Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Over the years hear on class racer when someone needed help, the call was made out and many racer sent moneys or ever to do what they could. Lets look at this as a investment in class raceing. This is something that is going to take time, lots of energy, and coin to get going. I myself would like to invest in this effort. Take an example if you invest in this now you get discount entry prefered parking and one free bowling lesson from capt jack. Also by buying shares you whould vote on location? payouts? this is the way Wally started out. Some of this is random blabbering. More ideas later I got to get to work. Tom

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Michael,

First, all of us should commend you for stepping forward and throwing your "hat in the ring" to make another Class Nationals take place. We all know what Alex went through to make the first edition happen. This is going to be a thankless job and racers being what they are, will make life difficult.

Having said that, with your experience running succesful Footbrake Big Buck Bracket races, you are the man to make it happen!

As for location of the venue, this decision is going to take considerable thought as some racers will have their noses out of joint when you finally decide. As I am sure you fully understand but it must be stated, "you can't please all the people all of the time."

Given the busy racing schedule of most tracks in the summer, the decision will need to take place sooner than later. One for planning purposes for the tracks and the other to allow the racing community to plan their racing activities.

Given the nature of geography and racer penetration, Division 3 is a good choice however the stellar reputations at Cordova or Earlville makes for a good business case.

Regardless of what you decide, please consider my support and involvement once you make your final decision.

Regards,

Mike Ferstl

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

How about the US-41 track?

Don't know much about it...(never been there)..a bit more "central" than Columbus.

Think it's fairly new...and has hosted IHRA National Events before...so should be big
enough...

Not sure what affiliation it is today....

Would give some racers a "new" destination to go to...

What's going on there today...reasons it's not suitable?

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

We would much prefer that Bowling Green be the facility. We know how the staff at Bowling Green feels about class racing. We usually have a 60+ car field at the Combo races (Bowling Green generously hosts an entire series, and guarantees $1500 to win for a small entry fee) and the track prep is the finest there is, not to mention how racers and fans are treated. Bowling Green offers an absolute known quantity, we know for certain how they'll conduct their facility for a race such as this. Also, the location works, people are familiar with the track, and happy with it, you only need to see the attendance and results from both the Open and the points race. Racers from almost every division in the nation know that when they come to Bowling Green, the track itself will be first rate, and not only will the facility treat them as honored guests, but so will the town that surrounds it.

However, we will certainly support the race if Michael chooses Columbus as the facility.

We spoke with Michael at length at IMIS, twice. The class racers here really need to get on board, and in a public way. We need to help Michael show both the facility and potential sponsors that this race has overwhelming support from the racers.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

I also would like to see it @ Bowling Green.
Would be nice to be able to race my Pure Stocker @ Beech Bend. :)

However, I would travel out of state to be a part of this if need be.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

No matter where it is...I would like to attend...even if the car's not finished.

I'm not sure if it was mentioned....why not just go back to Byron?

Mike, thanks for bringing back the idea...and good luck on the hard work needed to
make it happen. I know it won't be easy given your own stuff you got to do too!

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Talked to Mike at IMIS and he asked to post to show support so I am.

I, like everyone else would like to see this race at my hometrack. Nobody wants to tow any farther than they have to. Diesel is expensive and most people are staying closer to home these days. Columbus is about 550 miles from my house and I would still tow over to take my shot at it if this happens.

Rob Turkal
Stock 3105

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

One of the things that would help make an event like this successful is to get fans coming through the gate. In today's market it is essential to go to your customers and future customers, and give them a reason to attend an event. I feel the NHRA and IHRA have each done absolutely pathetic jobs in advertising sportsman drag racing, especially S/SS. Almost no fans show up for Divisional races on either side-and I think the reason is the fans don't know these events are actually happening.

I would suggest racers show their support of this event by putting their cars on display in high traffic areas wherever the location of the event is chosen-give out discounted tickets, let kids sit in the cars, whatever it takes to get old fans and new fans to pay for a 10 dollar or even 5 dollar spectator ticket. It would take a lot of coordination of course, but I believe most stock and superstock racers are, deep down, 'car guys' and who doesn't want to talk about their cars anyway?

I've got 2 cars that I'll put on display the day before the race weekend starts, just tell me where to be and what to pass out to people.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

I agree Bowling Green is a great track and has a good STK/SS combo turn outs, but Columbus makes more sence.
The problem with Bowling Green is its a longer way to travel for D1,D5 and parts of D3. I think most of the people that live near Bowling Green or Louisville would travel the extra 200-300 miles to Columbus for this race.
Also if Mike is putting this on, it needs to be somewhere near to him. Just like Alex was near Byron.
If you look a the 2001 class nationals the car count was made up of mostly D1,D3 and D5 cars. I feel if the race is located more in middle of those three then the car count could be bigger then in 2001. I see no reason you can't get 250-300 STK/SS cars in columbus for a class nationals type of race.

