Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Bo and Foghorn Leghorn bring it on no ego problems here.Just a desire th whip both your asses with my COPO.The time has come.
As to the other post about Paying for Top Stock.Each class has a spnosor like Summit or Jegs and Top Stock had GM until GM got in financial trouble and pulled out.At that Time Bo stepped up and Sponsored the class.That is what the paying was all about.For the new factory class its just because the big 3 have all put cars out there that it makes sense for the sanctioning bodies to run them heads up since I am sure everybody likes to see which company can put out the faster car.It would have been better if no one could have in anyway modified their car and then run them heads up but that was not to be.Furthermore for the big blower cars they can only run heads up if they are not tubbed out.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Enjoy your new COPO and have Fun!

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Thanks if I ever get it.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I just sent another e-mail to Jamie!

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I hope you guys get them in time for Indy!

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Bruce , why do you hate the new cars so much ? Dont you think the guys who ran the 56 chevy with the 265 like the guys who ran the 69 corvette with the 427 in 1970 ? or how about the guys who ran the 55&56 chevy with the 265 , do you think they were happy when the 283 fi came out in 57 and smoked the 55& 56 with the 265 .

Lighten up and just enjoy your car and quit telling everyone one else there is soft , there is not a real car , NHRA did them a favor , they did not have to work on theirs . When I got my car it ran 10.60 from the factory and I have been working on it for a solid year . And really your vette is stock ? stock pistons , stock rods , stock cam ? stock tires ? you get the point it is not stock and it did not come that way from the factory.

For the record I bought my 08 CJ for 65k , I have put another 35k in it and it only runs a second under ( 9.30 ) and I work on it all the time just like you work on your car . When I put my new Patterson piece in it it will cost me another 30k and I will still have to work on it and worry about AHFS putting weight on it . So please just give the new car owners a break with the BS you keep throwing at us .

By the way I like your vette as Im a vette guy , 1984 c4 , 2002 z06 with a Lingenfelter blower , 2008 zo6 stock from the factory owned them all from day one new

Paul , everybody knows CJ can out run the Mopars and the Copo that why nobody will sponsor the class (LMAO) Just ask Jeff CJ's ran him out of ADRL

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Thank you so much - finally someone is saying what I have been wanting to say

Get ready to be blasted - hell I get crap when I erase what I was going to say and replace it with ...........


BTW Jackie Alley and Andy ran the same at Fallon (9.82) and she ran 9.56 at Chicago where Bo ran 9.25 - no chance we are competitive

One more thing - we have worked our V10 a lot and continue to but not so we can run the blower cars


LOL

Ron

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Bo,
I'm not the only person on the planet who has problems with the new cars in Stock. I may be the most vocal but please understand that I don't come out here without support from a lot of racers.

You guys keep bringing up long-ago sanctioning transgressions like it somehow makes it OK for you to do the same now. It doesn't. The racers "back in the day" didn't have the Internet. Soooo, some of us will continue to come out and remind the racing community that nhra and the OEM's are cheating hard working every day folks. That's all. It's no big deal!

Keep your checkbook handy. I understand some of the new car owners are spending Comp type money on their engines, like 100+k. And they are coming apart.

On the flip side of this money coin, how many of these cars can they sell before saturation settles in? They may have already hit the high water mark as wealthy buyers and people willing to hock their financial futures dwindle.

In the end, it's the hypocrisy by nhra, the OEM's and the people who think this behavior is perfectly legitimate that has created this problem. Sorry if you think I'm being a little heavy on you guys.

For the record I do not hate these cars or any living breathing creature for that matter.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Are there not other classes out there that are just as bogus as the new cars? Could've sworn there was care that went 2+ sec under at the CIC race in Belle Rose. Why are we not bashing any of the other soft index classes? Do they not deserve the same repercussions? Were these other cars not afforded the same advantages since NHRA provided them with an under-factored engine combo? Also, were the higher classes being created not a proper median resolution? Is that really not enough? What is enough? Would if fix any problems significant enough to create financial, economic, or class growth?

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Ed Wright can answer that. It would have been about halfway through his racing career. :D

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

They weren't in the same class as my '56.

Your not funny. Well, kinda. LOL

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Cutta, you're referring to Bob Shaw's U/SA Cadillac.

The difference between other cars that run WAY under, and the new cars (CJ/DP/COPO), is that, with the older cars could buy them, as is, from your local dealer. Insure them, inspect them, license them, and drive them home. None of which are true with the 2008 and newer cars.

THAT, is the main bone of contention. I said, years ago, if you could not buy a car, as is, from your local dealership, license it, register it, insure it, and legally drive it home, it doesn't belong in Stock. It should be S/S-only, like the Hemi's, '69 hi-po AMX, T-bolts (pre-2007), etc.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

if I have learned anything since I returned to racing it is that there will always be whiners unless they are top dog . A pro stock or pro mod guy can spend hundreds of thousands and it's ok stock or ss guy spends a 100 k or more and they are chastised you can' t win so for me I am just going to enjoy my car and build it to beat Bo and foghorn leghorns rods. The moaners can take their negative carping elsewhere I just wanna have fun and hope the other drivers do too . Coming soon to a track near you Cambria's COPO

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

^^^
Very true. No matter what class, no matter what sanctioning body there will always be someone crying foul if their car isn't top dog. That's just the way it is. Everyone hates a winner but everyone wants to be one.

