So how deep and how much do you have to anticipate in a 12 second street car to hit a .4 tree. Average human reaction time is .2-.27 and roll out in a street car has to be .280 or more (i think) which puts me at least .480...Im just trying to figure it out

For those of you who think delay boxes won't impove the consistancy of your reaction times you better think again. They most certainly do. Why do you think they were invented in the first place? We had a racer at our local track that could not buy a round until delay boxes came. He then won multiple track championships. Delay boxes are the great "equalizer". That is why I don't think the drivers that are winning now will want delay boxes. It will just put everybody on the same level as far as hitting the tree is concerned.
I don't know why transbrakes are "needed". Get rid of them and the issue of long, short, adjustable buttons are gone. Some might say, "my car won't leave without one." You mean before transbrakes cars just sat on the starting line? Give me a break.
Now, I'm not one of these guys that doesn't believe in modern technology. It has it's place, especially when durability and safety is concerned. But in my opinion, delay boxes would just ruin class racing.
Sombody said something about not being able to have a green with the new bulbs without a long button or something. I can't belive what I read on here sometimes.

The only way to guarentee no electronics in these classes is to not give out reaction times! We never needed any of that stuff until they started giving us reaction times. Without reation times there is no need for delay devises.

There's a novel idea: The slip has ET and MPH and that's it...nothing else.

Could you imagine the screaming and bit**ing if some track had the guts to simply try this without any prior notice?

That would be the perfect time to also include the "worst" redlight software.

Somebody ought to be bold and simply try this.

that works for me... when i started we got a business card... said

ET

MPH

WIN ____ Lose ________ time trail _______

end of story... end of all the bull**** 1000 foot racers etc....

captain

Not giving out reaction times makes no sense. That doesn't just limit the adjustment of buttons, but the adjustment of the driver as well. I may go to a track that is set up differently, and I adjust how I react based on my timeslip. No buttons, no delay box, just my own reaction point. And leaving on the bottom bulb is harder than the top. The top bulb has fewer distractions, and I don't always leave on the first flicker of the bottom bulb, sometimes it is when the bulb is fully lit, depending on the track. I say if you don't want to drive anymore go to an established super class and let the delay boxes and throttle stops drive for you. Don't screw up the last remaining driver classes with that delay nonsense.

not very deep and leave when the second bulb goes out, works pretty good for a street car. Aboslutely nothing like the 10 sec stocker though

Chad Rhodes
STK 2113
www.rhodesmotorsports.net

I was at the Sportsnationals this past weekend and it is 100% no
to delay devices of any kind among the guys I talked with.
Granted I didn't talk to any of the young hot shoes that like the
delay buttons (two were in the stock finals I believe) but the
concensious is if you want to run delay devices run a super car
or local bracket race. Stock/SuperStock is for people who like
cars to work on and have fun with not just make money with.


SEB

>> The only way to guarentee no electronics in these classes is to not give out reaction times!

That would be the best thing they could ever do FOR a delay box user! While everyone else is wondering where they are at, the box guy rolls time out until he goes red, rolls a little back in, and is in the zone.


Michael Beard
<u>Staging Light Graphic Design & Printing</u>
Duck Tape/Loctite Racing
H - I - J/CM '80 Volare 360 Magnum

Did I hear that right?

NHRA is going to discontinue reaction times for one year?

Wouldn't it be nice to have just one bit less stress on race day?

Yes, I made the first part up. But I do so like that idea. I do.

But, there's too many arguments for having them. Chrondeks do screw up once and a while. And more data helps figure out what happened.



I miss my tranny brake....

spec button

Who would control the such "Spec Button"???? Be real!!! Racers have a lot of ingenuity!!! Just do away with all the electronics and special buttons and bring back the good 'ol fun days!!!!

OK then what's next,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, A SPEC DELAY BOX,,,,,,,,, I just don't think NHRA is understanding the CAN OF WORMS they are opening just by thinking about delay boxes in Comp and S/S....There is so much other stuff along with the box ,,,,,,,,,,,,it is unreal what electronics can do. Just my 2 cents worth..

Stan Perry

>> Who would control the such "Spec Button"????

It'd be easy to check to see if a button had, say, no more than 1/2" of 'throw' to it. Then everyone wouldn't have to buy new buttons, just the guys with the long throw switches.


Michael Beard
<u>Staging Light Graphic Design & Printing</u>
Duck Tape/Loctite Racing
H - I - J/CM '80 Volare 360 Magnum

Just put a removable collar on the switch and you will fool the inspectors on the amount of movement. Just do away with the switches and electronics and end of discussion.

Stock should be footbrake only. SS if they use boxes but block the tree so you cant cross over you might see the slower car have an advantage. Especially if it over a 1.5 second spot. What do you think Beard.

Herb jr

>> Just put a removable collar on the switch and you will fool the inspectors on the amount of movement.

If that fools them, then they are not "inspectors". Most buttons I've seen have either been mounted in the steering wheel, on a mount next to the steering wheel, or next to the shifter -- all areas in which the 'back' of the button is not hidden.

But I'll agree... get rid of the stuff, and things become a whole lot simpler.

