggeration.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

"There was a time when NHRA knew this. Purpose built factory race cars were put in Super Stock or Factory Experimental classes, where they belonged."

You made some good points (high hp cars on small slicks - dangerous !!!) but drew some poor conclusions.
The above statement wasn't exactly true. When it all started in the early 60s there was only Stock Elim. Super Stock was a class in it. In '62 the top class in Stock Elim was Super Super Stock (413 Chryslers, 409 Chevys, 406 Fords, 421 Pontiacs) They were limited to 7" slicks; and drew the crowds. When they ran Top Stock Elim. at the '62 Nationals it was the top Stock cars, including SS/S cars. When they ran the Elim. there were even some A/S cars in it..

The point that JHeath makes is very valid. If you don't come up with a way to co-exist in Stock Elim. and "give it up", you will lose your Eliminator.
Figure it out. Take your concerns and figure them out; but don't exclude the future or you will lose - guaranteed !!!
Form a Stock /Super Stock association and work out the details to everybody's (well almost everybody's) satisfaction with some give and take, and get it ALL hashed out and written up and signed by everyone and then present the package to NHRA, in a way that will benefit them, as well.
for a small example - give the new 7 lb. classes 10 " slicks for their class only.
Why in the world would you care - as long as the handicap is correct from your class to theirs ???

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Give me a break,do you guys actual think a 1969 camaro nhra stocker resembles any thing that ever came off a Chevy dealer showroom floor(after market blocks,after market pistons,high dollar acid prepared heads and intakes,metric trans,after market light front brakes,after market ignitions and the list goes on.Stock my ***!

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Sorry, you were right, I checked my facts. You've only posted six times in this thread that the new cars can't be registered at the DMV or don't have VINs or are factory built race cars or go against the premise of Stock Eliminator or are making old cars obsolete or whatever your argument is. I'm sure everybody understood you the first time.

If you don't hate these new cars, why are you wasting so much time writing up essays on how they don't deserve to be in Stock?

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

First, we're talking about Stock Eliminator as it has been for about 40 years, with Super Stock (oddly enough where the Hemi powered factory race cars went as soon as they were released) as an entirely separate class. The Stock Eliminator that 90% of the people discussing this have been in for years.

Which of the 409 cars were factory race cars, limited production? The closest would be the 63 Z-11. The 406 Fords were limited production? The Mopars? Those were production cars sold in volume to the general public. But we're not talking about stripped down muscle cars sold to the general public you could drive home from the dealer anymore.


Who said anything about not allowing new cars? New cars are fine. Try to convince Ford of that, by the way. Find a new Ford production Mustang in the guide after 2008. Good luck with that. I hope they bring in every new combination Ford GM and Chrysler sell for street use to the general public, and put every single one of them in the guide, they belong there.

The new factory race cars are great, I like them. Some of my good friends own them. They belong on the drag strip. But they belong in their own class. Honestly, they need an F/X class, with 10.5 slicks, their own factors, their own weight breaks, with their own indexes, and their own safety regulations, so they can really show their true performance. They really need to be on 10.5" slicks, with weight breaks starting at 6.0 or 7.0 up to about 9.0, with full 12 point cages, and indexes starting out at around 9.70 or 9.90, low enough that they can go out and race, instead of sandbagging to protect their factors.

Showcase the new cars, let them really run, let them really fight it out. If you had a few F/X classes, with 1 pound weight breaks, you'd have 32 cars or so going fast, with plenty of hard core heads up races, low ET's, big MPH, and a great show.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Once again, Alan is the man.

