Re: Racer Suspension $5000 - are you crazy
 

Please tell us how has Bob skirted the system all the time!!!

When he showed up at the track many years ago with the 260-4bbl Olds Cutlass, the car had been in the books for many years and Bob built one based on data in the NHRA tech sheets like anyone one else could have done.

As regards to the approval of the F.I. Olds 350 engine from the Cadillac was Bob's initial idea; it got shot down by NHRA when he submitted it. However, it later got approved by NHRA when Randy Mans submitted the same data to NHRA.

So, in a nutshell, please tell me again how he has skirted the system.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

I believe Bob Shaw was running the Injected Olds in his Stocker long before it became a consideration in Superstock.

Also, I have some older NHRA tech manuals (from back when you bouht them), and I never did find the HP rating or the intake manifold number for a 4-bbl. 260 Olds. It doesn't exist in my manuals.

It might be an error like the 327 Intake on the 283's, but that one was so screwed up it was actually missing a number in the original tech sheets, but allowed anyway. Maybe NHRA corrected the Olds data and removed it. In any case my manuals never showed a 4-bbl. Olds 260. Ya gotta love Bob Dennis regardless.

J

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Guess this means you have to question everything in the tech book before you build it.

Re: Racer Suspension $5000 - are you crazy
 

I think he means that if you aren't running cookie cutters like an LS or LT GM, a big or small block Chevy. a V8 mopar etc . You are skirting the system.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...=224617&page=2

Re: Racer Suspension $5000 - are you crazy
 

Well I've got to call B.S. on this one. In 1991 I built one of those cars and at the time there was no intake number listed in the blueprint specs. Now I'd be lying if I said that i didn't know that it was a bogus combo when I built it. I called Jim Skelly who was, at the time working in Ca. for the Tech Dept. to get a legal intake # and Jim told me "don't build the car, it's a mistake". Jim was going to bring to Dave Danish's(?) attention and fix it. It never got fixed. So not "anyone" else could have done it and I did my car years before Bob did his.
I don't know exactly what happened and what ensued but it sure doesn't seem to me to deserve that kind of a penalty! And it really shouldn't matter whether he was, is or has been "skirting the system" anyway. He should only be penalized for what he was caught doing at the time.

Re: Racer Suspension $5000 - are you crazy
 

Well, did not know you had built one; therefore, Bob was the first one to show up at the track with one.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Thanks, for the link, Lee was my all time favorite racer.Rarely a day passes that I don't think of his tragic passing, some 28 years ago.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

The Olds 260 4-bl never existed. That engine had a 4-bl intake but the carb used was a version of the quadrajet with the secondaries blanked out. Olds did this so they did not have to cast a special 2-bl intake. It was easier to alter the quadrajet carb casting.

The first time I saw that combination run at Indy I told Jim Skelly and Dave Danish that it was wrong and did not come with a 4-bl. It took some persistent arguing on my part over a long period of time to eventually get the quadrajet removed from the 260 engine spec. For those who have never seen the blanked out 2-bl version of the quadrajet check this out...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/rochester-2m...50796919882%26

Re: Racer Suspension $5000 - are you crazy
 

So Holier than Thou Billy Nees would knowingly build a bogus combination? Really! Then I find it quite hypocritical you would arrange a meeting with NHRA about AMC parts you perceive as "bogus." Why would you not have marched into NHRA proving the Olds 260 4bbl was "bogus?" Because obviously it served your needs. I'd always heard (from numerous sources) it was you that got the Olds 260 4bbl removed from the books. Now I 'm hearing different. Hmm interesting..
A previous post you said the 283 - 327 intake needed to be "corrected". What progress have you made with NHRA on the removal of that "bogus" part?
What parts are next in your catalog?

Re: Racer Suspension $5000 - are you crazy
 

Holier than Thou huh? I'm thinkin' no! But I wasn't blowing smoke rings up anybodys a** to get it put in the guide either. I can take somebody like you calling me a hypocrite, no problem. If you talked to Mr. Lang about that deal, I'm pretty sure that you would find that I'm the one that finally got it removed. NHRA knows very well how I feel about the 327 intake on a 283 deal. That's not over yet. My next bogus part? Getting the TRW race piston specs removed from the 70 AMC 390 and getting the right piston specs put back in!

