Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

I'm afraid I will have to invoke the Chuck Rayburn Rules of Discussion. Rule No. 1, If you have no car, you have no vote. Rule No. 2, If the discussion is about a specific car or combo, and you don't race that car or combo, you got no vote.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

amc's are 65# BUT you still have to put something back on, i'll get ya weight on an R4B tomorrow;) my guess is it's about 20-25lbs...no, I don't have a dog in this fight as i'm running in a stick shift bracket deal ...

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

We have run both back to back in the 90's........No difference in performance
or ET (Weight equalized) at all.

We do run a couple of the cars currently and mine usually has front weight
because I do not like the huge wheel up launches that the my boys enjoy!

Legal or not..... We do not care!

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

If I've got to race against that specific car or combo and I've got to qualify against that car or combo, you had better believe I got a vote!

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Just another douche trying to make a dollar! That intake is worth only half that! Another guy watching too many auctions and tv resto shows.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

I agree 100%

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

If this intake isn't worth any et. or mph why did someone bother to have it put in the guide ? Seems fishy to me. Rick.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Maybe... after its hogged out it an be made to look like stock again easier.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Agreed. I don't pretend to be an expert on this intake manifold, but what's the point in going through the hassle of getting it approved if there's no advantage?

There's already a lot of very fast 340 cars out there.

Obviously stock has gotten out of hand with all of the aftermarket stuff that's been allowed on many combos (all makes, this isn't a Chevy vs Ford vs Chrysler thing), but in my opinion, there's already some really good competition between cars of all makes in the classes this affects.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Alright...Taking the Nees option on comments.
I was waiting for someone to go there.
We're all big boys here.
Easier to cut apart with a bandsaw..
Easier to weld back together and hide the welds.
But then...someone out there already knows this...

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Mark, it has been done many times on both aluminum and cast iron intakes. As a matter of fact, it is easier to find out if an aluminum intake has been cut and welded than a cast iron intake if you know how to inspect it and what to look for.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Check !

I just said it may be easier.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Anyone own a foundry? Maybe we should just cast our own heads, blocks and intakes?

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

If there is any logic in this,
Yea, Why not allow the Z-28 cross ram and the 1967 L-88 427??
Has Jeff Lee been doing Copy and paste on this like was done on the AMC's? Maybe someone will get around to the paperwork for the cross ram and the '67 L-88, someday.
I just don't see a legal manifold that the carb will not fit. OH, fit without machine work.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Don't get me started on the 67 L-88. Since the new factory race cars don't have to meet the old "50 built and sold through regular dealers to the public" rule, the 67 L-88 should be back in the guide. With 36 sold through regular channels, it is closer than some of the combinations for the new factory race cars.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

I don't disagree with Chuck's rules of "engagement", but this is bigger than that. There is no integrity in the rule book anymore. If it weren't for Billy and other purists I wonder what Stock Eliminator would be today.

Thank you Billy.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Not trying to stir anything up...just asking: Has Jerry MacNeish ever weighed in on this?

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

I don't see a problem lol

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Hi Jeff. May be a dumb question, so back in the day, why did the LD4B and the LD340 get there factory part numbers placed on them? I guess there were obvious reasons.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

I guess while the topic is up , as a 340 owner myself and knowing the 2 aluminum intakes that have factory part numbers, not really knowing the other brands, did any of them receive alternative intakes back in the day?? Just curious!! Or was Edelbrock only sleeping with Chrysler engineers???....,,

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Once again you Mopar guys have with a stroke of a pen managed to have stock take another step back.
I'm not sure how you managed to convince that there is no advantage to this intake but I will do my best now to convince them they are wrong .
Enough is Enough with this BS.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

AMC had an Edelbrock R4B manifold with an AMC part number and in the AMC parts book. But when it was proposed as a legal part a few years ago, it was squashed like a cockroach. I guess the smell of this MoPar cockroach has been ignored.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Jim, Edelbrock also did the 440-6 intakes for the '69's , casting #3412046. These intakes also have the 'Edelbrock' logo cast on one of the runners. In 1970, the 440-6's went to cast iron intakes.

As far as the LD4B & LD340 intakes....I've seen a NOS one in the original Edelbrock box that had the Chrysler number on it. -Al

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

One rule of thumb is any Edlebrock manifold that Chrysler used ( 69 440 6, late 70, etc)had Edlebrock and the casting number embossed on them in that time period. And they made stuff for all the manufacturers. I think the 396 Chevy had that manifold with the middle machined out that became legal and I think the 70 350 Chevy had a couple of alternate manifolds. Any know how that came about. That part number is definitely that time period. Being as NHRA has the Technical Service Bulletin number from 73 or 74 that allowed that piece, I am trying to find someone who has all those old TSB's. I think they (the intake) have been out there for some time. Anybody got one and where and when did you get it. Anybody got a factory cut manifold for the 396. There are a couple in my shop that belong to Helms. When did that happen. I know there is an NHRA letter saying it's ok. Anybody got that while we are talking. Just as soon get all the old stuff out of the system. Then we can start with the 80's and 90's crap and then we can move in the 2008 and later stuff. Somebody order pizza and we can watch the Super Bowl while we do this.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Double post...oops.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Seems to me if Chrysler or any other manufacture had an outside source supply them with a product and an OEM part number was cast into it, and you could buy it over the counter, it should be allowed. Just saying.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

My big problem with the NHRA in this incarnation is.......