Chris Barnes
Wagons of Steel
Stock 6621

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Dont forget the lower classes these things have invaded like J, K, L. Lets not stop at 9 pounds per HP unless NHRA gets the HP factors right.....Yeah.....FAT CHANCE of that happening.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

At the rate they are going now it would not surprise me one bit if nhra went to crate motor, is that not what some of the new ford combos are anyway.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Once again, you're making progress, Alan. Slow, but some progress. I know about the 409s and Z-11s I had both when they were new. See the segment here about the '62 Nationals on this same site (the Z-11 is pictured there). Ran the 409 in SS/S at the 62 Nats. Received the Z-11 the next Winter and raced in '63.
To your point, when could you actually buy a '69 427/425 Camaro from the factory? Few had them from the factory, and I tried to buy one from my dealer - no dice !!! I settled for a 375hp 396 SS Camaro. Later people like Baldwin and Yenko made them. Back in those days NHRA forced the OEM Manuf. to make at least 50 before they would consider them into S and S/S. Geez, where have I heard that lately ????? My SS/EA started out as a 69 6 cyl Camaro.

We have met the enemy and they are US.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

I must be reading this incorrectly - please tell me that I am !!!
According to the qualifying sheet for Stock qualifying at this weeks Nationals, the top 126 qualifiers were all over.6 under their index; and the top 19 at least 1 second under?? ABSURD !!!