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Hi Travis, only the 1975-76 260 had the full bodied Dual-Jet on them and the intake was actually cast with no secondary holes in it. The rear of the carb just hung over open air. The 77-82 260s had a smaller version of a Dual-Jet like the ones that came on Buick and Chevy V6s and the infamous 301 2V Pontiac. The basic difference in the size was that the 260s used the primaries of a 750 Q-Jet and the others used primaries of an 800 Q-Jet.
OBTW, would you mind talking to Bruce about that 390 AMC piston thing if you see him?

Re: Racer Suspension
 

I am pretty sure that the 1981 Pontiac G/Prix had the 260 with a 4bbl fleet car California only quite a few made it into large company fleets

Re: Racer Suspension
 

That was a 252 Buick V6 with a 4bbl in the GPs.
Or by 81 it could have been a 307 Olds.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

look what you can buy on e-bay
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ATI-SUPER-DA...58641a&vxp=mtr

I don't think the ATI folks would appreciate this.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Billy, I'm pretty sure it was a 260 4bbl I worked in Pontiac dealers for years the car was only available in California for one year. I remember a lot of complaining from the fleet customers cause the 1980's were POS with the 231 6 cylinder so the 260 was the answer not a good answer cause they were also dogs I somehow remember the 49 state vehicle could not pass Cailf. smog. and that was what created that car. Back in the day Fleet customers were huge business.

But back to the original post whoever made the seat belts probably didn't make just one set so there could be more out there

Re: Racer Suspension $5000 - are you crazy
 

Oh come on now Bill.The god (notice small case g) of AMC racing and the matinee idol of AMC racing boards would never have bogus pistons in his garage racing AMX.
Shame on you. Tsk tsk tsk.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Hi Joe, I'm having trouble with this thing being made..anywhere, still...and the .474 lift cam too.

Re: Racer Suspension $5000 - are you crazy
 

i know a few of us amc racers got hung out to dry on the intake/carb/cams.....and i blame NHRA for not checking before puting it in the specs....

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Wasn't this tread about seatbelts?

Re: Racer Suspension
 

I find it interesting that alot of us get on planes everyday that are 20 years or older (and private planes even older) with belts that are deemed comepletely safe by FAA but NHRA makes us change every 2 years.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

The Boeing 777 has an inspection interval of 12000 hours of operation for seat belts. This is only an inspection, not replacement. It is subjective; you inspect the belts and if they look, appear worn or frayed, or the mechanism does not work, then they are replaced.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

And this is from a industry that puts safety as the #1 priority. Having worked in that industry for over 30 years and having experience with SCCA and other sanctioning bodies I think many of the NHRA safety rules are arbitrary window dressing that defy common sense and dumb down tech inspection (no disrespect to the great tech folks). They send hand grenades down the track and make small incremental safety steps and have failed to develop a tire/wheel tether system or body integrity systems that would keep flopper bodies out of the spectator areas. Biggest safety advance they could make would be to roll back 40 years and institute the Big Daddy rules package (I.e.starts at the end of a run or you are disqualified). They'd get bigger fields in the PRO's and take less time to run, make track prep equal for everyone as well. Instead they enforce non-sensical rules like the belts which chafe at all the sportsmen racers, not all of whom have 500K operations. Wonder how long dragster racers lobbied for a secondary hand brake? Too long....

All that said, it's their rules so if you want to play on their sandlot then it is what it is.

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NHRA is simply requiring repeat business for companies in return for their sponsorship, right?

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Especially when Carl Olson, former NHRA VP, is the Motorsports Manager at SFI...

Re: Racer Suspension
 

You didn't get the change of topic memo? LOL

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Biggest safety advance they could make would be to roll back 40 years and institute the Big Daddy rules package (I.e.starts at the end of a run or you are disqualified).

