Re: 2015 Rules
 

Please share with us the time or times your doors were blown off by a new car that you were the fastest older car and you could not have moved to a different class to avoid a new car. I am asking for a specific race.

If you weren't the fastest older car then what does it matter who beat you?

If you could have moved to avoid a new car why didn't you?

And lastly is there no old car that has a softer rating than you? You've been the fastest car forever in your class? Never has a car gotten factored away from your class?

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Dude you are in the wrong place for your no-name, chicken hearted BS. I have had to deal with this crapolla for six years and now it looks like the new cars are where they belong. These new classes simply confirm what many of us said years ago. That is, they had no business in regular Stock and Super Stock Classes.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Bruce,
You are right. When you state your position so eloquently how could I not be swayed.

I'm looking forward to seeing you rack up class win after win, and dominate the many heads up runs you have in the eliminator. Cheers!

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Won class twice this year and have the fastest pass of the year so far by a real A/SA Stocker. And you're full of poop. How's that for eloquence?

Re: 2015 Rules
 

My numbers for the FS Shootout Indexes were lower than NHRA used last year. My numbers for this year are 9.60, 10.0 and for another idea I proposed is FS/N for Nostalgia. 8.25 lbs 11.10 index no ahfs and no runnoff between the classes. FS/N for 72 +/- and older. And Larry, your analization of LV shootout numbers; you know as well as I, there can be no more fickle track that LV. You can't judge that track by anything. And another thing for the Shootouts, only 10 cars can transfer to the A Main (stock eliminator) if all 10 qualify, which at those numbers might be questionable. We can fuss about that all day. We are still fussing about Adam and Eve. I really don't understand the SS Changes. We are moving forward with two new cars for next year in Stock. And Ed, I can run 8.90 with my 360, but I don't, and specs are important, but performance dictates the things we are talking about. And as far as thrashing, I been thrashing on Mopars since 1968. However I am a slow learner. Maybe that's it.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

I've been a victim of a heads-up race with a newer car that was basically a "drive-by" shooting. I'll tell you, it's no fun and how can someone boast that they won a race when they have a totally bogus HP rating. I actually like the Drag-Paks, CJ's and COPOS, but they don't belong in Stock Eliminator. They belong in SS. I'm just glad that at least, they're in their own classes now. Hey, I even use my real name 'cause I've got a "sack".

Re: 2015 Rules
 

It's 12 new classes, but they're removing AAA, AA, BB auto and stick, so it's only 6 more than before.


Definitely more than 20 with how many more COPOs have been coming out. There were a bunch at the Indy Fall Classic I'd never seen before. There were quite a few people who jumped into CC (well AA back then, and back to AA now) when it was created, but they jumped back down when the supercharged Mustangs were running it, and quite a few new fast combinations have been through there. I'd expect a lot more old cars in AA now.


I don't see how this changes new cars options. There are still all of the same engine combinations for them to run, and if someone wants to build one just to pick on the old cars, I personally don't care if they don't show up. If a guy wants to build a new car to showcase the new technology coming out of the parts catalogs, he still can.

As far as A, B, E, and G stick at Indy. I watched the A car blow the tires off in 1st gear and still run 9.60s at the Fall Classic, and he went 1.14 under at Indy. Indy was the very first race for the B car, and it went .11 faster on its best run than the old car and was down 10 mph. I don't really think you can consider the E/S final a race. There were 3 old cars in G/S this year.

In order for the AHFS to work, somebody has to actually run one out. If you think the AHFS does work, look at the 5.7 Hemi stick rating and the class final in E/S at Indy.

So the majority of contingency money is from aftermarket parts suppliers who do not know or care what type of car you're using their part on. The OEMs have stepped up lately and added some good contingency money in for the new cars, but I have no problem with that when they spend so much money on those cars. I don't see a situation other than that where contingency could be posted only for new cars.

This is absolutely, without question, a win for the class. You will see quite a few old cars come back out when they do not have to worry about losing heads up to a new, under factored, car.

I do not have to run new cars heads up, in class or eliminations. I have raced against new cars, and I've won and lost. However, going to Indy to get my *** kicked by a 352 Mustang or 5.9 Challenger does not sound enticing to me. I will be at Indy this year. Yes, it does not address the low horsepower ratings, but we also do not have the indexes yet, so we will have to wait and see.