Order for Qualifying Round 3
CLERMONT, Ind. - SUMMIT FastNews - Order after 3 rounds of qualifying in Stock Eliminator at the NHRA Full Throttle Drag Racing Series, 57th annual Mac Tools U.S. Nationals presented by Lucas Oil: Psn Driver Class Index ET Ov/Un 1. David Barton A/SA 11.00 9.676 -1.324 2. Don Fezell AA/S 10.60 9.384 -1.216 3. William Skillman AA/SA 10.60 9.415 -1.185 4. Keith Lynch A/SA 11.00 9.834 -1.166 5. Bo Butner AA/SA 10.60 9.449 -1.151 6. Terry Emmons AA/SA 10.60 9.477 -1.123 7. David Buckner A/SA 11.00 9.896 -1.104 8. Charlie Fitzsimmons A/SA 11.00 9.903 -1.097 9. Irvin Johns B/SA 11.25 10.169 -1.081 10. Kevin Helms A/S 10.95 9.874 -1.076 11. Gary Summers L/SA 12.70 11.625 -1.075 12. Derek Atwill B/SA 11.25 10.178 -1.072 13. Randy Warford A/SA 11.00 9.936 -1.064 14. Bill Skillman AA/SA 10.60 9.564 -1.036 15. Mike Morgan K/SA 12.65 11.618 -1.032 16. Bo Kenney AA/SA 10.60 9.577 -1.023 17. Douglas Duell A/SA 11.00 9.987 -1.013 18. Mike Pustelny A/SA 11.00 9.988 -1.012 19. Evan Smith AA/SA 10.60 9.610 -0.990 20. Paula Cotten G/SA 12.00 11.015 -0.985 21. Charles Blossom CF/S 15.15 14.165 -0.985 22. Wade Owens M/SA 12.85 11.866 -0.984 23. Andy Durham AA/SA 10.60 9.619 -0.981 24. Leonard Mattingly B/SA 11.25 10.293 -0.957 25. Kyle Ratcliff C/SA 11.40 10.447 -0.953 26. Jimmy Holzman AA/SA 10.60 9.650 -0.950 27. Chuck Beach G/SA 12.00 11.061 -0.939 28. Robbie Hudlow B/SA 11.25 10.311 -0.939 29. Ken Miele A/SA 11.00 10.067 -0.933 30. Eugene Monahan J/SA 12.45 11.520 -0.930 31. Barry Parker H/SA 12.15 11.222 -0.928 32. Joey Wilkes E/SA 11.70 10.772 -0.928 33. Randy Wilkes B/SA 11.25 10.322 -0.928 34. Gary Richard C/SA 11.40 10.473 -0.927 35. Tim Bishop B/S 11.20 10.274 -0.926 36. Caleb McFarland A/S 10.95 10.025 -0.925 37. David Thomas AA/SA 10.60 9.676 -0.924 38. Francois Periard B/SA 11.25 10.333 -0.917 39. David Walther G/S 11.90 10.991 -0.909 40. Charley Downing K/S 12.55 11.642 -0.908 41. Tim Weinzapfel R/S 13.95 13.045 -0.905 42. Al Corda B/SA 11.25 10.348 -0.902 43. Jeff Teuton F/SA 11.85 10.950 -0.900 44. Jerry Bennett E/SA 11.70 10.805 -0.895 45. Duane Dickens K/SA 12.65 11.762 -0.888 46. Verne Buchanan H/SA 12.15 11.265 -0.885 47. Paul Boster D/SA 11.55 10.665 -0.885 48. Donnie Beeler G/S 11.90 11.019 -0.881 49. Tim Lowe K/SA 12.65 11.774 -0.876 50. Wayne Totaro B/SA 11.25 10.378 -0.872 51. Jeff Taylor C/SA 11.40 10.528 -0.872 52. Bob Gere L/SA 12.70 11.832 -0.868 53. Bryan Phillips E/SA 11.70 10.834 -0.866 54. Jim Boudreau B/SA 11.25 10.387 -0.863 55. Sam Pourciau C/SA 11.40 10.543 -0.857 56. Chris Mattingly C/SA 11.40 10.546 -0.854 57. Daniel Cyr B/SA 11.25 10.405 -0.845 58. Larry Hill B/SA 11.25 10.408 -0.842 59. Amanda Matusek AA/SA 10.60 9.758 -0.842 60. Dennis Breeden A/SA 11.00 10.159 -0.841 61. Britt Cummings B/SA 11.25 10.409 -0.841 62. Steve Couch G/SA 12.00 11.160 -0.840 63. Bert Morgan R/SA 14.05 13.212 -0.838 64. John McLeod A/SA 11.00 10.165 -0.835 65. Brett Candies AA/SA 10.60 9.771 -0.829 66. Bill Sempsrott K/S 12.55 11.723 -0.827 67. Brett McFarland B/S 11.20 10.373 -0.827 68. Bill Dyer M/S 12.85 12.026 -0.824 69. Jerry MacNeish D/S 11.50 10.677 -0.823 70. Joe Schaechter E/S 11.65 10.828 -0.822 71. Anthony Fetch B/SA 11.25 10.429 -0.821 72. Dave Edwards C/SA 11.40 10.580 -0.820 73. Gary Emmons C/SA 11.40 10.581 -0.819 74. John Keihn K/SA 12.65 11.833 -0.817 75. Mike Welfel G/SA 12.00 11.187 -0.813 76. Chris Ashley I/SA 12.30 11.487 -0.813 77. Brooks Lee A/SA 11.00 10.191 -0.809 78. Amy Faulk C/SA 11.40 10.592 -0.808 79. Slate Cummings C/SA 11.40 10.593 -0.807 80. Chad Mahlosky H/S 12.00 11.193 -0.807 81. Tom Rambo G/SA 12.00 11.196 -0.804 82. Bobby Warren C/SA 11.40 10.605 -0.795 83. Mikael Lind D/SA 11.55 10.759 -0.791 84. Tim Gillespie F/SA 11.85 11.061 -0.789 85. Randi Lyn Shipp D/SA 11.55 10.762 -0.788 86. Lyn Smith F/SA 11.85 11.063 -0.787 87. Carlton Sweasy H/SA 12.15 11.364 -0.786 88. Jason Lynch M/S 12.85 12.068 -0.782 89. Mike McGinley N/SA 13.00 12.219 -0.781 90. Jimmy Ronzello D/SA 11.55 10.771 -0.779 91. Jason Buckner H/SA 12.15 11.376 -0.774 92. Dan Fletcher F/SA 11.85 11.078 -0.772 93. Mike Ficacci C/SA 11.40 10.630 -0.770 94. Kevin Stubbs B/SA 11.25 10.480 -0.770 95. Chuck Veach H/SA 12.15 11.380 -0.770 96. Ben Wenzel Sr. C/S 11.35 10.581 -0.769 97. Don Garlits A/SA 11.00 10.232 -0.768 98. Larry Smith A/SA 11.00 10.237 -0.763 99. Bob Akers G/SA 12.00 11.242 -0.758 100. Jerry Emmons B/SA 11.25 10.492 -0.758 101. Dic Geary I/SA 12.30 11.545 -0.755 102. Chuck Belanger G/SA 12.00 11.248 -0.752 103. Patrick Downing N/SA 13.00 12.250 -0.750 104. Ron Seibenick EF/S 17.45 16.705 -0.745 105. Edmond Richardson C/SA 11.40 10.664 -0.736 106. Dave Casey A/S 10.95 10.214 -0.736 107. Todd Hoven D/S 11.50 10.765 -0.735 108. Brad Zaskowski C/S 11.35 10.620 -0.730 109. Bill McClister E/SA 11.70 10.981 -0.719 110. Tom Russell E/S 11.65 10.937 -0.713 111. Jerry Hefler M/SA 12.85 12.139 -0.711 112. Doug Auxier D/S 11.50 10.791 -0.709 113. Jerry Stamps E/SA 11.70 10.992 -0.708 114. Nick Folk C/SA 11.40 10.703 -0.697 115. Drew Whalen J/SA 12.45 11.757 -0.693 116. Jack Zimmerman B/SA 11.25 10.558 -0.692 117. Michael Iacono A/SA 11.00 10.310 -0.690 118. Johnny Diekema C/SA 11.40 10.711 -0.689 119. Ken Vaughn C/S 11.35 10.679 -0.671 120. Jason McCormack A/S 10.95 10.282 -0.668 121. Mitch Truman E/SA 11.70 11.050 -0.650 122. Tommy Turner O/S 13.10 12.456 -0.644 123. Jennifer McCormack K/SA 12.65 12.007 -0.643 124. Tim Tosto C/S 11.35 10.715 -0.635 125. Rosalyn Gresens O/S 13.10 12.469 -0.631 126. David Forbes D/SA 11.55 10.927 -0.623 127. Dick Kincaid B/SA 11.25 10.633 -0.617 128. Rick Rodgers AA/SA 10.60 9.983 -0.617

