Cut and pasted from George Washington University's School of Business :

........... This definition does not preclude a non-profit corporation from making a profit, which may seem inconsistent with the name non-profit corporation. In fact, non-profit corporations should be governed as if they are a business, and profit-generation should be one of the goals of the non-profit corporation. The owner/CEO must understand that the profits cannot be used to the benefit of its members and must, therefore, understand and adhere to the standards and guidelines that are set and governed by the state in which the non-profit corporation is incorporated..............

Thats how they teach it, perhaps other schools teach differently.

OK, we have really degraded Jim's thread now.
Maybe some folks enjoy learning more about 501c's than they thought they would. [:-laughing-:]

Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem

Again cut and pasted off of a link from the George Washington School Of Business :

................However, a nonprofit corporation is not prohibited from making a profit, but there are limitations on what it can do with its profits. There also are limitations on how it can make money. For example, if a nonprofit corporation engages in profit-making activities unrelated to its recognized nonprofit purpose, it must set up a separate corporation to engage in that activity or risk losing its nonprofit, or tax exempt, status................

The second line has me wondering :
>> For example, if a nonprofit corporation engages in profit-making activities unrelated to its recognized nonprofit purpose, it must set up a separate corporation to engage in that activity or risk losing its nonprofit, or tax exempt, status................<<

Will this make it harder to invest the 100 Mil. than I thought ? Or will they just set up more Corp's ?

There have been a few fairly official sounding posts on the 501c conversation here. Unless the person posting is a CPA, or has an MBA, it would be great if you could back up your posts with cut and paste's off of official links, so we know the information is correct. As I've started doing.

It's been fun, but I got to go to work and make some profit now. WHOOPS, sorry, net earnings. lol

Later



Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem

Well, Mike, all your comments are taken to heart, but the range of the functions of 501c organizations is so broad that to make some kind of argument that we deserve or should get some compensation based on the practices of some and the opinions of others is a very, very thin stretch. No one would consider arguing that the individual members of the Democratic Party should receive a portion of the donations given and campaign funds raised (even though they HEAP the product on all of us whether we want it or not), yet poloitical parties are 501c chartered. No one would go to the Red Cross and expect a portion of donations based on the fact that you are a member and donate blood. If you still think you "deserve" a cut, take it to the ACLU, they are another 501c. I'm quite sure they don't want to give you any of the revenue they have accumulated from the mass quantity of tax-payer funded court cases they have screwed the American public with.

Mike:

Further to the observation that "if a nonprofit corporation engages in profit-making activities unrelated to its recognized nonprofit purpose, it must set up a separate corporation to engage in that activity or risk losing its nonprofit, or tax exempt status", one has to wonder if this wasn't a factor in NHRA's decision to deal off NHRA Pro. The objectives of the non-profit NHRA corporation, as have been stated before, focus on safety, education, etc.. However, in recent years, their activities and revenues have primarily been focused upon what could be characterized as the entertainment business of pro racing. It must have been increasingly difficult for NHRA to claim that their big-league entertainment operation somehow met its non-profit objectives. Hence, it needed to either deal the pro racing operation off to others or create its own for-profit corporation to keep it separate from the grass-roots operation from whence it came. That they chose the former course of action is perhaps just another sign that NHRA really does intend to return to its roots. Let's hope so.

Checked one more time before I walked out the door.

GOOD Point Poverty !
Perhaps the Powerade side was indeed getting hard to explain.


Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem

Dwight, I'm sorry I don't have time to cut and paste off of the Offilcial IRS website what I'm about to say, but I will later if you'd like.
But threre are several different types of 501c's. 501's for political parties have many different rules and codes than the 501 we're talking about.

But once again, my original thought about this is being twisted.
I will say again......I AM NOT ASKING FOR ANY OF THE 100 MILION DOLLARS !!!!!!!!

I am pointing out that it was RACERS that built the NHRA in to what it is today. Racers before me, but I've spent a ton since I've been racing.

The undisputable fact at the present time is :
There will be 4-10 million dollars off of interest and investement EXTRA revenue coming in from now to infinity. ( unles they are REALLY bad investers )

The racers deserve as I mentioned............a better racing environment, if economically feasable to do so.
From all the e-mails I'm gettin, no one can figure out why ANY racer would be against this. I can't figure it out either.