Columbus is only
185 miles from Pittsburgh PA
500 miles from Madison WI
250 miles from Lansing MI
175 miles from Indianapolis IN
330 miles from Bowling Green KY
225 miles from Louisville KY
350 miles from Knoxville TN
750 miles from Minneapolis MN
560 miles from Atlanta GA

Bowling Green is
500 miles from Pittsburgh PA
550 miles from Madison WI
475 miles from Lansing MI
225 miles from Indianapolis IN
330 miles from Columbus OH
115 miles from Louisville KY
225 miles from Knoxville TN
825 miles from Minneapolis MN
315 miles from Atlanta GA


I think BG could get 200 total STK/SS cars but not much more then that. Remember fuel is $3.85-4.10 a gallon.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

I would drive quite a ways to compete inthis type of race. I have limited time window every year fo racing, so if it wasn't held when i could go then i would buy an entry fee just to support Michael and this race.
I live 20 mi. from Joliet and there are a lot of interstates that intersect near here and they have a lot of weekends where that place is empty.
U.S. 41 at Morocco is just a slippery mess these days and thepeople that own it now don't have any interest in making the track better to help there facility.
Earlville, Cordova or Byron are all good places.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

BG is A BAD CHOICE NOW FOR THE SAME REASON I passed on it in 2001 the congenial sweetheart of an owner
:rolleyes:

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

US41 has the space we test there all the time but, the place has become a UNSAFE DUMP! totally unacceptable for man woman or beast. :( also they have no sanction at this time

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Thank you all for the support and spirited discussion. I've discovered that a lot more people read ClassRacer than ever post, but I think a public display of support means a lot, not only to let other racers know how much interest is there, but also sponsors. The interest and discussion regarding the event ramped up dramatically during this week's IMIS show at Indy, amongst racers and sponsors alike.

As I had addressed earlier in the thread, I've been researching this event for many years now. Any event we put together is going to fit some people's geographic location, finances, scheduling, etc, and not others. It is an impossibility to be all things to all people. What I can promise you is that we will try to put together the best event that we can, in the hopes of satisfying a wide array of customers. We've heard a wide variety of suggestions on facilities: some of which have issues with geography, some with scheduling, some with prohibitive rental costs, etc. Each variable must be weighed on a scale.

I mentioned it earlier in this thread, my selection at this time is National Trail Raceway in Hebron, OH, for May 3-4, 2014. I received a set of quotes on Oct 29, which were reasonable for the facility. I spoke with a number of the staff at IMIS this weekend, who were all excited about the prospects. We will discuss the viability of the date and finalize projected rental costs etc. If we run into problems with scheduling or costs, I may revisit facility options, but if these things remain acceptable, I would seek to move forward.

Given the level of participation at similar events, it would be unlikely that the event could stand completely on its own, unless we had another 'Woodstock' moment like the US Class Nationals. My plan would be to do two $5,000-to-win No-Box races in addition to the Stock & Super Stock races to 1) fill another existing market gap 2) provide S/SS racers with the opportunity to run multiple events if they choose and ultimately 3) bolster the bottom line and viability of the event as a whole.

Rough outline: Subject to change.

Northern Class Nationals & Bottom Bulb Shootout
National Trail Raceway
Hebron, OH - May 3-4, 2014

Friday
Parking & Tech
(If the track wishes to do a test n' tune and/or gambler's race, up to them)

Saturday
No-Box Time Trials and S/SS Qualifying
Class Eliminations (Stock and Super Stock, each)
No-Box Race #1 Eliminations
S/SS Clean-Up Run

Sunday
No-Box Race #2 Eliminations
Stock Eliminations
Super Stock Eliminations


Class Winners will receive Iron Tree trophies. I will work on potential contingency sponsors.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...500_AA300_.jpg


Stock or Super Stock (separate classes, same entry/purse)
Entry Fee: $260
Win: $5,000
R/U: $2,000
Semi: $500
5th Rnd Loser: $300
4th Rnd Loser: $250
3rd Rnd Loser: $200
With 129 or more cars in a class, that class would receive $7,000/win, $3,000/RU, $1,000 semi. (Round money as listed)
I will work on contingency sponsors for the main event.

