Re: What about STOCK ?
 

Clutchman;
I just reread some of these post. I think I know who you are now.

I want to clarify a few things.

1) Buttons do make SOME drivers better.
2) If buttons are not an advantage then why have them????????????
3) The cream will rise to the top and the same racers will still win a lot of races if buttons are taken away.
4) It will level the playing field though.
5) Ed Obrien is an idiot.


I race with a button and Footbrake.
I've won in nearly everything I've set in. Big Buck Races, Stockers, Dragsters, Door Cars, Track Championships, Division Championships, Big Buck Series Championships, Bracket Finals. Unlike Ed Obrien and most of these internet Heroes I do race.
BOTTOM LINE there are classes for buttons if you want them and I would like to see buttons out of stock. That is my opinion.
Chip

P.S.

I know a well know Stock racer that came to a Footbrake only race a few years ago on the way to the 20K footbrake race at Piedmont. After getting his butt handed too him for 2 days of FOOTBRAKING he decided he could'nt do this without a button and took his ball and went home. TRUE STORY.

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

Clutch,
I think we look at this the same way just with different opinions, if that makes sense. Zane is a prime example. He can win either way. Lots of other bottom bulbers can too.

Chip

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

Some of the guys that don't want a two step for an automatic, also want to have no heads ups durring eleminations because it isn't "FAIR FOR THE GUY WHO DOSEN'T HAVE THE MONEY TO SPEND ON HIS CAR THE MAKE IT RUN WELL". These guys also want to run crate motor classes in Nhra as well. To me it seems that SOME of the guys all want to turn this into PRO or HEAVY ET and really don't have the spirt that the die hard Stocker or Superstocker racer in NHRA has had for the last 50 years. I can't comment on IHRA because I have never raced it. But to all the guys that are trying to come into our sport and change it into Pro ET and other bracket classes. READ THE RULE BOOK BEFORE YOU COME AND PARTICIPATE, IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT THE RULES ARE, FIND A NEW CLASS!!!!!!!!! Don't try to change this one. I agree with clutch man. Leave the rules ALONE AND LETS RACE.

Todd Hoven
1035 Stk

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

You can react faster leaving off a button with your hand than simultaneously lifting your left foot and hitting the gas with your right. In stock you should not be able to leave by letting go of a button with your hand. Futhermore, these adjustable buttons are simply delay devices. If you want a two step for rpm control at the starting line put the button on your brake pedal. Think about it, stick cars have to let the clutch out to leave. Automatic cars that have two steps and hand activated buttons leave when you let go of the button. Your left foot will come off the brake pedal. There is no reason or rationale for having hand activated two step swithes for automatic cars other than to help your reaction time . By the way if any of you don't think you can have a delay box without a trans brake you're crazy. Just ask Ron Muncy.

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

clutchman,,,,you shouldnt have to post a "racing resume" to have an opinion on what direction the class is taking......whether you win a few championships or are a first round donator every event shouldnt make a difference,,,,,,stock needs not to be perverted anymore than it already has....maybe its too late,,who knows


.I had to take couple of years off from the traveling for personal reasons,,,,but plans are underway for a late season stocker

no,,you dont need a transbrake for a delay box to be used at all,,,,but
my concern is not about cheating in the class,,,if I thought for one minute that anyone I had ran, had been using a delay or track counter,,,they would have been looked at,,,,,,,,I myself dont care to protest

My opinion is based on parity in the class,,,,,,fast cars have an overwhelming advantage in stocker racing when the deepstaging got pulled and then fast car got 2 steps and buttons,,,,,,,,,,the bracket racing portion of the class was designed to give any car the same chance to win,,,,(per rules),,,,,,,, 2 steps/button used correctly, are as deadly as any delay box........

Im a slow car person,,,,always have been,,,always will be.......I dont even like to go fast!!!,,,,,,,not that I dont think its killer to watch a SS/A stick car leave the line and know that it takes alot of skill to win in one,,,,,it just the Bracket portion was designed to give the W/SA the same chance ( again per rules) as the AA/S car...rite now,,,unless your a race God, with the starting line advantages of a faster car using the 2 step/button correctly,,,it takes a miracle for one to win a round,,,much less a race,.........

dragracecentral.com is a wonderfull research tool.....if you dont believe me on how much of an impact the 2 steps/buttons has made on stock,,,,,,do a little research on just how much RT`s have improved in the last 2 or 3 years,,,,,,,,,,,,basically, the same bunch has been racing for the last ten years but RT`s have vastly improved in the last 2,,,,,,,,,all the name calling in the world dont change the facts,,,,,,facts are facts,,,,

I personally dont see anything changing,,,,,take it from me first hand,,,,no one wants to see a slow car on the cover of their magazine,,,but thats OK,,,....

there are alot of racers feel the way I do,,,,they just dont speak up,,,they need to while there is still a stock,,,,,the more closely stock looks like superstock,,,,the more of a chance they will combine the classes in the future,,,,,it wouldnt surprise me in the near future for stock and superstock to be combined at nationals...it makes alot of sense to do so instead of eliminating a whole class at nationals,,,just combine them,,,,then the question????? who gets in and who dont??? you can bet it wont be a guy in a W/SA pinto,,,,,,

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

Todd,
Don't start slinging mudd.
We like heads up,No buybacks, Qualifying, Sitting 3 days to make 1 run, teardowns and everything else associated with Class racing. I spent over a 100 grand Class racing from 2002 to last year. I sold everyting and went back bracket racing. I have recently spent another 30K to build a G/SA car. Why because I'm an idiot and I missed everything that class racing stands for.
I just don't like buttons for stockers.