This is a major step in the right direction, and you will see more cars at the racetrack because of it.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Jeff, I only have about six years experience on you.

Specs mean everything. If you admit you can run 8.90s, that only illustrates how bogus your 360"' engine's hp rating actually is.

When I talk about a car that has been thrashed, you know I'm talking about a car, not a brand of cars. The LT1 combo you talk about has been thrashed longer than the Drag Paks have been in production. You know that.

How is this new deal going to hurt you personally? Or your racing? You just may not be the fast guy in class any longer? Might have to go to work to try to be faster than the other DPs, CJs or COPOs in your class? Same as the rest of us always have?

At least you use your real name. :-)

Re: 2015 Rules
 

someone may get slapped at the back door

Re: 2015 Rules
 

That's eloquent in my book; give 'em hell Bruce!

Re: 2015 Rules
 

The new cars are the devil......! LOL

I was ecstatic that they allow head studs!

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Ed, the 360 appeared in 71 I think. Then about 76.348 revisions with heads, pistons, manifolds, and god knows what else mostly for emissions, then the lifters were changed to rollers mid 80, then on and on then the magnum with efi cause it absolutely won't pass emissions, then the DP motor. And lot's in between. It ain't new by any means. It's still the same basic lower motor from 71 with knock off Edlebrock heads and a single plane manifold (in stock). Super Stock of course is a little different. To give you an idea, the pistons are 100 grams heavier than a 360 Magnum truck motor. Now for the Chevies, when you need something you can go to Wal Mart, CVS, Target, Cosco and get ready to race heads, and any other part you need at reduced prices and available at midnight. With all the research and devleopment and parts availablity, your car should go 8.90's and you should be kickin the DP's tail (tale). You need to work on that thing. And what is the wheelbase on your car? 90 inches. These DP's are so long they are articulated in the middle. Did yall know emissions actually started with the 68 model cars. It didn't come back around till EFI and total engine and car management. Just you history lesson for today. Test next Friday.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

On the Factory Showdown cars a .6 second reduction would be a real number on the indexes. I did go back and look at Indy, Maple Grove, and Gainesville , most of the cars in the finals were about 1.50 to 1.60 under. A .6 second reduction will bring the under number to close to 1.00 second under the index. The cars that can run 1.00 + under at Indy are all good cars.

Every once in a while some odd combo comes out and runs a little further under, but not that often.

The indexes of the new FS class cars will say a lot!

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Lmao!
Next Friday? I had better study.

Larry, I don't see any way they will put the indexes where they belong. They are too indebted to the auto mfgrs, their race sponsors.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

it will be interesting to see how they do the stick vs automatic deal in these new classes for sure, bet you will be seeing more sticks in these cars

Re: 2015 Rules
 

I am sure they will have the same effect as the changes 12 years ago did to pickup trucks. Haven't seen a new race truck since. Newest is a 97 model. Probably have the same effect. I'm sure a lot of new 69 Camaro's will appear. I know multiple people have complained that they won't race because of the new cars, so 200 or so returning racers should be ready for next year. Anybody got a better number? Maybe 400? The numbers of the new cars will go down, and the old cars will go through the roof. They had some old truck ran 2.42 under at Indy. That thing needs a 2 second hit for the truck shootout, but wait, almost all the trucks went home. But I got a new method. When you pull in the gate and pass tech, you get a Wally. Then the fuel check, scale, tech folks are off for the rest of the weekend. You only have to state your class when you tech. After that, it's a bracket race even for identical vehicles. Everyone wins. No more haveing to race for Class. You win and get a wally. Nobody is paying anyway. Ken will quit Class Racer because it's boring. Paring will be with a deck of cards. It don't matter who wins the race anyway, you already got your Wally. Maybe just get your Wally and go home, or even better just pay the$310 entry and they will mail your Wally. Save the fuel cost. Ed won't have to thrash any more, Bruce will be happy all the time, Larry Hill won't have to analize the times and classes and won't have to spend time getting his hp reduced while the rest of us squak so he can run to the front. But wait; there is no front. Hummmmmm I got to work on that one. I know. Best reaction is the ladder. Now we got it. What is the next thing we need to solve?

Re: 2015 Rules
 

What is bothers you personally about this Jeff? No longer being the fast guy in SS/KA ?

