Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

In dealing with Mike for over 25 years, I have never known him to be anything less than a true professional.

Al Corda

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I am sure your friend Mike of 25 years is honest, true professional and hard working.Sure would be great for Mike to take a few minutes of his time to tell his side of the story if he really cares.Just Saying!

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Interesting thread
From what I’m seeing is the Chevy is all in with the new cars in Nhra
Seems like Ford can’t stand the heat and has cutback
Ford seems to be more into NMCA NMRA programs. Dominated by Fords
By bashing Ford on classracer is gonna do what?Jim?
In the beginning Ford Dominated NHRA you no why?
Because the hp ratings were BOGUS. It was easier But now HP ratings have caught up
Anyone running these cars because of cost are complaining Really?
Factory Shoot Out is what you wanted you got it
Now work harder spend more $$$$ or get a softer combo like you guys had.
Just like I do with my old stocker. It racing nothing Cheap nothing Easy to go fast
Chevrolet All The Way. My preference

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I think its is more of the lack of support than working hard. Talking to the cobra jet owners in Charlotte, they told me there is no support for factory showdown cars like the copo's and drag paks are getting from their reps. None of them had any issues with NHRA and the hp ratings, they just want to see ford performance show support like they did in the past for class that was really started by ford.. From what I heard this guy mike has only been to 2 races this season, and at the first race he was balled out by 3 top ford teams for the lack of support.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I hear he’s been at Barton’s getting his Mopar worked on.

To me it sounds like Jim is trying to get superceded parts on cars they never came on. You can run GT SS if that tickles your fancy. I understand you may been promised some things and spent some money only for it to fall through. Sounds like the bogus Mopar deal last year but you don’t see those guys complaining. I’m also sure Ford doesn’t want 2015 and older CJs outrunning 2018s in the Showdown. If that happens, what’s the incentive to buy a new one? They are trying to sell product first and foremost.

Watson’s performance shows the Fords have the pace. Just because some of them spin could be nothing more than car management or MT tires

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Back in the giddy days of Ford's return to drag racing everything was just fabulous for you guys and we, the guys with the old cars, were considered over-the-hill whiners. But, how times have changed. These Ford guys have had the best of it for 8-10 years and rubbing it in all the while. It appears now that Ford has had enough. Mike isn't the guy who makes the decisions - he simply does what he is told by Ford. Do you think he's going to come out here and tell you that Ford doesn't love you guys anymore? Sure they have a run of expensive new cars coming out and I'll bet they don't plan on supporting them either. 68 CJ's doesn't mean jack to Ford's bottom line. Ford executives were using you guys to have a little corpoate fun. And apparently Ford has moved on. You should consider the advice that you gave us - Stop complaining and work on your cars.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Superseded parts? don't think so. He was asking for the 5.4 4.0 blower. A combo that any 2010 and 2012 can run in stock if they wish. With your thinking chevy and mopar should pull their support once the 2020 models come out to make them buy new cars. Why can't they support both. NHRA had no issues with accepting it, and then ford took it away, seems like a slap in the face to racers that have supported ford for decades.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

You should be very happy with NHRA Pro Stock then because you can win every time.LOL

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Wheres Mike on this one ??? I guess no one realized that to run factory stock you'd have to buy a new car every year !!! cause they won't be able to sell the new ones if your running the previous model year combos !!! Sounds like a great deal for the OEM's !!! Anyway !! you got your own class and now the ugly truth is coming out !!! Like they say spend your money and work on your stuff !!

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

You don’t have to buy a new car every year!!! Matter of fact the changes up the rules and you can now run new combos in the older FS cars. If you do that the car is no longer eligible for the normal eliminator and can only run Shootout.

I have no dog in this fight but I can see why the other manufacturers would want the 4.0L Whipple in the mix with nothing but 2.9 blowers. I would think a guy would want the newest best combo.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Al
Just out of curiosity, what type of dealings have you had with Mike?


Just curious.


Jim D'Amore

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

They actually consider 3L superchargers now.


Initially that was the plan to have one common supercharger. Mike actually wrote a proposal to NHRA for that and when NHRA brought it up to Mike, he had a change of heart. As for the 4L, with the 4" pulley on the supercharger, to move the same amount of air as the pulley combination on the 3L we would have to spin the engine 2000 RPMs higher which anybody that knows the 5.4 motors with it's extremely long rod would be suicide.


Jim D'Amore

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

The motor swaps in the showdown class if you do this no longer allowed in stock, but you will be allowed in FGT superstock.


And also, for the people that cannot afford a whole new engine program, you can run the 5.4 in the newer chassis.