No-Box (2 races: 1 Sat, 1 Sun. S/SS cars welcome.)
Footbrake and Transbrake cars will be called separately
Entry Fee: $90
Re-Entry: $50 (1st Rnd Only)
Win: $5,000
R/U: $1,000
Semi: $300
6th Rnd Loser: $160
5th Rnd Loser: $120
4th Rnd Loser: $80

All winners will receive Iron Tree trophies, "Big Checks", and collectors trading cards of their winning rides. (Examples from one of our past Footbrake races)

http://www.looserocker.com/fff/2011/..._interview.jpg

http://www.looserocker.com/fff/2011/powell11.jpg

Other random tidbits: Redman is on board. While we haven't talked about it yet, I'll collar Nitro Joe, and I will talk to Travis, Wesley, et.al. for potential Tech positions to provide some credibility and a knowledgable eye. The plan would be to have scales, fuel check, and heads-up runs. I am working on fine-tuning plans for class structures (NHRA/IHRA), but at first glance, I can safely say we run off of the old NHRA indexes, and I would plan to have "new cars" in their own classes.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Sorry,

Won't be there. I'm not traveling 2000 miles round trip just so you Yankee boys won't have to travel more that 200 miles away from home.

Physically, Bristol is a pretty much even distance from everyone but we would travel to Bowling Green.

JimR

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Divisions 1 and 3 have the most Stock/SS cars, it just makes sense to have it somewhere that will draw a lot from those two divisions. Plus, it's pretty much necessary to have the event organizer close to the location.

It sounds like an awesome race, I will be there!

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

That was the ONLY track that we couldn't even get 1/2 way down.

Place is definitely a dump!

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Alex, Dallas and Clay are not the least bit hard to get along with. I guess maybe you have some sort of personal beef with one or both of them. I neither know nor care, but you seem to be one of a very few. I haven't had a problem with either of them in around 20 years or so. Not to mention the fact that a couple of $5K combo races, plus 3-4 years of regular combo racing has gone off pretty much without a hitch.

Michael seems to have made his choice, we can live with it, although it is not great for many Division 2 racers.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

It's been explained, more than once, why this is a better option. If you can;t grasp that, sorry for your loss.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

That's it... 1865 miles..I'm not going now.
Michael, couldn't you have it in Albuquerque or something...for ME?

;-)

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Columbus is not my favorite track, but this past Sports National race the track was the best I've ever seen it. With VHT and Redman it should be fine. I will be there also and if you need some help let me know.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

"Thank you all for the support and spirited discussion"

Kinda like herding cats isn't it?

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Thanks for the "update" on US-41 guys... I knew it had a National Event once or twice
before...so it had the ammenities...and being a little more west...it was more central.

That's ALL I knew.....

Haven't heard a comment on returning to Byron...good or bad....

Mike...before you put the stamp on Ohio...why not consider Earlville? Think you heard
those "kudos" about the place...

How about a mileage assessment on that location? Want to see some of those
western boys!

Got to run to work...who knows...maybe fuel costs will come down in the next year or so!

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

With the tentative date on the same weekend as Atlanta's customary National event weekend I guess D2 racers will have an easier choice although Atlanta has never been my favorite track. Price of diesel vs. dropping gas prices stinks and fuel costs to race is a definite factor.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

If the NHRA schedule is the same in 2014 as it is in 2013, then it would be on top of the Atlanta national event, in which case I expect the FL, GA, AL, SC racers would go to Atlanta. Again, it is impossible to make an event that is perfect for everyone. Even the US Class Nationals had an NHRA National Event on top of it.

Bristol is one of the top facilities in the country, and as such, has a commiserate rental fee, which makes it a non-starter. It would require a much higher entry fee and/or lower payout, which would in turn yield a lower car count, plus it is geographically in competition with a possible Atlanta event, which Columbus is not.


The changes that the facility has made and having raced on it several times myself has given me that confidence. I believe they'll have two more solid NHRA events in the coming year that will establish that 'new Columbus'.

That's a "push" vs "pull" mentality. Rather, you put the warm milk out there -- if the interest is there and you've done your job properly, you have success. If the interest is not there, we'd all find something else to do on that weekend, like we've done every year since the US Class Nationals. My goal is not to be a race promoter for a living. I got into race promotion when an extremely popular, long-running annual event was deleted from the schedule. Racers wanted it back, and no one else would do it, so Anthony Walton and I partnered up to bring it back. The following year, the same thing happened with another popular event, so we picked that one up. We now have 3 big money bracket race weekends on the schedule for 2013. Adding a class nationals event in 2014 would bring the total to 4, and that's *plenty*. Having done three major events now, I'm fully aware of just how much time, effort, and money goes into these things behind the scenes. Even after working numerous Bracket Finals events for IHRA over the years, in any number of positions, I discovered that it falls under "You think you know, but you have no idea." The reward comes at the end of the weekend when your customers leave with a smile on their face and a "Thanks, we had a great time." You deserve to have that experience.