Herb - since I don't believe that delay boxes should be involved in S/SS racing, the rest of your question is a moot point. ;-)


Michael Beard
<u>Staging Light Graphic Design & Printing</u>
Duck Tape/Loctite Racing
H - I - J/CM '80 Volare 360 Magnum

Here's a concept. NHRA could take a position like NASCAR and the restricter plates - NHRA would issue you a standardized "spec" button at the beginning of the event - everybody's the same.
Can you imagine the crying!
Chuck

Neat graphics and perfect comment. Really dont think a trans brake is needed in SS either...... Adjust your four link and go..

Dick Butler 3529

Wow, you put alot of effort into that post Mr. Ingognito. You must be getting some personal gain from it being "footbrake only"?,,?
But I don't agree with you on this. You will give more of an advantage to guys like Biondo, Fletcher, Bertozzi etc who grew up footbraking. Think about it.

In stock there should be no buttons what's so ever, no line lock (except standard shift) and no 2 steps. High speed 2 step only. People that are good in footbrake will still be good, but it will take a tool out of the hands of the people that doing this as a job. It will even out the playing field. The buttons are nothing but delay boxes mechanically. For the people that can't seem to catch a light, there sould be deep staging allowed again. Prestage like is only there to tell you when you are approaching the starting line and that's it. If the front wheel is on the line, what's the difference where it is on the line?
Casey Miles
248H F/S
PS. I don't need a 2 step racing a 4 speed!

If footbraking gives someone an advantage, it's because they are a better driver, and should be rewarded for such. Also I agree that we should eliminate 2-steps/transbrakes, but I don't agree with line locks. Some tires need some heat and by rules we can't burnout past the line.

I race at an IHRA track called Immockalee, there if you have a line lock it has to be on a toggle switch, not a momentary. This way it can't be used on the starting line. Like I said before, manual shift cars need a line lock to hold the car still while waiting for the tree.
Casey Miles
248H F/S

I saw some wagon hit the wall last year at the div 3 race, that was supposed to be caused by the toggle switch line lock.

Racers use the toggle switches all the time at Immokalee, no problems so far. It's really easy, you don't need a line lock to do a burn out with an automatic, because you can override the back brakes. So, no auto cars need line locks The manual shifts have a slite problem though.
Casey Miles
248H F/S

I am concerned about what is the reason for a slow transmission in a Super Stocker ???

Is this the same as a trans button?

I heard that the Slow(delay) transmission is in a lot of super stockers these days . How does this work?

Have you tried doing a burnout with a 14" tire and dual-caliper rear brakes without a line-loc? I agree with you guys I'd love to see two-steps, transbrakes, and all that stuff gone, but I fail to see how removing the line-loc is going to cure anything.

For that matter, take away the air shifter too.

Just my $.02

Jared Jordan
7551 SS/BA

I guess I'm of a slightly different opinion...I would LEGALIZE a SPEC trans brake & have it included in Stock! After all, the reason most automatic Stockers are running a two-step is because they don't have a trans brake. Due away with 2-steps in Stock, and let them have a SPEC trans brake and leave off the converter (which is similar to what the stick guys/gals do with a clutch).

Have a SPEC trans brake in Super Stock and Comp (could even be a different 'button'). And as long as I'm at it---put ALL Super Stock cars running with 'hood scoups' that didn't come equiped with them from the FACTORY in Comp (where they belong)!

And my final rule would be, before ANY combo get's hit with Hp...that car must PASS tear down.

See ya in Staging!

To Al You Young Guys:

As an ol' guy you are making me proud seeing a new generation
that has some common sense when it comes to stock/super stock.
I was afraid all you younger guys would want the latest trick stuff
but am pleasantly surprised.
As on ol'(only old on the outside) guy I would like to see line locs with
a micro switch,instant on/off with no adjustment possible, 2-steps
for use doing a burn-out only for automatics and burn-outs and
holding rpm at the line for sticks. This way there will be no possibility
for any use of 'buttons' on the launch for automatics.
Julie raised a smart boy it looks like.

SEB

And as long as I'm at it---put ALL Super Stock cars running with 'hood scoups' that didn't come equiped with them from the FACTORY in Comp (where they belong)!

And the reason is???

'RG' Menard

I think the reason that a bunch of us young guys don't like the delay stuff, is the fact that many of us came from the Jr. Dragster ranks where you only have a steering wheel, a brake, and a throttle. No buttons, no nothing. Unfortunately the only readily available classes that do not allow delay boxes are Stock/ Super Stock. Comp is only run at Divisional/Nationals. And if you drive a dragster at most local tracks it has to be in a box ET category.

There is no way you can run a "Spec" Transmission Brake for all car models or switch. Let's go back to the basics and drive our cars, even the Pro Stock guys have to shift their cars.

I second the comment about Jordan...Julie...you are raising a very smart kid.

Whats Stock about Stock ? If you want Stock, lets get rid of converters,light weight transmissions, cams, race fuel, headers, slicks aftermarket brakes, ignition systems, all the contingency sponsors and everything else you can think of.

Art Wilson

Incognito Gecko...if you loose now you will lose no matter the rules...and the scrolling, blacked out, misspelled banners arn't that cool either. I agree with above post, stock will never be STOCK.

In my opinion, the use of any delay device in a Super Stocer would undermine the integrity of the performance based class. Perhaps stricter policing of the rules to prevent entirely the use of such devices, including variable throw transbrake buttons would better uphold the value of the class, because if this question is being posed, then I am sure some delay devices have already been discovered. Please reserve these items for those racers that feel aluminum interiors, fiberglass noses, throttle stops, and lexan windows belong on racecars, and leave Super Stockers the way they have always been and should always be, driven.