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Quite a tune up here, courtesy of NHRA and the AHFS (You know what Captain Jack calls it)



627 Brian Seaberg
C3 ****WINNER**** 0.079 14.073 91.44
U/SA Index: 15.11 (+/-): -1.037
Prior rounds:
C2 (T Patterson ) 0.098 14.218 92.50
C1 (J Lang ) 0.079 14.323 85.64
Qualified: #52 14.323 85.64

Seaburg wins the class trophy.

(note)
I realize this wasn't a direct product of the AHFS, but I noticed NHRA didn't take it back either, after it was pointed out this was a No. 1 qualifying and record holding engine combination

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So, he ran 14.07 on a 15.11 index (-1.037) and it's an issue, why?

627 Brian Seaberg
C3 ****WINNER**** 0.079 14.073 91.44
U/SA Index: 15.11 (+/-): -1.037

This same argument has come up over and over and depending on what it was, received support/ridicule. A combo is 200hp new, nhra lists it as 300hp before it hits the track, is this right in anyones eyes? If it's a 450hp combo that's listed as 200 by the company then yes it's right but really, 2v 302?? Why are all 72-82 rated the same? Are all 350 2v the same? or 273 2v? I realise there are a lot of ford bashers on here, but the thought of 302's taking over and never being corrected is silly.
Ls1, cobra jet, lots of others underrated...it eventually gets sorted out.(and not in the 10 year span predicted either)

Yup, there a ford ringer out there being exploited by one guy....like that's never happened before with a chev or dodge....reminds me when Bill Elliot used to win with a ford in the 80's in nascar, all the fords were hit with penalties, even though elliot was first then the next ford was in about 15th place and the last 5 cars of any race were fords...but elliot would win and the fords would be hit with another restriction. Yeah that's when I stopped watching the anti-ford nascrap.

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As a matter of fact, all 350 2Vs ARE rated the same! Even though the 71 and newer ones have a different intake, head, dished piston and smaller carb.
Way back in ancient history when the manufacturers went from a gross HP rating system to a net HP rating system, the people in charge at NHRA at that time changed ALL of the net ratings to gross ratings. All of a sudden, 40+ years later somebody in Glendora decides that a mistake was made but only affecting 302 Fords. If that sombody wants to fix the "mistakes" then ALL of the 72 and newer HP factors need to be changed!
I'm glad to see Brian out there racing a "Dime Rocket" and I hope that 50 more get built BUT, Brians Q/SA index runner just became a U/SA hitter because sombody sitting behind a desk in Glendora didn't research the "mistake" that was brought to his attention before he acted on it!
Face the facts, a 302 Ford at it's old factor of 162 HP compares just fine to a 307 Chevy at 175 HP or a 318 Mopar or AMC at 180. It's just not right at 129-143.

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Point taken Billy, but look at the 302 exh port, looks like something for a 2L..no wait, they're bigger too! LOL!

I wonder if a 162hp 302 would even run with a 175hp 307 though? I'm thinking probably not but I could be wrong.

Some tempting to build one now though ain't it?

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Never been inside a 307 have you? A 307 head and intake are totally unique for a smallblock Chevy head and intake. They don't even compare to a 283.
The 302 has a bunch better carb too! The throttlebore and venturi sizes are similar but the rochester 2V is really restricted in the airhorn. Not open like a motorcraft.

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"Thou shalt not ever speak ill of Fords" with you huh?

This has got nothing to do with Fords , per se.
I 've managed to get some good ink with Fords over the years..So what?

This is about fairness and parity, and integrity..all which seems to be lacking in this case.

Have your Fordgasm ....and then study the issues , without all the brand loyalty.
Have a nice day...

Oh, and congrats to Brian Seaburg

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Being a ford guy I get slammed a lot but that's a classic Mark! LOL!!!

No, never been inside a 307. I see what people are saying with the 162, yeah it's more in line. I'm finally seeing a ringer with a oval and drooling that's all:)

Put it this way, anything that runs -2.0 is out of whack, or -1.0 without a LOT of work.


Fordgasm..classic! LOL!