I've definitely heard good things, no doubt. For an inaugural event, in addition to staffing logistics, I'm looking at being able to draw heavily from Div. 1 and Div. 3, while being within fair reach of Div. 5. Quite simply, that's where the bulk of the cars lie. Starting out in Div. 5 would likely gain far fewer cars from the west than the event would stand to lose from Div. 1. If the first attempt doesn't live, there won't be another one. Remember too that unless you get 128+ car fields in both Stock and SS, the event is unlikely to stand on its own. There is an existing base of No-Box cars that are asking for the return of a $5K event in this area, and that's what's going to make it possible to have the event. At this point, I have no working knowledge of possible "support classes" that we can successfully run in conjuction with S/SS in Iowa. You need something strong enough to pay a large portion of the track rental, but not something that's going to overburden track time for the S/SS customers. If we exceed expectations in 2014, then you may have something to work with in the future. I will try to get to Earlville myself in the coming year and check it out. But again, unless the track rental quote gets adjusted out of the realm of feasability, that is where I would like to start.

Many promoters probably wouldn't get into this kind of detail and discussion, but something that was instilled in me by Bill Bader is that as a promoter, I will always give you not only "what" a decision is, but most importantly "why" it was made.

I made my first trip to Atlanta last year, and I liked the place, quite a lot, actually. I believe that they recently put Jim Mcelvey in charge there: he's a racer and a good guy. I may hit the double-header there this year. When I was looking at scheduling, I saw this, but after researching their attendance, I don't see a conflict. The attendance was low in both classes (38 Stock, 33 Super Stock), and only a handful were northern teams. Both Atlanta and Columbus are NHRA-owned facilities, so if there is an issue, we will figure that out very soon. The NTR staff is already checking into it.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

I think it's great that Mike's doing this and applaud him for his effort. Obviously, it will be impossible to keep everyone happy, particularly about the location of the track. I give thumbs up and will spread the word.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Nothing personal the guy is just a JERK on the phone and in person no matter how nice we tried to talk to him

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Columbus will work fine for me.
I'm putting this event on my planner.

Thanks for all your hard work Michael on organizing this event.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Very Cool!!!! We will be there with bells on. I scheduled a UMTR race there back in '08 and Jim Layton & crew at NTR are top notch. You add Redman and possibly Travis and you can't go wrong. Will there be a problem double entering the same car? One entry in Stock and one entry in the no box race but using the same car?

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Michael, just my .02 as a D2 racer. I would skip the Atlanta national to run your race, if it were in Bowling Green. But Columbus is just too far for most of us in the south.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Understood, and realistically, since both Columbus and Atlanta are NHRA owned facilities, we don't want a conflict -- something that would be more of a decision for southern racers if we were at BG.

Nitro Joe is officially in. Travis will not be available, but I will study additional Tech options. I know Don at the track is all in -- he was working Tech at the two Columbus events and later doing pairings in the lanes. Mike Carr has offered to help in any capacity.

Yes, S/SS cars would be permitted to run No-Box as well with the same car. FYI, No-Box would most likely be run 1/8th mile. That's what that crowd likes, and S/SS cars would not get 1000' & 1/4 data to apply to their own class, so there wouldn't be a major advantage over guys that were just running S/SS. Or if you think it would be a major fairness issue, we could allow people to run No-Box just on Saturday, since that's just Qualifying and Class for S/SS. Your thoughts? I'm ok with allowing S/SS cars to run No-Box both days if everyone else is. Rules are basically the same as SS. Transbrake/2step and air/elect shifters ok. Will call Footbrake and Transbrake cars to the lanes separate.

Because No-Box will go more rounds, I think we can do a Sunday time trial for S/SS, which would allow people to get a clean 'bracket mode' hit in case they were on kill for Class.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Something else very important to me is race coverage. Events like this are a big deal, and should be treated as such. I worked the US Class Nationals for IHRA, doing photography, wrote the race coverage, and laid it out in the magazine. I have a number of online outlets that will print coverage, and I'll work on getting physical print coverage for the event as well.

We did two big money bracket races this year. You can view the race coverage at www.looserocker.com. The Footbrake race includes video coverage!