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Records show they made around 1K or so COPO Camaros with the L-72 427-425 engine in 1969, I've read there were as many as 1200 or so. The engine itself had been installed on Corvettes and big cars since 1966 (the 427/425 became the 427/435 when they changed it to a 3-2 intake in the Corvette in 1967). I'm sure there were a lot of dealers that did not get a 427/425 Camaro in 1969, especially considering several dealers got a lot more than one. They came with a VIN, an exhaust system, street tires, and passed federal and 49 state safety and emissions standards.

What does making a 427/425 race car out of a 6 cylinder car have to do with anything? I'm sure the Camaro we run in Stock Eliminator did not start as a 427/425 car, you'd have to ask Steve Calabro and Joe Fasano but I think it was a 350 car. I think Steve Koppien's blue car did actually start out as a 427/425. The SS/EA we're racing now did actually start out as a 396/375 SS car, albeit with a 4 speed. People don't normally build race cars out of $100K collector's cars. That doesn't really have anything to do with the subject at hand.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Actually Alan, there are quite a few of us that apparently are not normal. ;)

Me, Ray Paquet, Ben Wenzel, Fred Henson, Richie Pauley, Doug Baker, Rusty Gillis, Steve Koppein, Steve and Horace Johnson, Jimmy Bridges are just a few off the top of my head.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Yep

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Well Alan. I'm not sure where you were in '69 but I'd like to see those records. I had a 427/425 in a Corvette (1966) so I know they were available in Corvettes ( 425 hp and 435 hp); and I went to one of the real performance dealers (and more than 1 to find one). Most of the one's I found were either Baldwin Motion built or Yenko - maybe those numbers you quote consider those..... and I believe the factory ones were ZL1s

What's the point anyway? We're just quibbling to get away from the real issue.
My main and ONLY contention is that NHRA likes the new cars and they will be included in Stock. I doubt if they will make a new separate class or Elim. for them. Maybe they will - who knows !!
Even though it may seem that I am against YOU, I am trying to say that I WANT you guys to be able to fairly compete but I think if you make it a "either them or us" proposition in Stock, you will eventually lose your Eliminator.
Don't fight it, just fight to make it fair (hp factors and indices). It's not productive to fight the inevitable. Accept that they may be included in Stock Elim. and campaign to get the numbers right.
That's my suggestion and I don't have an ax to grind in this battle. Being a long time competitor in both Stock and Super Stock, I would just like to make they are strong and lasting.
That's it for me - peace !!!