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Only if its approved by NHRA!

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Not intended to hi-jack the thread but there are a lot of eyes in here,

Question....the blueprint specs call for a cylinder head combustion chamber size of 66cc yet the approved factory replacement heads have a chamber of 62.8.....since you can't "grind" on the chambers what is one to do?

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Are you talking about a stocker head? If you think stocker heads aren't being ported I have some ocean front property by my central Texas home ill sell real cheap lol......

Re: 2015 Rules
 

yes, I am.....but I am talking about the combustion chamber that everybody can see and measure but the NHRA has given conflicting information

I can easily make my 62 heads 66 and nobody would ever know...except the folks that read this post, but I would like to keep them where they are and point out that that acceptable casting numbers that is listed in the specs comes in at 62 cc's

Re: 2015 Rules
 

I have seen some replacement heads that have a different chamber. I thought NHRA specified this in the allowable somewhere. That is a conflict. That would be a good question for SRAC with specific examples. I think that is addressed, but I don't know just where. Gee, just when I thought I knew everything, I get this curve. I feel like Kansas City.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

RE: aluminum radiators, IHRA's allowed them for a long time. Common sense.

RE: Factory classes: We established "FX" classes at the Northern Class Nationals from the beginning. I welcome NHRA's new class structures, and we will utilize these at next year's event. Class Eliminations with no AHFS will be a great show!


They did me a favor (not just because I make full-color printed decals, either!) :p I've never been a threat to the other cars in my class, but rather the other way around, since I have very little budget. I'll basically have my own class now, and don't have to worry about heads-up runs, since I rarely if ever see Jeff or Jamie. Also due to the GT separation of FWD and RWD combos, the only people that can really get my HP hit would be Bardekoff or Stancil's car, but the rest of us are holding the average down. Without the fast traditional cars in the class to push people, it's going to take a lot more new cars in order to push each other to get them factored where they belong.

They really ought to tag the Factory indexes, quite a lot honestly. I'd be surprised if they hit 'em with a superficial -.10 on the indexes due to the politics involved, though.


I see zero reason for any new car to quit, nor for any new car being built to be shelved, even if they announced that the Factory indexes would be lowered -.30 (which they won't, anyway).

Re: 2015 Rules
 

The one thing I'm going to miss about the new cars in my class is making them run hard enough to get instant hp on Monday. Course I sold my car, but we still have Andrew's.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Greg, your run was the best run of all the older vs new cars.

Jeff, just like the rest of us, you knew this day would be coming.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Yea these new rules are really going to help stk and SS grow. I can't wait to see all the old times come back out to race. You know the guys that bi$ch about NHRA, new cars and everything else. I bet will see 200 new stk and SS racers come out in 2015. Ha ha

NHRA just kill stock elimantor and do us all a favor and just do away with the class. Then the 25 guys that bi$ch about every little thing can really be happy.

I do find it funny that Larry hill has the balls to bi$ch about under factored indexes and new cars. When he himself went-2.25 under at the big go this year. That just goes to show you some people will bi$ch about anything.

Good luck to all.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

How is it going to hurt you Charlie?

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Ed it doesn't hurt me. But how is this rule / new classes going to grow stk and SS? This is the real problem we are facing. Making a rule to please 20 to 30 old farts that race 2-3 times a year makes no sense to me. In the past five years the only new blood we have had is new drivers in 2008 and newer cars. If anything stock should up the year to 1979 and newer cars then all the cry baby's can have something to cry about. I have never seen a sport protect old technology like this.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Charlie,
The old farts that you are bitching, complaining and crybabying about built this sport. You are a Johnny-come-lately compared to the old farts. And we aren't going away anytime soon. So get used to it.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Im a newbie to Stock, and my car will most likely never see -.8 under , or better...and I'll probably never ever try to qualify at Indy, even though i live 45 mins from the place. That being said, Its not about protecting old technology, its about cars running about 2 or 3 classes lower, than it should. Its not apples to apples. And this letting off at 1000'? Wth is that? Be real men, run the dang thing out, and face the consequences...These guys already know that their HP ratings are BS... :confused:
Stockers shouldnt make 900hp.... Just my opinion...hehe

As far as protecting old cars goes, It still seems to me that the % of Stockers are mostly the older cars , so why stick it to those guys?( me being included)

Re: 2015 Rules
 

I would be happy about all of the new classes if I were Jason McCormack, or John Calvert, and any other traditional cars in A-F stick and auto classes in stock. Now, once NHRA gets to indexes, I hope they will:

A. Give all of the current/traditional class indexes their three tenths of a second back, as that would make it better for the older cars running against the newer cars in qualifying too.