Ok I AM going to work now.

Mike ( madness & ) Mayhem

Right....

I wasnt using a play on words, but you have to get that word PROFIT out of your head. When NHRA has Net Earnings, those can be invested to create a larger fund for the organization, but cannot be pocketed by a single individual.


Lee Norton
I/PS '02 Firebird 231 V6

That's still a stretch. I suppose, then, it was racers that built the AHRA, the UDRA and many other now-defunct racing organizaition into what they are today. Maybe then the racers whould have to pay for those failures???

I started street racing in 1966 and then participated in NHRA drag racing starting in 1967. I was always glad NHRA was there. NHRA made drag racing honorable. Racers have worked a lot to tear down the honor NHRA has attempted to establish through cheating, belly-aching, whining, and attacking NHRA management for every mis-step they have made. There have been movements to subdivert the NHRA for as long as I can remember. No, I don't think "we" deserve the credit. There have been, and are, individuals who have contributed to the advancement of NHRA drag racing. We could all name some. I suppose the question to each one of us is, are we one of them?? Paying your entry fees and membership fees don't necessarily put you in that category. My 40 years experience being involved in this sport would not be the rich memories I have without the opportunities NHRA has afforded.

Dwight,
"Bravo" Well said. It is interesting how quite a few of us have similar NHRA roots, history & cherished memories.

Adger Smith

I wonder if the new owners are going to make improvements to the track they have purchsed?
Just wondering since I probably wont travel to any of them.

Ed F.
15 T/SA
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Dwight...very well put. Though I'm still hoping for an increase in the payout (not from the monies NHRA just received, but simply as a correction to the lack of payout over the last 20 years.

Ed, I would bet money that NHRA Pro Racing will put money into those tracks, and I would bet money that Columbus will have it's National event back in the near future. NHRA's largest source of revenue is ticket sales. NHRA Pro Racing has already stated that they plan on expanding the schedule at least another 2 or 3 events, and as long as the racers will support it, there's probably no reason not to expand to another 10 events (i.e. like NASCAR). There are still plenty of locations in the US where races could be added that are currently lacking from a drag racing standpoint. The Northwest (Portland) and New England (something in the Boston area immediately come to mind. If you look at the map of the US that shows the locations of the existing events, it's quite obvious. Here's a link to the HD Partners presentation as to why they were interested in NHRA, and the map is shown on page 11 of the presentation:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...68_2ex99d1.htm

So, the quickest and easiest way to add events would be to go to existing facilities: Columbus (especially since they already own it and all the money goes in their pocket, and it has supported a national event for the last 30 years), Woodburn, and I don't know, maybe make a play for Epping?

They've also said that they would like to move outside of North America, but for the time being I really think that just means Canada. I know there's a drag strip in Monterey, Mexico, but traveling to Canada is still much easier than Mexico. Though, I'm not sure that either country really offers a great location to host an NHRA National Event. Sanair in Quebec (where they used to hold the NHRA national event), is the only facility that I think it currently a viable option, but if you were going to pick a location, I really think they'd want it to be much closer to Niagara Falls / Toronto than Montreal. But, Toronto Motorsports Park is the only track anywhere near there, and even then it's not really where you'd like it to be, and the facilities simply aren't up to snuff for an NHRA event. Maybe somebody will build something...who knows...

So, in summary, I'm going to look for improvements at the tracks they own (specifically Atlanta, Columbus, and Gainesville), otherwise they wouldn't have purchased them. In addition, I think you'll see Columbus and Woodburn get national events very quickly, with another added to a to-be-named track in the New England area (where there's a large population base that's currently not being served the NHRA product).

Now make it so!

Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838

Jason;
Do you think they would try to make a move on Rockingham?Clear Channel doesn't seem to be showing much interest in IHRA as faras acquiring new track affiliations.

Ed

Ed,

Rockingham is an interesting proposition, as NHRA certainly could use the exposure in the auto racing capital of the US, Charlotte, NC. Charlotte is halfway between the races at Virginia and Atlanta, but even those are about 150 miles away. There's a good population base in that area too, so I think geographically it makes sense.