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

I see Ben Wenzel is still in the hunt at Indy. Good going Ben. I remember when he won with an early Z-28 (I think). Is it the same car/combination? I ran a Z-28 in F/S back in the early 70s under the Truppi-Kling banner. It held the speed record while Tony Pizzi had the et record. John Burkholder had the hot Z-28 in G/S ('69 Z) back then and founded B&B perf.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Here's the rest of it..... And one of the best things they ever did for their pocketbook.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Correct: If you believe that, you're not normal.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

It's the same '67 Z-28 he won Indy with back in 1967.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

I just got back home yesterday and Indy was as awesome as usual. As usual, most of the same people are complaining about the same old horsepower factors and the new cars. Many of the same people complaining couldn't run with the old cars that are out there, let alone the new Mustangs and Drag Pak cars. Guys if you want to race at Indy, you have to show up there. That means either buying a car, or building one, and racing it. I have never seen it as easy as it was to make the program this year. Some guys must beleive the hype on this forum because many stayed home. Some of the faster classes are in the Milionaires club but there are many classes of stock that an average guy, or pair of guys could afford, if you are willing to put a car together but you have to do it. Stop complaining , now is the time to start on something for next year and remember if you don't show up at Indy you can't win at Indy.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Go to this thread: http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...enko+chevrolet

There is more than enough info including a picture of Yenko Chevrolets back lot with a whole pile of the 427 COPO cars all of which were factory built. The picture is funny in that they have those cars just lying around like an ordinary car lol.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Yeah, the 425 cars were actually pretty easy get. The dealer I worked at had 2 ZL-1's sitting on the lot and were available to anyone with $7,500.00

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

LOL the 100k stocker of it's day. But at least you could actually get off the showroom floor.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

LOL So true Jerry, I am pretty sure he has been carrying on with this endless drivel for a year or longer. I think he was even quoted in an article on Competition Plus about a year ago covering the topic.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Endless drivel? Really? Unlike you, I actually work on two cars for a customer who has to compete directly with the new cars. Competition Plus called me and did an interview.

The very best you have is childish name calling, you have nothing at all to add to the discussion. Mostly because you have nothing even remotely factual to back up anything you say. How helpful and mature you are.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Alex,

I think his point is that none of those mentioned went to Barret/Jackson last year and spent 100k on a fully restored COPO or Hemi and tore it doen to make a race car. Today a racer would buy a 6cyl car and turn it into a 427 or Hemi car to race. When all those guys bought their cars they weren't 100k cars. In 1977 I bought my Max Wedge ready to race for $2,100.00.....don't thing you can do that now.

JimR

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

Jim,
Alex knows what I meant. Alex and I trade barbs constantly, we were standing in the staging lanes poking fun at each other a couple of times last weekend at Bowling Green. Just like Jeff Tueton and I were. Jeff and I were standing behind the starting line and I told him his Super Stock car that Kevin Helms was driving sounded like a school bus with a vacuum leak. It's all in fun.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

In the Stock Eliminator Final was a 2009 DP and a 2000 Chevy Z28 and it sure looks like the older cars can compete to me.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

David Huff got it right, there was an "old car" in the final.

In fact as best I can tell, only one Challenger won stock eliminator at a Divisional, (Dodge Challenger 5.7 at Noble OK last year) and now only one Challenger has won Stock Eliminator at a National (Dodge Challenger 360 in Indy )...

