Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

When we did our nostalgia races, I always had a S/SS combo. Yes, a few were late model , GT type cars. But whenever I was out and about, promoting the next event, people would always ask if we were having the Super stock or A/FX cars again. They knew that they were the best performing cars on the property.
I would usually start the show with them, right after the intermission, speeches, special awards , etc. Sometimes , maybe a fast Gasser match race pair.
The point is, people who go to the races, maybe once or twice a year, want to be entertained.

I go out to a Summit race once in a while, and the first thing that happens is they start out with Big Wheel races, then Juniors, then maybe Sportsman bracket, including the duallys and tow vehicles. God bless them all , and everybody has a place to race, which is fine ...but it is just plain boring to a casual race fan who wants to go out to the races on a Saturday night. Most of the spectators are the families involved.

I guess it's no big secret why spectators come out for the "street car" and no prep , 10.5 etc events . They want to see that stuff that covers about a half mile of track, within a quarter. LOL

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Boy, is that ever a true statement!

It wears me out trying to explain to someone everything that is happening at a drag race and why it is happening.

With all the different classes and rules, even people who are otherwise car savvy, have a really hard time grasping the whole concept.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Rick I gave up trying to explain it even to my old friends....that raced !!!

I show them how my t-stop works and show them my weather station and my laptop and prediction software.

I explain how it all works and NO IT ISN'T JUST TURN SOME KNOBS AND RUN 8.90 !!!! Sure at times it all works as expected. Just like every other car out there.....there are times it doesn't.....

For me the challenge in .90 racing is managing it all and keeping the car as good as I can...….and it can be a real struggle as any .90 racer will tell you.

I've raced practically every category there is/was and flat out racing was limited to Class runoffs going back many years for the most part.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

It can be solved by going back to the way it was in the 60s when I started racing. Run class all heads up then the winner of each class runs in a handicap for overall eliminator. It worked well before and can work again It will make more racers whos cars are not up to par work on them to improve there performance and if they don't want to they can go bracket racing. NHRA has made class racing just glorified bracket racing as it is now. The fans will understand what they are watching. And most racers will be happy.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

all I see here is a bunch of old guys nostagic about the way things were and perhaps when they turned on more win lights.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

One day you will be old to.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

He is old! He's also realistic about it.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Being realistic is fine some people don.t like change but we all know thinks change all the time not going to stop.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

How does any of this have anything to do with "splitting" the pros and Sportsmen? We're old, the pros are old and the B-O-D is old. You're old too Ed. Your kid, not old.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

When bracket racing came along, we lost the slow guys to that. Ended up with very small car counts in Stock Eliminator. I asked some local guys why they moved to ET brackets. "Because I have a chance doing that". Mattered if we were fast back then.

We used to have Stock Eliminator, Super Stock, and Modified Elminator every first & third Sunday's at Tulsa. Some of us also ran at Fort Smith, AR second & 4th Sunday's.

Ran off National Records then, run more than a tenth under, you break out. I was often the fast car at Tulsa, about a tenth over my own record.

Now it's all dumbed down to bracket racing. Hard to get motivated to try to make it any faster. Seems very strange to figure ways to slow it down, that can be easily undone for heads ups, which won't effect your lights.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Isn't this what we've spent several pages debating? What the Sportsman side has to offer, especially from a presentation/marketing perspective?

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Yes, it is. What does "splitting" the pro program and the Sportsman program as they exist now have to do with who is old?!?

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

It had to happen Ed Wright or the sport would have been long gone.....It was on life support right before Bracket racing took off...….

IMHO there is no way the Pros and Sportsman can be split other than we no longer are included in National events other than maybe a couple sportsman only events....and maybe one to decide National Champs.....

Division Champs + maybe a few more positions race for the National title..

Drag racing as it was in the past is never going to happen and there's no way it could be like it was in the past....

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Those people are more likely to be longing for the glory days of yesteryear when there was an insatiable thirst for drag racing-based entertainment.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Very true. But as far as "they" are concerned, we're all green, paying for the privilege of playing in their sandbox. Divisional ads usually focus on alcohol cars and maybe the booked in show if they have one. At a national event, do they really care if spectators still in the stands after the fuel cars are done have a preference?

While we're talking about TV ads, why does NHRA have fuel cars blowing up and crashing as the attention grabbers in their ads, when they clearly see that as a bad thing and are proactively trying to limit the frequency of that happening? Is that what the casual fan hopes to see when he buys his ticket.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Yup.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Before I started trying to race again, I would go to close by National events to watch my long time friend Mike Edwards. I was surprised to see the stands empty when the fuel cars finished a round. I learned to wait behind the stands for them to empty, and go find a good seat. I asked a couple of guys leaving why they don't stay to watch Pro Stock? Both said "Too boring".