They just can't leave it alone........

I don't know why that is???????????????

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Adger,

Jeff Lee never copied and pasted the AMC Group 19 section of the parts catalog.

It was the Chrysler racing representative at the time who submitted the catalog section to both NHRA and IHRA on behalf of AMC racers.
After seeing what was taking place with the allowance of parts on other makes of cars based on the premise of catalog parts, Service Bulletins and TSB's that contained dealer installed only parts, that they made the request.

AMC even issued a letter explaining to the industry why they would not install these parts on delivered cars because of budget.

I know Billy has a following on this forum and I respect his position on the issue. Nevertheless, I also believe it was a personal rift with Jeff that made Billy go after the AMC products. Why not go after the other makes of cars with the same perseverance as he did with the the AMC brand? How many AMC race cars are out there when compared to the other makes and brands? The other makes are as guilty or worse than what NHRA has allowed on other brands.

Also, I am posting the copies of the AMC letter and the sections of the Group 19 parts catalog so you can see there were not many parts when compared to the other auto makers catalogs.

In the early days, Chevrolet, Ford and Chrysler had these sections in their parts catalogs. I still chuckle and remember helping a friend with a Ford 2300 engine in a Pinto station wagon that had wiped the camshaft lobes. When we went to the dealership to get a new camshaft, the parts catalog showed a 0.600" lift camshaft for the 2300 engine with an OEM part number. He asked me if it would help his Pinto Station Wagon go faster...I just rolled my eyes...:D

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

I have one for the 383-4 & 440-4 & 440-6 with Chrysler part numbers, Edelbrock parts, had them a long time.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

and I got blamed for it...

and the QFT carb.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Joe,(Div 6)
I do have all the paper work and the story on the AMC issues. I was poking fun at Jeff Lee. There was actually a couple more guys that "Lost Bigger" in that deal than he did. I had 2 engine customers involved when the AMC approvals were rescinded. Yes, it cost me and them, but it was probably the right thing for NHRA to do. This manifold deal I have no dog in, but if it is going to be allowed they should look at the Z-28 Cross Ram and the '67 L-88, (can you say Camaro Cowl Hood)...to apply the same fairness and the Spirit of making the rules. At the Least those 2 or 3 issues need to be addressed. The LD manifold & AVS.. OK it fits, but for a Thermo Quad carb, come on...

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

We have been racing MoPar since 1972. We also were a WD for MoPar back in the 80's-early 90's. Chrysler would have Edelbrock cast a Chrysler part number into many intakes in order to sell it over the counter as one of their parts. I have several odd pieces from Edelbrock that have Chrysler numbers in them...one example is a Edelbrock STR intake manifold top for use with a TQ carburetor.They did the same thing with other suppliers too,such as Prestolite with their distributors and ignition parts.

I don't have a dog in this fight,just giving some historical parts info.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

I'm sure the 71 year will be corrected in the guide. 68-70 only AVS

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

I have the spread bore version of the LD340 with the Chrysler part number on it..and yes it's an unmodified original and no its not for sale. lol

And no, I don't currently have a dog in the fight!

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Gordie,
Is it the same part # as the square bore AVS manifold?

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

George,
I am currently out of state and can't lay my eyes on them right now, but am 99.9% sure it is the same # as the square bore version..I have 2 of the square bore version and 2 of the spread bore.

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

WOW there is one on ebay right now! $700

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Adger,

I understand what you are saying, however, if it was the right thing to do by NHRA, why would they make an example with the AMC racers, the smallest OEM brand/make in numbers of competitors, when there are other makes/brands that were given even bigger allowances in the past?

How about Boss 351 engines with Holley carburetors?
How about Chevy 283 engines with 327 intakes?
How about the single carburetor Hemi engine that was a NASCAR option?
How about higher lift off road cams for FE engines that were allowed just with a letter?

...and let's not forget illegal spec pistons when compared to the OEM piston, that have been approved?

I could write a book regarding the inconsistencies when changes were applied and allowed without any justifiable objective evidence or just by the stroke of a pen.

My point is that if NHRA was going to make an example, they should have made it across the board and not on a specific make and then continue approving aftermarket parts on other makes and brands.

Like Dr. Spock would say, "it's illogical"!

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Quote: The powers to be i'm sure will manage it all in some form or another eventually.

Can someone tell me the last time the chiefs in Glendora made a sensible decision?

Re: Important if you run D-H/S or SA
 

Uh ..... Yeah, there's one of those manifolds (the "D" unit) on E-Bay now for $2700. Makes 700 for the LD340 sound like a steal.