So this year, except for Indy, all of the Divional winners, and all of the other Nationals winners were either Fords, or older cars.

Challengers are NOT a huge problem, and most racers (defined as people who actually compete on the track and not just whine and moan on the keyboard when they actually have no skin in the game......) have really never actually been beaten by a Challenger Drag Pak.

And apparently NOBODY has yet figured out that Supercharged cars have a dramatic advantage over naturally aspirated cars. And the Fords are the only one who run Supercharged cars.

And has anyone noticed that Challengers now run only A/SA, AA/SA and a middle class like F/SA, but the Fords are all over the place, up and down the classes...

Were the new cars factored correctly? No. But lots of cars in the past weren't either. So what really is the point?

Time to give the Challengers a break, and start bashing on FORD for a change.

David
TheNew Hemi Guy

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

David, so you don't like racing against the Mustangs and their superchargers. Most of us think there's not much difference racing against the Challengers or the Mustangs. You either get out run by 5 tenths or 7 tenths. Why don't you do something constructive that would benefit everyone and lobby for FX classes for the new cars. AA through D with AA reserved for blown cars.

Re: Back from Indy-what's happened to Stock Eliminator??
 

I have read all of the replies to this post from the beginning and know that I will be blasted for my opinion and comments but here goes. First my name is Mike and I have been involved in NHRA, AHRA, IHRA racing since 1960. I have built, crewed on and raced a car in almost every older class of drag racing except fuel funny car, which I wish I had done. So I think I have earned the right to express my opinion.

I have been working, looking at the rules and talking with current stock and superstock racers to re-create a 68 camaro for stock or superstock. If I followed the rules for stock and superstock in 1969 for this car I would have about as much chance of being competitive as trying to apply and get a license to drive a top fuel funny car today. The 1968 and 1969 cars in stock and superstock today are nothing like they were in those days. The use of all of the aftermarket heads, camshafts, transmissions is nothing like what you could have run in those days. If I put a cut gear muncie four speed in a car, built today, I would be only for fun. This story has come full circle with all of the yelling and complaining about Chrysler and Ford cars not being right. I remember the Hemi and he Thunderbolt. When I started building my current Duster, use to race only chevy back in the day, I started learning a lot about why you could not out run those cars. The factory, even in those days, had so many people running as "team cars" and research car and if you designed something that worked on your car and you were winning the next race every "team car" had the same thing. The first Ford thunderbolt was built on the third floor of a building in Detroit that only select people had access to. Chrysler and Ford only had one thing on their mind and that was they did not care who won as long as the car in the winners circle was theirs.

There are so many compaints about how "bracket racing" has "Killed" class racing. Class racing today is "bracket racing." A man goes out and runs his car wide open to the quarter mile mark and everyone just goes crazy "The man is just killing the class'. Do you not think that the spectators can hear a man lift off of his car at the 1000 foot mark and go the last 320 feet either standing on the brakes or being on and off of the accelerator. During the running of Stock and Superstock the announcer, for NHRA, on NHRA Autocast made a comment about the cars "racing to the 1,000 foot mark." The end of the race track, according to the rules is still 1,320 feet.

Mr. Herb McCandless was the guest commentator for the"Hemi Shoot Out" and was broad cast on NHRA Autocast. Let me tell you I was working in the shop building a new motor and enjoyed the commentary during that event better than almost anything I saw or heard broad cast during the week-end. Herb you did a super job and sounded like you had a lot of fun. Herb commented that many of the cars received in those days came to them in boxes. Now does anyone on here who knows Herb McCandless really think that he was on the brakes or on and off of the throttle when he ran 9.981 to Arlen Vanke's 9.983 to win the 1970 US Nationals at Indy. "Mr. 4-Speed" did what his sponsors expected him to do and that was to give the spectators a show and win the race. It's too bad that NHRA could not have video the Hemi Shoot-Out and recorded you guys doing the commentary, especially the conversation you guys had after the race, I believe third round, when you were comparing old Pro Stock Cars to modern day Pro Stock cars.