Re: Horsepowers
 

I think you're probably right. Just another example of the gross mis-management that is NHRA, today.

Re: Horsepowers
 

Can anyone explain or define our so- called mineshaft conditions and the rules for it to come into play.

Re: Horsepowers
 

with or without F/X cars?

Re: Horsepowers
 

In my experience - NHRA has never replied to receiving or granting Horsepower requests. The first year I requested reduction I waited for the Dec. list and - Nothing? No indication! When I called to check they said it must have been lost? Resubmit for next year. I did and in July again - Nothing. After calling again I received a call from Wesley - and he said they screwed up. He said they would look into it and 2 hours later returned my call and discussed my combination and gave me 15 HP off.
He was very helpful but I understand he no longer has that position?

Re: Horsepowers
 

Larry. Basing it on a normal division race and a standard national event.
If your question was replied to my question?

Re: Horsepowers
 

i sent a request in this year by email and Pat sent me a confirmation email that they received it.

Re: Horsepowers
 

Jim, the simple answer is

Must have at least 32 car field

Split the field in two (example 32 divided by 2 equals 16) 17th qualifier has to be .85 under

First car in the second half has to be .85 under after final qualifying run

Hope this helps

Re: Horsepowers
 

Ya I get that part thanks.
Guess my point is here you could take those 17 cars for example that have run .750 under at there best forever!!! Those 17 cars go into day 2 of qualifying with Mother Nature cooperating at her best an suddenly they all run .850 at there best they ever have. And the bottom line is they get penalized right?

Or in NHRAs eyes they all should have dumped at a 1000'. THE RULE NEEDS TO BE TOSSED OUT PERIOD!!!

Re: Horsepowers
 

Jim,

If the weather conditions improve and still qualifying the .85 under hurts nobody unless you go 1.20 under for instant hit.

The real problem is most racers play the ladder game, therefore the system is flawed.

The big problem occurs when the conditions improve after final qualifying and you have a very fast car and trigger your combination ( you know the famous saying I didn't think I would go that fast)

Re: Horsepowers
 

Correct. Sorry I didn't clarify that right. I was meaning running faster than the .850 under factor.

Re: Horsepowers
 

It's all BS, if they are not smart enough to check the weather conditions and know what is "Mineshaft" conditions should they really be smart enough to be adjusting these horsepower?
Take the first race at Charlotte, we got 1 qualifying run at 300 DA and half the field didn't run the .85 under. Just about every car there could've but you all know how it works. I hit the trigger and got myself an early Christmas present in July.
Then you go to Indy in 3500' plus and it's mineshaft, give me a break!!!

Re: Horsepowers
 

This thing really has to be addressed ASAP. I know there are multiple tracks across the country that can be fast at certain times. For example here in the northwest we have firebird raceway in Boise, Idaho, a lot of people think that track has bogus factors, witch it may in some cases. We go there the air good for there you get a small tail wind an your off, well once again is that considered mineshaft? Then you run the next pair of ten with a headwind in the same session. Now what?

Re: Horsepowers
 

Yes it is a BS.... I remember in 2002 when I got into stock an superstock thought it was the coolest thing ever. Performance based class... Hmmm where the hell did that go? Not trying to make myself look innocent for any of my doings, but I've never been stupid to make crazy runs just to do it. As I've said in some prior post it is nice to see hard work and perseverance pays off. I see looking back at the weather conditions where I ran good were a mineshaft conditions.
But that doesn't matter when everyone else makes a pass behind you with there tail between there legs.

Oh well we move on to 2016 with some statements to make.

Re: Horsepowers
 

Just wait till this Duster rolls out of this shop. Then I can play with the big boys[/QUOTE]

Awesome my combo is going to get hit and it isn't even out yet. And I thought all the Mopar guys were an intelligent bunch. I are smart.

Re: Horsepowers
 

I guess your implying I'm non intelligent person.... My intelligence will speak for its self. FYI.... You might want to rethink that combo.

Re: Horsepowers
 

Don't you worry. I have you to thank and I will or will you thank me?

Re: Horsepowers
 

I sent mine in the Thursday after the World Finals and Pat promptly returned my e-mail stating I had missed the deadline by 2 days. :(
That was a lesson learned for me.

Re: Horsepowers
 

.85 is the figure for average, two times 1.00 is what gets trouble if the average is more than .849 under up to 1.19.

Re: Horsepowers
 

All the data the NHRA needs is right at their fingertips. Always has been, always will be. They have the variable in temperature, wind, altitude, pressure, etc. But they also have all the incremental times. Those little increments tell the story of what happened during the run. They can be easily deciphered. And you all thought that letting off was hiding something.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA .....................

Re: Horsepowers
 

Mineshaft is only about final order. S/S could be mineshaft at a race and Stock not be mineshaft at the same race. Weather has nothing to do with it. As we found out at Indy 3500' can be mineshaft if the right mix of cars are entered.