B. Return the altitude correction factors to what they were (for Stock and Super Stock), instead of the .90 class factors.

I would prefer both, and based on how Indy was this year, I don't think I should be alone in this thought, because with the AHFS out there, any runs that are 1.25 under the index would trigger the hp factor change anyway. My .02 worth.

HAPPY HALLOWEEN ALL!!!! :)

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Charlie that is about one of the dumbest things I have ever read on here . Who are you to*pick on "old farts" and why should it matter to you how much someone races? I am 44 years old been racing for almost 30 years technically I'm one of those old farts. I drive a 1964 Hemi belvedere and would never own a 2008 or newer car. So what your saying is screw James Vignogna his car is old tech so he is out? Give me a break!!!!! I would give both nuts a lung and half my brain to have my " old fart" father alive today to drive his Hemi car again, have some friggin respect. And by the way I have young guys in there twenties building old fart cars.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

So guys like me and say Bill Zaskowski should sell our outdated 66 Chevy II's because were old news?

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Where's the popcorn :D

Isn't it funny how the tides have changed. The guys that bought these new cars with soft hp ratings that didn't have to give it any effort to win class anytime they wanted because they had the class covered by .5 now all of a sudden have their panties in a bunch.

I'm 37 years old Charlie Bob and I'm bringing out an 45 year "old technology" car, and since I don't Mr. Hill in my corner to lobby for a hp reduction, it would be lucky to fall out of a tree and run -1.00 under the C or D stick index. There is no way I could come close to competing with any of the new cars that fit in my classes. You new car guys seem pretty pissed off that now you have to show your hand and work on your junk in order to win against the same under factored cars that's been easily dominating for the last 6 years. Karma... I believe is what they call it.

Don't get me wrong I like all the new cars (CJ more so than the others :)) but these cars never belonged in Stock to begin with. I believe NHRA got it right. I just hope the indexes follow suit. I actually ordered a 2012 Competition Kit Cobra Jet and canceled my order because after thinking long and hard about it I wanted to earn my peers respect and I wanted the challenge of making a 45 year old combo competitive.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Don't worry boys I will always be around the top of the qualifying sheet because I know how to change with the times unlike the rest of you.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

There is some old stuff (with new tech) coming to a track near you. just hold tite:D

Re: 2015 Rules
 

You may be hanging around the top of the sheet for awhile longer but all of us know it will be because you are spending another "Old Fart's" money. The oems and nhra have run this sham many times over the years. The oems may continue to splash around some marketing talk but they are mostly over this nonsense. Enjoy the ride back to obscurity.

Re: 2015 Rules
 

I guess Ed Wright and I are OK in Charlie's world,we're old farts with newer F.I. cars. So it's allright for us to run in his eliminator. the underfactored new cars have to beat up on somebody. Get real!

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Charlie I know its Halloween, but please don't allow the sugar to affect your condition. Remember you came to race! Yes I have all of the standard equipment and usually they don't make any noise, but some times they will "clang". I just spoke about the indexes in Factory Showdown and wondered what the new FS classes index would be.

Good luck at the race!

Re: 2015 Rules
 

Ya know, take away his trash talk and b##lbusting and Charliebob does have a good point. IMHO we really don't need any more new classes. It's just watering down the gene pool some more. NHRA reacted exactly the way that NHRA always reacts when they create a problem. Instead of admitting to creating a problem and fixing it, they just create another entirely different problem. They should have just taken a step back from the AHFS and fixed all of their factoring mistakes (old and new) in one shot. As it stands now, we are going to wind up with a "segregated" eliminator just like when we had all of the FI classes. The difference being, with the FI classes, when the factors got in line(relatively) they were brought back into the regular classes. That will not be as easily done with these new classes as they are combining sticks and autos and (I'm guessing) changing the indexes.
And maybe I should just keep my opinions to myself seeing as, of all the cars I own, none of them runs higher than P. Oh yeah, there are still some of those factoring mistakes bouncing around that can kick the snot out of my stuff.