Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Right Randall,

Fred didn't look right when I wrote it, but then I'm old.

Jerry

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

It gets worse.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

lol !

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

What gets worse Ed? LOL
Don't we know it....Living proof here.
It is bad when I can't remember & have to ask my Alzheimer ailing Father ;~)

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I love how NHRA wants to act like they are "supporting" the sportsman racer then place a $1000.00 fine on an honest racer who has made an unintentional mistake that most of us have made, but without a fine. As stated, there should be a "pre warning" or a post of the available fines for such actions. Even then, the argument will be, "why the fines now and not before". .007 is a very small amount and like Mark Lewis stated, could be a number of small things. I talked with Don the day this happened and encouraged him to have them check this with his lifter or check it himself so he could have an argument about "their" system not being fair to the racer (being there could be variances in their lifter and ours) NHRA should be ashamed of themselves for posting this fine on a web sight and not notifying the driver first. He should at least have been told this at the track right after the DQ. And you wonder why your car count keeps decreasing......

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I'm right there with you. LOL

I hope they re-think that fine. It makes no sense at all.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I went back through the race results and can't quite figure out when the DQ happened. Don shows in the qualifying list for Ennis but is gone from the elimination ladder at DragRaceCentral. At what point in the race did the teardown occur?

Dale

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

The fine seems excessive, especially for those who do not have deep pockets and the communication could certainly be better so all can understand the cause/logic and learn from the experience.
NHRA and racers should find and agree to a more structured way to handle such situations and communication.
To this day I always found the NHRA field representatives to be fair and dedicated and I only wish the same could be said about the higher levels of the organization which ultimately call the shots.
MB

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

If NHRA is going to use their adjustable lifter to check lift in tear down, they should list a place to buy the same lifter. Tom

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I'll tell you this back in the mid 90's I gave NHRA a solid lifter for my turbo dodge. They didn't have one. Well about 4 years later I go through teardown with my car. I ask them to give me the lifter so I could set it up for them to roll the cam. And they were indignant telling me only they could handle the lifter (the one I gave them).
BTW. I was running the stock, from the assembly line cam. LOL

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Red Anderson (RIP) made a lot of the tools used in tech.I wonder if it's something he made up?.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

This whole thing made me think of some things. We all know about an optimal stock eliminator motor. That is one with minimal deck height,valve lift that is good by .005-,002,cylinder head chamber volumns within .5cc's, etc. and the catch here is that they pass all lift and cc checks when room temp, but might not when hot. We had a very detailed discussion on push rod length on here a few years back, fun discussion and good thinking by all contributors, but what could hot engine temps do to push rod length, and valve lift as checked? It's not the as-built dimensions that really matter in a tear down situation, it's the as-checked dimensions that turn up when checked. Temperature changes could trip any one of us up. It would be advantageous to build motors with .010" less lift, one half cc chamber volumn to the large side, and all rocker arm ratios in line with specs by .03 or so.How close can you push the limit and come up good at any temperature? Also, if an engine is checked with different measuring tools than the engine builder used,what is the margin of error?Again, the checker's conclusions will trump any engine builder's conclusion. Obviously, when you enter and sign that tech card,you assume any responsibility for any situation that may arise from you racing that day.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Agree with Greg on temps. I see a lot of cars being towed to the teardown barn instead of driven. Keep that engine dead cool.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

From what I am reading here you guys are saying an engine needs to be cold when it goes to teardown.

Does that mean when it is running at its highest operating temperature it is illegal?

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

It could mean that an optimal engine at room temperature could slip into the realm of illegality when operating temperature at the finish line, or after doing a heat soak in the timeslip, fuel test, and scale line,only to slip back into legality after it resumes room temperature. Also, cooling it off makes it nicer to work on. Anybody want to handle a 180 degree cylinder head?

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Realistically the only consistent way to do it is to check a part at close to ambient temperature. That is the temperature the engine was built at. It would be silly to expect engines to be machined and checked at 180 degrees. Jim

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Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Absolutely.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I always carried a solid lifter with my correct plunger height with me and NHRA used it many times with no problem. It would be well worth it for all racers to do the same. As a rule they usually only carry one lifter for each brand make to check with. You can't really expect them to carry 100 different lifters. Bring your own! Jim

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Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Just so evereyone is clear, they did check Don's lift with his lifters in place, we pulled his out because last time I went thru tear down we put in a solid lifter in place of the hydraulic to check lift and I thought they would this time but they did not. NHRA should get off of this fine for sportsman racers or the car count will keep going down, but maybe that is the plan to start with? Seems like something the government would do!