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Just curious if you could explain the reasoning for the big gap in the entry fees for those who might not understand where you are coming from. I'm assuming that its because the bracket race will have buy backs and pay out less for the round wins. I just thought it would be something to talk about so people understand instead of not asking the question for one reason or another and coming to their own assumptions.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

That is exactly it. Class Racers don't like buybacks, which reduces revenue, and the gap between getting paid $200 for winning 2 rounds vs $80 for winning 3 rounds is huge. The round money that S/SS classes are paid is more than double that of No-Box. The total purse for one S/SS class is thousands of dollars higher than No-Box, with half the cars. No-Box has an established base for this type of event for roughly 125 cars. Stock and Super Stock should have an attainable base of 65 cars per class, and if we do our job with promotion, sponsorship, and generally providing the type of race that you the customer wants, we could see 100+ cars per class. We'd also laid out where S/SS classes could earn an extra $5,000 added to the purse if a given class got more than 128 cars -- a bonus not offered in No-Box, which needs that kind of car count to start with. S/SS has the added expense of additional staff required, around $1,500 in trophies just for Class winners, and two days of track time on just one entry fee as compared to No-Box which is an entry fee each day.

I have a Race Purse Calculator spreadsheet that I have spent years developing that crunches just about every number you need for a race: Give it entry fees, buybacks (with multiple options), car count, payouts, spectators (actual # or calculated as 'people per car'), and it will tell you how many cars are in each successive round and how much the payout is for each round, how long it will take to run the race, front gate/back gate income, itemized expenses, and much more. Realistically, just for two days track rental, purse, and misc. expenses, you're looking at close to $60,000.

Great question. Hope this helps!

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Thank you Michael. You put it into words way better than I could have. I've done a little bit of what you are doing but nothing at this level. I just thought it would give people a little glimpse at what all you have to consider by putting an event on such as this. I wish I was back home to help you in someway.

Also, getting back to the double entering for stock and no box. Will there be an issue of a stick car using a 2 step and line lock in no box?

Thanks again.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Not at all. Again, "No-Box" rules, common in Div. 3, are much more open than "Footbrake" rules of Div. 1 and down into the Carolinas. Even in Footbrake, though, Stick cars are allowed a 2-step and line lock.

That's one of several reasons why I paired this event with a No-Box race, to provide more racing opportunities to those S/SS racers who wanted to do so. All S/SS cars are legal to run No-Box. Noted S/SS and 10.90 racer Rick Baehr along with partner Jeff Stewart had promoted the Bottom Bulb Extravaganza for two years (2010 & 2011), and had anywhere from 115-150 cars. That's a tough range to make a big money race live on its own. The risk vs reward is very high, and its very easy to just go racing rather than spend the better part of a year working to try to make a single weekend enjoyable and worthwhile for everyone involved. (I know after mentioning the possibility of adding a 4th event to our promoting schedule in 2014, I received a quiet "Mm." from my wife...) :rolleyes: :p Anyhoo, by combining two "almost make it on their own" events, I think we can have something that's a big enough event, yet still something that's manageable in size. I think we should end up with right around 250 cars on the grounds, which will allow for good parking for everyone. With double-entries, you've still got a good time frame for running the show, and potentially have the makings of an annual event. And hey, if y'all blow the roof off the place, maybe we can go to 3 days the following year with more S/SS-specific festivities.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Michael,

Would love to be able to photo on the ground for you instead of in the stands which is where I usually am. I'm not a professional, but I think I can take a pretty good picture for you to use. Depending on where and when, let me know. I might just come and do it anyway as a spectator.

Butch

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

CompetitionPlus.com will be there, as we were at the first event. The blistering hot Byron event, was sweating in places I never knew I could.

Whether I am there as a journalist or a racer remains to be seen, but we are going to put it in Project White Wagon's [SS/EM] schedule. Regardless we will have staff there.

The one thing I believe is crucial is the bickering which went on at the first one, simply cannot happen this time. As important as the racing is, isn't it secondary to getting together and sharing the style of racing we all love in a format dedicated to us?

Food for thought ...

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Thanks for your support, Butch and Bobby. We'd love to have you! As details come together, we'll talk more in detail about race coverage and photography.

The Columbus staff is checking with NHRA about the date and some other questions I had. Should get an idea where we're at sometime next week.

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

mike,
we would like permission to host the third U/SA shootout as part of your event. we simply need to be paired and laddered for class eliminations, and a close proximity for pit space is pretty cool too last time we had a cookout and bourbon sampling.

i am working on sponsor money and so far i've got $200 up for class champion already(last two total purses added up to $4000+)...anyway "it's on"

captain jack
jmccarthy@sasfe.com

p.s. would like to thank bob shaw for his support and wish him well in T/SA :) :) :)

Re: Class Nationals event planning
 

Sounds good to me, Jack. Thank you for your interest and support!