No work required lol if that's true I have a lot of explaining to do to the wife about all the hours at work, shop, track and behind the computer with my spreadsheets and calculator

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Mike, putting them in a FX class would also go a long way towards equalizing the performance advantage that they have over the real stock cars.They could run in stock eliminator but would only run heads up against other A/FX,B/FX,C/FX, D/FX, E/FX cars. Is this not the way it was done in the 1960's?

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

You are the perfect guy for these new cars. But you can't control this site and you certainly will not get away with telling us to button up. That will bring more attention to this corrupt little scam.

You should start your own site - wearerichguyssoshoveitifyoudontlikeit.com.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

And what will the web site for the complainers be called

idlikesomecheesewiththat whine.com

The car I drive for a friend of mine isn't near as fast as the top runners. But instead of me bitching about it, I am impressed with the preformance they have achieved because I know how hard we have worked to get to where we are, so I can only imagine how hard they have to work. One thing I can say is that even as fast as Don is with his 08 stick car, I have given him some advise and helped him get his better, and he has done the same for me. Talked to Bo Kenny at Atlanta and he gave me some advise as well about fuel and timing.
Bruce, I know you do not like the new cars, we all know that, but give it a rest. All the bitching isn't going to make them go away, matter of fact, it looks like with the copo there are going to be even more out there
You have chosen to run your combo and others have chosen theirs. It's time to agree to disagree and move on.
Chuck

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I kinda like this idea of putting them in their own class and letting them run heads up format. They could call it Supercar Showdown or Factory Showdown or something along that lines? I thought there was a thread about that somewhere? Lol I'm just kidding around.

But in all seriousness I'd like to see that happen especially because it's heads-up. The problem I see with it is at divisional races the new cars aren't 16+ at every event to have a field specific for them at all events. There is also the issue of trying to even the competition between the NA/V10/SC/Big SC(or leave them in SS?). You could run it off index and record is index? I like that idea but the issue is limited people running the new cars(although car counts are coming up). How many of the old cars run in AAA/AA/BB/CC where a most of the new cars are ending up? That's a serious question on my part as I don't know without scoping out the classification guide hours on end.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Our site would be called: legitimatecomplaintsagainstarrogantoldmen.com

Move on? I'm sure that is what you would like to happen, since it appears you have gotten your way. But it isn't going to happen. Be prepared to hear about it for a long time.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

You misunderstood the idea I was trying to project. What I meant is the cars should be classified in the FX classes but run them in stock eliminator on thier own index. Didn't they do it that way in the 1960's?

I think we are getting off the thread's theme.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Bruce, how did I get my way? First off, I am a long way away from being anywhere close to the fast guys. Second, at the et we are at, there are a lot of the older cars that are faster than I am. So enlighten me. Like I said, the fast guy's have invested a lot of time and money. Or is that what really bothers you, maybe you have the time, but not the money, to be as fast as you want to be. Or were you once king, and now you're not? How many heads up have you been a part of lately with the new cars? Like has been said by many, they for the most part are in there own class. There may still be a few in the lower classes, but not many. This thread was supposed to be about them running in their own class.
Chuck

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Time and money are not the problem when comparing new cars and old cars, physics is the problem. No matter how much time or money I spend on my car, or anyone spends on their pre-2008 car, it will not be as fast as the new cars that are given equal treatment.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Chuck,
You got your way by running these cars in Stock. These cars arrived with a heavy gift factor. I know it is hard for you to understand the way many of us feel since you are coming into Stock with a new car. And as you said you had no interest in Stock before the CJ.

The new cars a short term cash cow for nhra and maybe a lot of fun for the folks who can afford them. What happens after you folks are finished playing? What is left?

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I stated that way earlier in this thread. The advancements are way more than the power under the hood. Thats why I also stated earlier, that if one person chooses one combo and someone else chooses a differant combo, don't bitch about their choice when everyone has a choice when they build what they like. The argument about it took 40 years of development for my camaro to be where it is took hard work and now with the new cars you don't need 40 years of blood sweat and tears holds no argument with me either. If I or anyone else were to start building a 1969 camaro today, would we use 1969 technoligy or 2012? Should I not be able to use what has been figured out by people a lot smarter than me? Or am I supposed to start from scratch and figure it out all on my own?
Chuck

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Bruce, I don't know that they arrived with a heavy gift factor. Are the engines efficient? yes. Do they have a lot of technology in them, yes. One thing I do know, It wasn't Ford that was trying to get over on people. The guy that owns the car that I drive has a lot of friends in higher ups at Ford and they refused to give out any info with the computers and management systems. It wasn't until people were able to modify the factory computer ( which was no easy feat) as well as others designing aftermarket systems that things took off. Ford was pretty upset at a lot of people that started running fast, because that was not their intent.
Like I said earlier, I grew up in the muscle car era and love the old muscle cars. People like fast cars, and there are a lot of older combo's that are fast. There is a lot of innovated people in stock and what they can do with some combo's is very impressive. But does that mean I would ever have the desire to drive a world record holding V6 impala? No, that doesn't interest me.
Chuck

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

So my car will not run with the new cars, no matter what, but they have factors equal or less than mine? 2012 302 CJ, 2010 5.9 DP, 2010 352 CJ, all equal or less than me. How does that make sense?