Indy was 150 cars trying to fill 98 spots, that's why Indy is always show and tell. "Ain't nothing like it" he said with a smile. The math looks wrong until the F/X cars are inserted, after the F/X cars are inserted in the field, all of us in the eliminator need a big kiss.


F/X cars and mineshaft.
70 cars in qualified field, 20 F/X cars in field of 70. The F/X cars are subtracted from the field 70 leaving 50 cars. If the number 26 car of the field of 50 is .85 under or quicker = mineshaft.


FS_ cars and F/X cars are not the same. AHFS does not apply to F/X cars. That's why we need a kiss.

Re: Horsepowers
 

This was my first year racing in ss. The first thing I don't understand is the fact that you have to beg for anything. Automatic factoring ? Why can't the NHRA mystery computer give hp back at the end of a year? They can doll it out, I would think if there is a combo out there RUNNING that the computer could then give some back. Just thinking out loud. I never went 850 under so it doesn't matter. Just a thought. I should have begged for some since I can't run 1 under or in some cases 1.30 or faster under like some run & nothing happens when they fender you. Great racing there....

Re: Horsepowers
 

It does if you qualify.

Re: Horsepowers
 

Tommy, why would you need horsepower off your combination? Wasn't there an identical combination as yours that could have run a 1.15 under et in the class final of SS/JA? If he can do it, doesn't that give you the indication that the potential of your combination is very good?

Re: Horsepowers
 

He does not have the same combo I have. He has a Holley carb, I have a avs. Should I change carbs & follow suit? Or stick on my own & work on what I have? I am surprised that you would bring this up though.VIOLATOR! Lol

Re: Horsepowers
 

Ok, well that must be one hell of a Holley! Lol

Re: Horsepowers
 

That's my point. It is almost 100cfm more. Why am I factored the same? It's a different combo. That would be like factoring the lt1 & l98 and all the fi 350 combos together right? I don't see where this an even playing field. I'm not mad at anyone, I don't want it taken the wrong way. That's why I ask questions. IF the NHRA took incremental times into consideration and actually looked at the data they have it would help I think to straighten out the problems with the factoring system.

Re: Horsepowers
 

Tommy, you're factored the same because at one time or another, someone with your combo was fast. I'm not saying it's a level playing field, but the rules are set, and meant to be manipulated within the current written state.

Re: Horsepowers
 

Hi Tommy, you're right on with your numbers. The 383 AVS I have flows right at 635 cfm and the 383 Holley 6191 I have is 724 cfm both done on my bench.

Re: Horsepowers
 

If there are both factored the same, why would you not run the Holley?

Re: Horsepowers
 

Inquiring minds want to know.😊

Re: Horsepowers
 

That's what I have, I don't have a Holley. I guess I need to build one this winter. My point was about why they are factored the same when there is a difference in cfm. That would be like having a lt1 & l98 factored the same correct? I'm a noob, I'm still learning lol.

Re: Horsepowers
 

The LT-1 and L-98 are virtually the same hp rating.


LT-1 is 279
L-98 is 270 Dish/flat top 275

Re: Horsepowers
 

Ok Sean the lt1 @ 279
L 98 @ 270
9hp
That's 99lbs off of my car at 11.0lbs per hp
Just sayin.
I hope that no one is being offended by this, I am just trying to wrap my head around a virtually the same combo being 99 lbs different. I am just using the 350 combo to make a point about factoring combos. I understand Jim storms deal with a body change, he runs his car out and takes the hit. I guess he should start 1000' racing to protect everyone running that combo and never show the potential. Rant over lol see you next season, I missed Christmas asking Santa Claus to give me some power off.....

Re: Horsepowers
 

It gets even more out of whack....

LT1 in Corvette, Camaro or Firebird 279hp
LT1 in GT rear wheel drive 295hp
LT1 in GT front wheel drive 299hp

Re: Horsepowers
 

Tommy, no offense meant, but why would you put it together with the wrong carb?

Re: Horsepowers
 

I was working on the combo I had. How is it the wrong carb? It has its own combo. I read on here where everyone says to work on your combo more all the time. That's what I did. I got faster, I'm not offended at all Ed , I'm happy with the results I had this year. I know I'm not the fastest, & I'm fine with that. The reason I posted anything on here was my questions about the factoring system of why I am grouped with the Holley & the weight difference in hp compared to similar combos like the Chevy.

Re: Horsepowers
 

If the two carbs are rated the same HP, you have the AVS, but the Holley flows 100 CFM more, you used the wrong carb. Should have used the Holley. Right?

Re: Horsepowers
 

Yup, there is allways next year Ed,

Re: Horsepowers
 

Should be a big boost.

Re: Horsepowers
 

When a combination has so much horsepower added that almost everyone has stopped running that combination, why is nhra so reluctant to reduce said hp?