Jim D'Amore

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Ford releases new cars in 2009 and old cars are less competitive.
Old car NHRA racer gets put in charge of Ford customer program.
New Ford's now less competitive and teams upset at lack of support.
No new Ford race cars for nearly 3 years.
New 68 car run announced and orders locked in without ever showing a car or giving technical details, focusing almost entirely on 50th anniversary decals and gold stickers.

unfortunately you may be on to something.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

And somebody still believes in the Easter Bunny if he believes an old car racer can control the whims of Ford. Did you guys think this little scheme would last forever? For the time being, Chevrolet is still throwing up a lot of sponsor money but that will end some day.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

That may be, but what heck. How does a guy race a mopar, and friendly with gm but he works for ford. Seems like a lot of conflict of interest, but what do I know thats how its done today I guess. All I know is what the ford racers tell me, they are not happy with ford or mike. I guess it will be like the old days, if you want to race a ford you have to do it without there support.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I have not heard back from Ford Performance on their reasoning behind removing the 5.4L/4.0L combination out of the guide for showdown class. I have been speaking with Ford Performance's new boss Mark Wilson, in fact I drove to Ohio for the national event with 1 day's notice to have a meeting with him. The meeting lasted a good 3 1/2 hours. Basically I drove 20 hours, had a meeting for 3 1/2 hrs, multiple emails exchanged, and 139 text messages back and forth. He had his phone meeting with NHRA and I have not heard back from him in 6 days. As it stands now I do not know what direction he is going to go. He's got the approval from NHRA, in fact it was already on the books before Mike took it off...


I've been getting private messages and emails on this, people wanting to know if I've heard anything because they would like to use this combination. That is the reason for this post.




Jim D'Amore

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Tom please tell us who all these unhappy ford racers are. I think 90% of the ford racers that actually go to more then 2-3 races a year are happy. This JDM bash Mike D thread so I can get my way has been going over two weeks now and I only see 2-3 in the whole county mad. Heck Jim even questioned Al Corda a veteran class racer when Al had something good to say about Mike.

If you and JDM don’t like the ford rep you two should talk with any of the GM sportsman racers with cars over 8 years old. Most have no idea who their rep is, Heck most of them could not even tell you who their last three reps were. I asked two long time GM SuperStock racers that have won national events in 2018 with top of the line fast clean GM cars if they were getting any help from GM and they both just laughed we can’t even get a free T-shirt or hat.

I think Mike has done a good job helping ALL the ford racers new and old over the past year. Funny last year at Indy all ford racers new and old were invited for a group INDY photo. Has GM or Mopar ever done that for all their racers at an event like INDY?

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Charley,


Sorry to see you left the Ford camp and are now driving a Mopar. It's running pretty good too...


Mike and I got along great along as long as I (as he calls it) didn't poke the bear. I've had multiple emails and over 174 text messages with him regarding promises he made to 08,10, and 12 Cobra Jet owners. When NHRA agreed to these promises he pulled back and said Ford was no longer interested. You just simply don't do that to your loyal customers, it's more than 2-3 people as you suggested...by those years alone you're talking about 150 cars!


I was not questioning Al, I was more curious about his insights because I respect him. I am not concerned with knowing a GM or Mopar rep, I've been a loyal FORD customer for over 30 years. I'm not even concerned with knowing Ford's rep as long as if he makes a promise, he keeps it! Ford should not send a rep out to hug and kiss the baby and then stab the parents in their back. That's a politician's job...


For your information it's been 4 races that I have attended so far this year and as for my schedule it will be 11 before seasons over.


Jim D'Amore

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Free t shirts and hats, along with group photo. How could I have been so wrong about ford, my apologies.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I agree with charley mike is a good stand up guy and does what he can he works for a large corp. and his last name is not Ford !!!! and it his nice to have a guy like mike that talks to all ford racers not just cobra jet owners . and yes I was in that photo at indy !!! bill dyer stock 3077

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I am a ford guy(2017 Ford Mustang with a Stage2 Whipple Supercharger) and I have heard only one side of the story.I sure Mike is a great guy and I sure would like to hear his side of the story.Just Saying!

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Great post Charlie!

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I see a pattern here, hoven drives a mopar, downing drives a mopar, corda use to drive a mopar, and mike drives a mopar, but he support all the ford racers. How can that be, ford does not make anything for the old cars, what support could ford possible give. Oh he is a nice guy, my bad. Well he did get the rs combo approved, that's a big plus.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Todd,


I think you and I have met in the airports more than at the race track. Congratulations on your win, that Mopar has been around a long time. If you owned a 2008, 2010, or 2012 Cobra Jet you would understand how difficult it is for the owners of these cars to have an engine combination already on the books and then have Mike D. take it off the books while saying to NHRA Ford is no longer interested.. You should have seen how heart broken Don Fezell was realizing the class he help start (Showdown) that he could no longer participate in. Along with ruining the chance for more Cobra Jets to participate.


I know if my engine builder received R&D motors from Mike D. for Free I would stick up for him too. I would think he is a great guy if I got multiple engines for free. This is a whole new can of worms Mike is involved in, do you want me to open it?


Jim D'Amore

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Well, I can certainly take exception with that comment. I was present, competing in SS/B at the 2017 US Nationals and although I did receive a ball cap from Mike, I was NOT invited to participate in the Ford Racers group photograph. Draw your own conclusions.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Yes, please do.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

The old saying “something is wrong in Dodge” comes to mind as I read
this. If one owns one or more 5.4/4.0L 2008, 2010, or 2012 Cobra Jets,
your incentives for developing your racing program, or someone you were considering for driver/ sponsorship, are more limited. So are the resale value of these cars. Just simple, provable observations.
Douglas Jonak 🇺🇸

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

How so? 5.4/4.0 was never legal in Stock Eliminator at all. This year it is. OK, it's still not legal in the showdowns, but it never was. Plus the earlier cars can run any 5.0/2.9 combo now. Isn't that far less limitation than ever before?