Had a good seat for Pro Stock, Comp & SS. I personally won't suffer through the fuel cars.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Yes I'm old, older than some here not as old as others. What I'm not is living in the past longing for the good old days of the NHRA. The good old days are right now! I live in the present, adapt to change and play the game. I'm having a great time racing with my son. I don't care about fans, clearly don't care about payouts what I care about is WINNING that is the reason why we do this.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Mark I would sell it as the greatest car show on earth. Drag racing. Get a shot of all the sportsman car lined up with each other. Showing some of the old iron with some of the new. Then show 2 super stockers leaving the line wheels up. Any business I ever owned I had to market the hell out of it to make it successful. Certainly didn't turn one paying customer away. BP

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

To 1320. I can appreciate how you want to race not giving a crap really about the sport or the future of it. Let them crap on you and just keep doing your thing. That may be great for you but that's not how the majority of us sportsman racers want to race. I don't want to go back to the old days. I'm happy and accept changes. I just hate to get screwed by an organization that my support helped build the last 40 years. It's disheartening to watch how they have treated almost anyone they deem as not a big enough revenue stream. Like modify production, pro stock trucks, now pro stock and all the sponsors they have chased off. How do you stick it to VP after they have been with you all those years. It's all about short term money. Who ever has the deepest pockets that year. I have had several businesses over the last 40 years. All have been successful and their business model is not one that will have long term success. Some day they will need to go over those bridges they burnt. I race stock and the class cars still have a lot to offer to fans if just marketed the right way. BP

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Nobody craps on me. Please show me how the NHRA is crapping on me or you for that matter. I pay my entry fee and they provide me with a parking spot, tech/safety inspection in an attempt to keep all honest and safe, a race track that has been inspected and prepared, staff to keep the event organized and moving and finally and most important, a chance to win a Wally and prize money. Bonus is if I attend all my divisions events and accumulate more round wins than my competitors, I get a big Wally, a gold card and more $. So tell me again how the NHRA is crapping on me.

https://i.imgur.com/1s00pvS.jpg

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Tim, the event(s) you refer to is the “Northern Class Nationals” that Michael Beard, partner Anthony Walton, and a supporting cast held at National Trails in 2014/15. Participation was far below expectation, given the central location and purse. Mr. Beard & company won’t repeat the effort. My short run in this fraternity has brought me to the conclusion that, despite all the apparent disgust with the NHRA, the majority of our community are not likely to run out of reasons why alternative hosts are second rate. :(

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

I didn't really expect you to get it. That's why your happy racing the way you do. Good for you. Not a dig against you. But as you can see by reading most of the posts over the last several years most aren't happy with the way we get treated. The easy answer would be to quit. But as most drug addicts know it's not that easy. BP

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

I didn't really expect you to tell me how the NHRA is crapping on me because you can't. All I see is a bunch of old men over the last several years here who aren't happy largely because they are no longer competitive because of $ or eroded skills complaining. My advice is take the easy out and quit, no one is forcing you to show up!

Again, As I said in my opening comments..."Motorsports is on life support. Enjoy what time it and you have left and stop complaining."

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Ed, You apparently didn't read my whole post. There were several examples how they have been screwing racers and sponsors. I have never seen you in a stocker nor super stocker. So I'm not sure you really can understand this. Not sure why you brought up age but it has nothing to do with how NHRA has treated their paying customers. I could write several pages but I'll give you just a few examples. If you get it great. if you don't. I don't really care. In 1999 I won the Virginia Nationals in Stock. I ended up with 12 thousand and that big wally that means so much to you. Win that race today 10 years later and at a cost of another 100 to enter and you will be lucky to get 6 thousand. A few years back when they started to lower entrance levels in the sportsman categories at National Events. We were told by their reps they wanted us to support the divisional races. This year at the Gator's racers with a grade of 6 didn't have a chance to get in. Tec you apparently have not been to a National Event. There is no tec!!! Prepped track. Again you don't race stock. Nor could you be watching at many of the Nationals. Track prep can be really good one round and turn to crap in another one. I've watched several stockers go down the track in one lane blowing the tires away. Sometimes the crew will stop and try to fix it and other times they just keep on running them. Your from NJ. Did you go to E-Town Nationals a couple of years ago. The traction was so bad Barton stopped his car on the track and got out. Do you know any of the sponsors that used to support racing. I do. NHRA and their greed chased them and many more away. I could keep on going on but no thanks especially with you. And taking advise from you. Really Ed you would be one of the last persons on earth I would take advice from. One thing we have in common is that we both love to race. And yes we are lucky to still be doing this but I as a paying customer expect more and don't mind being vocal about it at any age. So to end this back and forth I will agree that we disagree. If your at a race this year and I'm there come by and we can continue this conversation. Barry