That said, I don't know if Rockingham is NHRA caliber or not currently, or if it could be made NHRA caliber. I'm not 100% certain of the history of the track, but I think at one point not too long ago it was NHRA sanctioned but then switched back to IHRA. But, maybe I'm remembering another track.

Regardless, maybe somebody else could chime in on the current condition of the track, but I think it would make sense from NHRA's standpoint. Of course, IHRA might not be so willing to let them go either (I don't think there is another track in the Charlotte area that is even remotely close to being big enough to host an IHRA or NHRA national event).


Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838

>>That said, I don't know if Rockingham is NHRA caliber or not currently,

Rockingham hosted the NHRA Winston Invitational.

>> Regardless, maybe somebody else could chime in on the current condition of the track,

The track was great this year. I've been racing there since the beginning of last year. The tinkered with some new traction compound stuff, and the hook was always there. Like some other tracks, it can get treacherous at night and although the track itself is among the widest on the circuit, the groove is fairly narrow. A good bit of paved pit area, some nice areas under trees. The 'back 9' (again, like most places) is so-so. Watch for sand spurs. Boatloads of shutdown, parking, etc. Aluminum grandstands on one side, concrete set into the hill on the other side.

>> (I don't think there is another track in the Charlotte area that is even remotely close to being big enough to host an IHRA or NHRA national event).

Darlington. And they want one, I believe. I covered the last Bracket Finals at Darlington, where they hosted over 800 cars.


Michael Beard
<u>Staging Light Graphic Design & Printing</u>
Duck Tape/Loctite Racing
H - I - J/CM '80 Volare 360 Magnum

Could any of this go back to 1988 when Billy Meyer tried to buy NHRA and then tried to bring litigation after NHRA didnt want to deal? Wasnt the pro side of NHRA a for profit business after everything was said and done by Billy Meyer and NHRA in 1988?

What would be interesting would be to see the indivdual bonus management recieved. Non Profits can give out a bonus, Or what was the signing bonus or shares of stock in the new corp. It is within the IRS rules, let us not think this is about money.

J.DeMarzo

its crooked,,,

I wouldn't call it crooked. If they follow what the press releases have said things will improve, but you gotta give it time. This will be at least a 2 year process of getting started on the improvement process. These things cant happen overnight.

Lee Norton
<u>Slowtime Motorsports</u>
I/PS '02 Firebird 231 V6

This does make very interesting reading! All racers should read the whole thing and be informed:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da...68_2ex99d1.htm

Jim Wahl
6 Time National record Holder
2239 BF/S
I miss Buster Couch also! 'cause Div.2 will always be "Buster's Rebels"

Superstockc....Thank you for your kind words to me and the others here. After Lee's 2nd post I sort of figgured he was not as knowledgeable as he would have us believe. I have had my run-ins with NHRA and found them unreasonable at times and have also found them very sympathetic to my concerns at other times. When they were going to abolish FWD classes, they could very well have said "that's it, no ifs ands or buts" but they listened to me and we went back and forth for almost a year. Ultimately we were able to come to an agreement. The new deal with HD Partners could be the begining of a new era in NHRA racing! Only time will tell. No matter what, we have to give them a chance, we really have no other choice. Jim

Jim Wahl
6 Time National record Holder
2239 BF/S
I miss Buster Couch also! 'cause Div.2 will always be "Buster's Rebels"

Ok my thought's take them or leave them ....we need better pay out's We all spend hundrends if not thousand dollars just to get to a race. I went four round's at the Ac delco gatornationals and got $400. and had to be there a week to park ,tech etc........ And friday saturday and sunday the track was sold out with fans at an average cost of 85 a ticket. not to mention four hundred plus car entry fee's and each team averages 3 people at 85 a ticket and they own the track and $400 for all the work. We need to all get together and remove the 250 oil down rule. and get someone in the head office watching out for our intrest.
I know of a divisional track that after payouts, paying NHRA for the evnt and all cost profit was over $200,000 the can increase the pay out but greed will not allow them.