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.reminds me when Bill Elliot used to win with a ford in the 80's in nascar, all the fords were hit with penalties, even though elliot was first then the next ford was in about 15th place and the last 5 cars of any race were fords...but elliot would win and the fords would be hit with another restriction. Yeah that's when I stopped watching the anti-ford nascrap.

This was an earlier quote......did you know that Elliot's Fords were narrower than the other Fords, therefore getting through the air better. He got away with it for years, but it finally came out.

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REALLY??? I've never heard that before! Course that was when I had enough and stopped watching anything to do with nascrap and haven't gone back. That would certainly explain a lot, it was always assumed Ernie was (actually he is) an excellent engine builder with help from Yates and Wilson. Meh, point still is though, regardless of how quick one car was, they kept hitting all of them even though they trailed the field by 2 seconds. One can't deny the anti-ford bias in nascrap. Heck offer enough money and even an import like toyota can race a v8 rwd car...oh wait...LOL!

Back to the point though,
302 at 162 is .54hp per cube
307 at 175 is .57hp per cube
318 at 180 is .57hp per cube

and yet historically nobody would build a 302 because it wasn't deemed competetive.

Now at 143hp it's .47hp per cube and runs -1.03.

So, now AutoHPfor Slugs will bring it back up to .50 or .51 where it is comparable to a chev or dodge at .57
Sad truth is, the ford heads suck and stock, won't put out comparible hp numbers to a chev.

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I like that nhra refactored this combo. I do think it went a little far ,should have probably only been 10 hp. before brian's combo could barely qualify at sea level. now he has a competitive older car that could bring in new racers to stock for relatively cheap. and yes i'm happy because this will get me back in stock eliminator hopefully by next year with this combo!

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What are you building Bob? I've got the parts to convert my 83gt mustang from former bracket car into a crate engine, but swap the nose to a 79 and get the engine parts and I can run a real stocker..well not that crate motors aren't "real" per se, but I've always wanted to run a stocker. This gives me another (very viable) option.

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building a 72 comet I've had sitting around.

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Isn't everyone sitting on one of those? ;)

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Way to go Bob! Seabergs car will have a twin.

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it's green also!

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Just in case anyone is interested. http://images.craigslist.org/00707_L...9k_600x450.jpg
Eastern NC craigslist for $6500, located in Dunn, NC

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Puke green or that funky light Lime Green? Mine is a very light yellowish-green, and 4door to boot! We will have 3 or 4 of these monsters in Div 6! Mine already runs and drives, so I can't screw that part up like my last attempt!

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like brian's car.

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Looks blue to me.

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oops his is gold.

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So Bill, the bottom line here is what? Your buddies car ran a 12.27 on a 12.65 SS/PA index with a 75% motor on one of it's first times out and I'm gonna guess that it wasn't within 200 lbs. of it's minimum weight(it's 2600 lbs. with driver BTW) and all that you had to do was screw over a couple of dozen STOCK racers that run U/S and U/SA for the next 20 years and anybody at Indy that planned on being #1 qualifier!
Good job! A** hole!

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My 318 Slug at .47 hp per cube is 149.
20x149+170= 3150
I just went 13.25 at maple grove at 3165 which is -1.60 under the U/SA index of 14.85.


.50 per cube and .57 per cube is a huge difference btw

That's a slap in the face to the guys that have been running the class for 20 years working on their combos. Those fords shouldn't have been changed. That's horse****.

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If I was a Ford guy and they rated my 302 cu in V8 at 129 HP, I'd be embarrassed.
Look at the 304 AMC (same carb) 180HP, 273 Dodge 171 HP (smaller carb), 258 AMC, 150 HP. I could go on and on. The 302 probably deserved a little adjustment but this was ridiculous. Fortunately, I can hide in V, many can't.

Jim Mantle U/V/SA 6632

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It looks like the adjustment is here for good.

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not sure which year is 129hp. 143hp is what I see.

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The 72 Comet and 73 Maverick are 143

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75 is at 129, 76 at 133, 77 at 137.

It may not be right, but if it gets some more racers out there, is it all bad? If it all works as it should (yes, I am naive, and putting trust in the AFHS system), these cars will all be back in Q and R by mid 2014, right?

Honestly, they should cut the same breaks to the Mopar, GM, and AMC camps, for fairness, AND the sake of parity. Think of the cool heads-up pairings that could create!