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

In theory maybe. At my local track, they have NO WAY of checking the validity of an NHRA permanent number going through tech. Even if they could, said suspended racer could show up without his NHRA # on the car and no one would be the wiser.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Agreed...nor would they be inclined to pursue it.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Are you saying they checked the lift with the hydraulic lifter in place and it read too big?

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Yes it did,

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

True, however, for any race where any info was relayed to Glendora, it would be caught and the red flag would fly. Jim


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Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Wait, they checked his cam with HIS HYDRAULIC LIFTER? This is an incorrect procedure in anyone's book. The cam will never check correctly. I would be interested to know why the tech guy did it this way. This is grounds for dropping the violation I would think by anyone's standards. NHRA should do the right thing here.

Bleeding the sportsman racer by fining them is wrong! It's tough enough to afford to race for the average racer as it is. Time off is sufficient punishment. I truly hope NHRA will take another look at this new punishment, that as far as I know, has never been published anywhere or car counts will continue to plummet and IHRA's will grow. Jim


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Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I agree with you Jim, are they trying to run off the sportsman racer?

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

They know the sportsmsn racer could not be chased off no matter what.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I partially agree with you Jim. There are those who will continue put up with these types of harassment until they can no longer race. But......The Sportsman car count has plummeted in the last 5 to 6 years. Car counts are half of what they used to be. Two reasons, financial and the BS factor. Jim


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Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

This is actually one of 9 emails I have received in references to the Don Davidson fining. I will not add the name of the writer as I don't have their permission to post it however I think it perfectly sums up the situation.

"Jim,


It's good to see you have keep the Davidson fine issue active.


I don't understand why more people aren't blasting NHRA over this outrage and most don't even seem to understand the issue. You seem to get it, that monetary punishment has no place in sportsman racing. In fact I would argue it has no place in drag racing. NHRA has survived well from it's beginning in the 1950's until recently without fines. The rules infractions were dealt with in a manner that everyone understood and all knew what to expect when there was an infraction.

I don't think most understand how serious this is or where it could lead if it goes unchallenged. Every infraction could carry with it the potential for a fine. Not passing fuel check, under the weight minimum, wheelbase off and of course any and all issues found during tear-down even if it is a mistake by NHRA inspectors. Plus the possibility of the car owner being fined along with the driver if the driver is not the owner to mention a few.

Of all the issues raised by racers with respect to NHRA not once on any forum or in any conversation have I ever read or heard anyone ask for an increase in punishment of any kind for any rules violation. Leaving one to wonder what is the agenda of NHRA by this new use of fines?

Please keep the discussion going so hopefully some may begin to get it."



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Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Just a little more on this that came from a reliable source. All teardown infractions will now cost a fine instead of suspension ( blatant may also get suspension). Reason given is NHRA thinks that most racers would rather pay fine and continue racing (instead of suspension) and NHRA would rather collect entry fees (not to mention fines). If you don't like it, you best start calling NHRA.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

In my opinion, for a minor infraction you should be given an option to pay a fine or suspension. In that situation, if the fine isn't paid the suspension must be served. After the suspension period is over, the racer would be allowed to race again upon inspection.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

That might be the answer to what they are thinking. If a racer gets suspended then he will not be spending money on entry fees for a certain amount of time. If he pays a fine he will get to continue racing and paying entry fees. Sounds like something one of the bean counters would come up with.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Did NHRA talk a poll to see if people would rather pay a fine instead of getting suspended?
If so I missed that one.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Is it possible the cam was cut for stock stamped rockers and he had a true 1.5 roller rocker on it? I don't know. But we ALL should first contact our reps and protest NHRA's blatant attempt to raise revenue, since the car count is not rising etc. I for on am. I have never met this man but I know that mistakes do happen (I mean the non blatant one's). It could have very well happened to me, fail fuel check (pay a fine before you continue), fail weight check (pay a fine before you continue), etc. Lose first rd., pay a buy back and continue on with racing etc.....Ok the last one was a stretch.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

LOL but maybe its not such a stretch. Get tossed out in teardown, pay the fine and race next week. The new Stock/SS buy back.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

I was thinking the same thing! It's a win/win for NHRA. Watch for more and more infractions. Before long each tech guy will have to have a minimum amount of tech infractions like some police departments. It's called "assured income". Jim


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Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

When I got tossed out and fined for some stupid crap that's when this ole boy takes his sack of marbles and goes to the house BYE BYE!

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

times two jeff.the man has allready lost work entry and fuel etc!! He has spent over one thow just to go to that race.

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

Bingo! For what it costs us vs. what we can earn, NHRA should be thankful that we show up! A very smart man once said to me," For what it costs me to be here, I could be on a beach with my wife for a week!".

Re: NHRA Levied Actions Against Don Davidson
 

that sound a lot better Billy.