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

The NHRA treats me just fine. I love going to their races. Are there some things that they might be able to do better, for sure. But, as long as they're around, I'll be racing with them.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

I don’t really care if the class run offs are at a National or a points meet. I like running class. I actually see that as a positive step. I would hate to see all class runoffs go away from the nationals, but if they added more class optional races at points meets, I think that would be a plus. I would pay to run class. Especially if that helped pay for the Class eliminations and maybe even a tech inspector to tear down a person or two.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Nothing wrong with this statement and yes there are some that want things the way they were. However, I believe the context of the conversation is really about the performance classes that are more diffficult to administer and certainly add different nuances to the game then the non performance classes, it is easier and cheaper for NHRA to hold the non performance classes so the bean counters prefer that.

They are not trying to squeeze out the bracket classes 1320, so of course you feel good.

1320, no question that you should be proud of what you and your son have accomplished, but I don’t think it fits in the conversation. When you start entering stock or superstock, it might feel a bit different.

I love NHRA racing and will continue to support things that can make it better, it is just a shame that they don’t look for solutions that include us very often. I do see the D2 Director, making a consistent effort to support us, and that is a bright spot. I am sure there are more doing the same. It does not seem that the upper level execs have the view of what the performance classes are and why the people that race in them are motivated in a different way than many non performance class racers are. It does not make either type of racer wrong at all, it is just a difference that NHRA execs don’t seem to understand. Now that lack of understanding is hurting the pro program as well as the sportsman program,

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

20 years ago, I'm not surprised. Old guy living in the past who hasn't won in 2 decades and we're back to the $, nuff said.

Barry, FYI, I've had multiple opportunies to purchase a new COPO, one day I'll be in the stock lanes. I ain't skeered!:D

like me, this old guy is having a great time racing with the NHRA.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Ya know Ed, looking at the picture of you and your son, your wife must be a really good looking woman!

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

she is :p :D

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Happy Valentines Day, boys and girls...
Mike A114

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Getting back to the subject at hand. Splitting the pro show and the sportsman is somewhat too vague to answer if it is good or not and good for whom. Lots of questions arise from the split. At the national event, if splitting did happen,
1. Does the entry fee the sportsman pay go only to the sportsman payout?
2. Does the sportsman have a say on track prep ( we know the pro's like a different prep).
3. How does the run schedule change, Who gets first priority?
4. Does tech change?
5. Does contingency change? and if so how?
6. Does the sportsman get any TV coverage?
7. Who does the race director now report to? and how is a conflict handled.
8. Does the pro TV show get the sportsman bumped from Sunday eliminations and filled with entertainment of a different kind?

These are just some random thoughts and I have no answers whether it would be good to split or not. I guess the big question becomes, If the split does occur "what is in it for me" needs to be answered from both the pro side and the sportsman side.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

I was wondering how tall Ed's mailman is. :D

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Really surprised we haven't seen the 68 Chevelle bracket car in this thread yet ;-)

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Beetlejuice:p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbKYio6OvKM





Me too:D

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Now, I know nobody here has a problem with red '68 Chevelles.
Seriously enough, in the last 5 years, we've noticed a problem.Five or ten years ago, Friday in the pits at the Winternationals,was seriously crowded. Just getting back to your pit space after a run was a challenge driving through the crowd. They changed the return road and the route back to the pits to alleviate that issue. Saturday was a packed house, and Sunday there wasn't even a place to sit with a ticket in the main stands. Now, Thursday was very sparse, Friday wasn't as sparse, by Monday,3/4 of the field was eliminated by then. Saturday wasn't epically crowded as much, Monday everybody had elbow room as well. The rain did a lot of this, but even when we had good weather all 4 days the last several years,the crowds aren't near as big as they used to be. Also, the east side grandstands now only extend 1000 feet. The last 300 feet or so have been removed. That is probably because they are under the landing approach path for the little airport across the road from the track. The point is, drag racing just doesn't seem to draw the large crowds any more.
Now. The point IS: We have a problem. This affects all of us. After several analysis' of the problem comes to light, many different opinions being kicked around, all of which need to be looked at, the bottom line is that we are in this together. A mutual solution needs to be reached, or we all suffer the consequences. Is this sport going to be around in 10 years or so, or do we all stay inside, collect stamps, watch rerun videos and movies, or quietly reminisce some other way?Let's explore solutions rather than creative applications of blame.

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Jeez ..I was kidding. I'd really like to see the fast, white one from Colorado

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

there may be a faster A body, I would hope so since it's been 11 years since I've sold it, but not a better working small tire, bolt on suspension in the country. 3880 lbs. launched off the footbrake to a best 60 foot of 1.28!


my initial comments to this thread days and it still stands...

Re: A subject for discussion on a winter's day.
 

Msdrga