Sorry, I am only in my early fifties. What does this "starts at the end of a run" mean?

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Big advocated a rules package that included at the end of a run the fuel cars should be able to restart and run. If they couldn't they would be disqualified. He had a well thought out proposal to control cost and improve the racing but guys like Bernstein advocated the go fast approach that requires mega sponsorship $$$ to field a car. The DSR/JFR circus is the result.....

Re: Racer Suspension
 

means that car would have to be able to start and run at end of track,nitro cars.
Big Daddy thought it would be good,cut back on oil downs and keep guys from leaning on stuff so hard they blew up every pass.
Mike Taylor 3601


I type way too slow

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Maybe another magneto and a bigger fuel pump would help you're typing speed! Lol

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Written here are opportunities for IHRA to take advantage of.

IHRA is a lot more racer friendly than NHRA and somehow are not getting the support.
But a change in the Seat Belt Rule much like the airlines and SCCA are appropriate and would draw frustrated racers to IHRA.

In fact IHRA should address all the rules to make them current especially for safety. Never understood the Helmet rules either but that is another topic.

FYI..discovered a company that refirbishes Stock Seatbelt systems back to original for restoration and for performance can have the color of the seat belt changed.

I do not think I am allowed to list the company.
But they are out of Florida.

Dan

Re: Racer Suspension
 

I believe the topic is on a racer being out of compliance on a safety item. Plain and simple. In all situations a cool head will have a better chance to prevail too. Like everything else in this thread its all rumors and hear say from the racer/owners perspective. I would like to think that NHRA had sufficient grounds for making this call too. Its unfortunate for the individual, but a rule is a rule.


IHRA is fine for everyone that can pick and chose to have those options. But in the midwest its either an unsanctioned track or NHRA within an 8hr drive. Either way it does not matter what xHRA you have its what track or series you want to attend. And like everything in life, as soon as you roll onto someones property you play by their rules. If you don't want to play by those rules go somewhere else. If you can't afford a $150-250 set of belts every 2 years you probably can't afford the fuel to just get to a race. Again it's the rules that we know full and well before we leave the house to head to the track.
Anyone sitting on a pile of outdated belts, there is ebay. So you can knock off a minimum of $25 on your new belts for the old ones you get rid of.

People pay $11+ for a gallon of fuel but bitch about a safety item really?

Sean

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Sheesh! It ain't the money...it's the stupidity

and if I read another post offering IHRA as an option I may just go over the edge...it's NOT an option west of the east coast

sorry, had to vent

Re: Racer Suspension
 

To bring the discussion back to seat belts, what do I need to have in my V/Stock El Camino? I don't need a roll bar, so I don't need a harness. Does someone make SFI approved lap belts?

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Your factory installed seat belts are fine as long as they don't show signs of excessive wear or the material is torn/ripped. Make sure their factory installed anchor points are stock as well.

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If i'm not mistaking out dated belts can be used in N and up in stock.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Speaking of "racer friendly" IHRA. My U/S had out dated 3" belts and the tech guy doing my car told me I had to have current belts. I asked if I couldn't just run the stock 40 year old belts? He said OK. I was on the verge of taking them out of the glove box to install when a tech guy with a little more sense showed up.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Racers are an interesting group. But like most folks, if you have 3 people you have 3 opinions. Back when I started working for NHRA in 1970 a lot of the tech stuff was left up to the official. People complained because so and so accepted this last month and now you won't. We still have that with the so called east coast/west coast rules. The seat belt rule and mentioned helmet rule took the subjectivity out of the rules and made it black and white. Some complained about the subjectivity and some now complain about the black and white. You can't please everyone. Do I feel good about replacing seemingly good belts, helmets and other past date parts, Heck no. But I wouldn't feel good getting to the track with what I thought was a good set of belts, helmet or whatever and be told to change them before I can race either, like used to happen.
I just want to get to the track again.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

This guy gets it which can't be said for most that have replied.

Re: Racer Suspension
 

Xxx