Chip Johnson

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

Eddie "HASKELL" Obrein,
I'm sure that day will come. I'm also my attitude will not change much.
Chip

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

Chip,
Believe me you have nothing to worry about unless Ed manages to sit on you! I met tough talking Ed O'Cryin at the SportsNats and all he could do was whine about how I got him horsepower and how he was going to pay me back. He also has first hand knowledge about cheating. He can't seem to remember what the HP or weight the cars are that he runs and techs them in on what you could call the "low" side. Remind me when I see you and I'll show you a copy of his tech sheet from the Cajun SportsNats. Jim

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

Ed, you ever used a 2 step in your car...Hook a delay box up to it and let me know how it works! Unless you have a 4 wheel line loc, it would be hard...You must hold the brakes down in order to use a two step in a stocker! Let go of the button and you have to think about your foot on the brake! Your looking to far in to it...I was goin to take a brake from this topic, but you always bring me back!

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

Now that's funny coming from you seeing how you were all over this board a couple years ago bad mouthing Lee Zane yet kept your mouth shut when the two of you were face to face that very same season.

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

stockracer,,,using a 2 step with a single line lock works great,,did it for years and won loads of cash, even had to use a line lock in a rear engine car one nite when the trans brake went out and got lucky and won in s/pro,,,matter of fact used the same method on an altered,,,and won with it ,,,,it only has one issue,, but thats another story

again,,this isnt about cheating or hidden items....most every topic on this board always comes full circle to the Fletchers,,,Biondo`s or winner of the week,,,cheating,,,,,,,,,I would personally be very disappointed if anything illegal was ever found on those cars,,,,,those guys are good and I think have the respect of 99% of all class racers and probably 100% of all bracket racers

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

Apparantly there is some misunderstanding how two steps are being used in Stock. Ed O'brien hints on it but doesn't explain totally. Racer X stages his or her automatic Stocker as any traditional respectful racer would, left foot on brake right foot on gas pedal but with the exception of holding finger or thumb on their button. At some point right foot goes to the floor and engine rpm's rise to a set rpm.Which will not overcome the brake pressure. Then racer X releases the button, rpm is no longer controlled and racecar launches. Without moving left foot off brake pedal. Absolutely No different than a transbrake. So any delay device that works on a transbrake can be put between the button and the twostep signal wire. I know Ed has been saying this for two years people just have not paid attention. Louis Jeffery 3225 Stock

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

Ed, unfortunatlly by the time I got my "proof" it was too late for any action to be taken. Not only that but NHRA could care less about the FWD cars, you know that. You got away with it that time. However I do have the proof and I don't hesitate to show anyone who wants to see it. The powers that be are aware of the incident, and know the truth. That is all I care about. What ever they do is up to them, that's not my job. You are a cheater, that has been proven. You will continue to cheat I'm sure, and when you are caught red handed I will just smile and say "have a nice day Ed". Until then you remain a sad, pesky, poor excuse for a human being, and that is something everyone here does know. Have a great day. Jim

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

Oh Ed! Is that the best you can do? My Spirit has been torn down 4 times in the 3 years I have owned it and at least that many when Artie owned it in Div.1. How many times has Mike's Lebaron been taken apart? You got questions Ed? Jim Collins and Brian Bachelder have the answers. Give them a call. We will meet again some time. Bring gaskets! Jim

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

ed,,what your saying could be done,,but why would you do that??? Dont know if most if you here have ever used a delay,,but about the only way to be consistent is ,, hit the top lite as hard as possible,,,,,Dont know if alot of you know this,,,but alot of tracks have cameras that point directly into the car near the tree,,,or at least brutons tracks do,,,,,at Bristol,,,you can read the guys shirt and watch him pick his nose in the tower,,,,(Ive seen that),,,,,,,,,,,,

so if what your saying is true,,,,you would have one hand on the fake button,,,,the other one on a real button and litely holding the brake,,,,,,doing all this while gently releasing the button,,,,so tech or tower couldnt see and then just before car leaves release fake button,,so it looks real------ED thats BS ,,,,,,,,


the way the 2step/button is used is,,,,racers are buildiing items to look thru to block everything on the tree so all they see is the bottom yellow,,,,,,,,after both cars are staged,,,they move their head or look thru this item,,,all they see is the bottom yellow,,,,,when they see it,,they go,,,,,,,,depending on what their reaction is,,,,,they adjust their 2 step or button OR 2 step and button to set up for a .015 or better,,,,,,,,,,,,,now it works perfect,,,,,,,,,,,it works perfect BUT you need a quick reacting car to do it,,,,,

we got a guy, at our local track,,,,(dont want to mention names) that does this without 2 steps and buttons and his getting pretty good at it,,,,only thing bothers him is nite time reflection,,,,,,,one of the cars his does this in is a 11.00 (1/8) suburban,,,,,he has it set up to leave on the second flash,,he is always .020 or better,,,every pass,,,,,

now you can still use this method without the 2step/button,,but it is alot harder do get everything set,,and their isnt as much adjustability on the footbrake

my fuss is,,this option isnt available to a slower car,,,just wont get out of the lites quick enough and thru some testing of my own,,,,car needs to 60 ft at least 2.40 or slower to use this option leaving on the second amber,,,,,,,,,,

a freind of mine has a slow stocker and Ive been trying to get him to try blocking on the second amber,,,,,Im sure it would work BUT he would have to leave in second gear to do it and he is dead set against the electronic help of the 2 steps and buttons in the car,,,,,,,any of you that are reading this and have slow cars should try this blockng method out of second gear,,,,Im sure with some testing ,,it would work

Re: What about STOCK ?
 

Yes, That is how we run a F/SA car. Very consistant 60 ft. 1.43 - 1.44. We obviously Do release the left foot as the car launches but the initial reaction is button only.