I have no problem with these cars in their own classes, which are basically what AAA, AA, and BB are, but there are still new cars that are insanely under factored in classes with old cars.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Chuck,
You are definitely out of the loop. Maybe you should check the archive here for more information. The Ford engineers made it very clear to me at the 2008 SEMA show that these cars made 800 horsepower and that they were protecting that information from nhra at that time. But nhra staff was soon told about it and yet they still went along with the scam. All this has been discussed before. You should learn more about this problem before jumping into the middle of this conversation with little or no knowledge about the subject.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

The facts are that these are not real cars. They don't have vin numbers and the motors are all made up bs from their high performance catalogs or somebody else's catalog. To go along with that they got horsepower ratings that were so soft that anyone with half a brain knew were bogus. So you guys thump your chest about how fast you are but let's see you take a 396-375 or an old cobra jet or a 440 6 pack car and run a second under, then you will have something to brag about.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

8 seconds in the quarter mile 8 seconds !!!!! How can anyone even get on here and say these are stock eliminator cars. I love seeing the new cars at the track. But it's just not right. Wish they had figured out something a little better than we have now. I agree with Mike Carr. Buy on Saturday and race on Sunday. Take a look at the 69 427/425 hp motor. Now look at the new copo. 427/425 If you guys don't have at least 100 hp over the 69 when your done. I would find a new engine shop. And to compare the advantage these cars have to the older days when a big advantage was a tenth. Is a joke. I quess if you tell yourselves that long enough at least you'll believe it. Ok nuff said HOW DO I GET ME ONE OF THOSE NEW CARS !!!! I wonder if my brother and myself could make one run. LOL

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Bruce don't know you but you are entitled to say whatever you want and the readers here will decide whether you are right wrong or something less complimentary . Me I can't wait to get the car and do everything I can to make it fast . I don't hide it not apologizing for it glad that I work hard enough to afford it so peace out brother

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

I'm glad you got a camaro because I know you will spend what ever it takes to make it as fast as possible, but the point is it will be fast regardless

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

[QUOTE=cambria;334972 I don't hide it not apologizing for it glad that I work hard enough to afford it so peace out brother[/QUOTE]

Amen brother .............

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Here is one for all of you people complaining about the new cars. There is a production car that could be just as competetive. The 2007 Shelby Mustang has a vin number, is rated at 500 horsepower (compared to the 2008 Cobra Jets 498) has the same engine as the 2008 Cobra Jet and was available to the general public. You would have to build it the same as a traditional stocker by putting in your own rolll cage, fuel system, 9 inch Ford rear and race transmission but the basic combination is there. It is not as easy to build a clone because I hear the Shelby American will only sell you the body pieces by providing a vin number, but it could be raced because its in the classification guide. For those who think the factory race cars are not like any production car, you are wrong.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

True. It is in the guide without a soft factor and is a manual only car which may be why no one is racing one.

Edited to add: They are not the same two motors. Close, but different heads, the 2008 has larger valves, larger throttle body, very slight difference in compression, larger blower (I think), different camshafts, 2.00 rocker ratio on the '08 vs. 1.81 on the '07.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

The GT500 is built in a Ford plant and the parts are available through regular Ford parts channels. Ford Racing sells the hoods also. The regular Shelby, the GT350 and the Supersnake are built at Shelby American's plant.
regards

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

That felt damn good!!! And note that I said, "given equal treatment." I was almost .2 quicker to 60 ft than the mustang on that run, he set the mph record 1 mph faster than I've ever been that weekend. That car will be multiple tenths quicker than me when it gets the converter it needs

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

Not to take anything away from Andrew's accomplishment but Jimmy was at that race to deliver this car to a new owner. Andrew did one hell of a job driving for that class win, which included long delays and funky weather.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

According to my emails and folks calling to offer support, my remarks about these new cars are well received and your's not so much.

You seem to be worried about the money already. I didn't chastise anyone for spending money on their cars and yet you accuse me of it. I'm glad you're a hard worker and make lots and lots of money. Do you need the number for Patterson or do you already have it?

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

OK look at your what you think is clever web address about rich guys that you created------ok now who started with the money.I really don't give a **** what you think and I think you need to understand that everybody is entitled to their own kind of fun.If you think readers are in accord with your views great.Me I beat to my own drummer and will continue to do so.It won't matter how many others like it or don't like it I won't judge them and they should not judge me.You live in your world and i will live in mine.I hope you run the fastest car and win every race.

Re: Factory Showdown at INDY
 

It's always good to keep things in the proper order. The web address for rich guys came after your comments about me chastising folks. Yes, by all means, go out and have all the fun you want with your toys. But, it's totally within our rights to point out that you are taking advantage of your fellow racers. You guys have a willing partner in nhra and that makes it OK in your mind. So have at it.