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

kdanner,


The 5.4L 4.0L has been legal in stock for over 3 years. It was just recognized and put in the guide this year. But 3 years ago you could have raced this combination. As for the 5.4L 4.0L in showdown, it was on the books for 30 days. NHRA didn't post it for 2 weeks after it was approved so it was made viewable to the public for about 2 weeks. Roger Allen didn't like it so Mike D. took it off.


If you spent 8 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in R&D work on your 5.4L 4.0L combination why in the world would you put the 5.0L in play? It just doesn't make sense for those who want to run their original 5.4L combination. You can put a 2016 crate motor in a 10 or 12 SCJ car and run it in the showdown but you couldn't run the original 5.4L combination it came with.


Why would Mike D. take a legal stock eliminator combination out of the showdown guide? I asked him face to face and he could not give me an answer. I even asked his boss last night and he still hasn't given me an answer. It is a legal stock eliminator combination, the showdown class is stock eliminator.


Jim D'Amore

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Doug,


Funny you say that, Mike D. worked for Dodge for 30 years and if you want free stuff from Ford you have to own a Dodge, race a Dodge, or build Dodge/Mopar engines.


Jim D'Amore

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

The show down class is NOT Stock Eliminator! It is a Special Run class that is allowed to run in the Stock Eliminator Category.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

I don't know the difference but I do know NHRA calls it Stock Eliminator Showdown class. Even when it's announced, it's presented as Stock Eliminator showdown class. It started it's life in Stock Eliminator and the engine combinations are in the Stock Eliminator guide. If you take your Showdown Stock Eliminator car to a divisional race you can run it in Stock Eliminator. So every FS Stock Eliminator engine combination is legal expect for the Ford 5.4L 4.0L and the GM 327 4.0L combination. Mike D. and Roger Allen made that happen.


Jim D'Amore

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Yeah, some folks have been getting away with calling it Stock but it's not. They snuck these cars into Stock Eliminator by calling them a special production run. None of them were showroom production cars.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

as an outside observer that's works in a dealership the answer to your question is far simpler than it may appear Ford has no desire to see a mustang win a "Factory Showdown Shootout" with an engine they no longer produce. no mustangs will be sold on Monday from a 5.4 win on Sunday diehard racers care but upper management just wont see the benefit

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

For accuracy purposes, NHRA’s term is Factory Stock Showdown. And it is it’s own class/eliminator.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

There is nobody on the planet who is buying a 5.0 Mustang on monday after watching a FSS Mustang win on sunday. Maybe that was the case 50 years ago.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

First off 2 different things Jim. DrJRacing said things are "more limited", when we know this year they are less limited than ever before.




I'll just have to take your word for that I guess, but in reviewing the latest stats for this year and the end of year stats for last year, no one raced one in stock eliminator.




I'm aware it was posted as legal, for a very short time in the winter when there were no races, then removed. So, no one ever raced one. If someone spent money on one during that period, it's unfortunate. I agree that shouldn't have been made legal then not in short order. I think most would agree that it doesn't belong there when for years it was a SS only combo, just like the the 327/4.0 doesn't belong there either.




1. Who are you talking about? Again, I find no record of the 5.4/4.0 ever racing in stock eliminator. I hope you aren't talking about a Superstock car.
2. They can run their original 5.4/TVS combination, with weight break, everyone knows that.




Don't you think the very simple answer to that is the 4.0L blower, when the current situation is all 3 brands running a 2.9 blower and running close together? I don't think anyone wants the potential to revisit anything like the old days of Pro Stock where lead trophies had to be handed out in attempts to constantly level the playing field.

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

The only reason it was not in stock when it came out, there was no weight break for it to fit into. There was no FS/AA class. I don't know, but i don't think the 5.4 combo is better than a 5.2 just because the sc is bigger. I also don’t think most will agree when you say most will agree...duh. Its in the guide so I don’t know what your point is. This thread is about ford giving then taking it back for un know reasons. I wish someone from ford would come on here and tells us why, is that to much to ask.


5.2 Combo
bore 3.631 stroke 3.649
Piston- dome 12.5 CR
Cam- .590 lift
Throttle body- bigger than the 5.4
Valves- 2 -1.513 2 -1.285
RPM 9000 rpm+
supercharger 2.9 pulley size 3.25 inch
ram air front entrance supercharger

5.4 Combo
bore 3.553 stroke 4.166
piston- flat 10.5 cr
cam- lift .473
Throttle body smaller than the 5.2
valves- 2 -1.462 2 -1.265
rpm 8200+
supercharger 4.0 pulley size 4 inch
no ram air rear entrance super charger

Re: Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products
 

Which class does your car currently fit?