Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

I said that I'm happy to be wrong as long as I can learn something from it. I'm asking to be educated. You saying "just because" isn't adding value.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Just Because? Last time for you. You posted that I might think your comment had no value. And then you said you would be happy to be wrong if that was not the case. I said you were wrong about this comment. That is, your comments do have value.

Now we have to return to the original intent of this thread. We have wondered in the woods long enough!

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

I don't want sportsman racing eliminated from national events, nor do I think it is going to happen anytime soon. If it did, I don't think it would be the end of the world.

I guess the class eliminations portion will remain a mystery to me, which isn't going to help me come around to your point of view. I'm sorry that intelligent discussion is too much to ask here. Maybe in another venue someday.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

At the Orlando points meet I was the only car that pitted on the "spectator" side. I had a pretty steady flow of visitors. Almost every one of them asked me what the deal was with the way all the super class cars ran. I did my best to explain to them what was going on, but don't feel that I really won them over. Maybe this can be fixed with better announcing? I think that a lot more could be done to make sportsman racing more "fan friendly".

As a side note, the stands have been packed for Lights Out........

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Over 15,000 watching online and over 15,000 (SRO) at the track yesterday. They're having a meeting in California tomorrow to discuss making RVW, X275 and N/T new eliminators. .

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

They already run No Prep at the Division races, call it test and tune or something like that. Sadly, I had to ponder a moment to consider if your comment was in jest.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Spectators, understandably, expect flat out, who gets there first wins racing. Dial-ins, delays, etc., don't provide that.
Handicaps, 90 racing, and whatever else isn't heads up came about because the very nature of heads up racing results in a combination of hard work and money spent. Anyone can provide the hard work, but not everyone can provide the money. When this became apparent, racing started to suffer (low car counts).
If there was a simple, easy way to communicate to the average fan the fact that racing is what it is because of that "root of all evil", maybe spectating would increase.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

I'm back, did you miss me?:D

ghetto racing and the element it appeals to and brings to a track is no competition to the NHRA/LODRS events and what we do and I'll never be any part of it.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

A recent post "WOULD YOU QUIT", by Mark Yacovone was the preamble to this present post. I think more was said there than this post. Money was important back in the 60's,70's,80's and 90's but not like it is now. With a manufacturer, supplier or whomever..., there are so many more options that bring money in to those that support this sport. The internet in general, websites,forums, FB and the rest are all vying for the same pot of money as racers . How do we do this? Definitely not by pissing and moaning. Pinks All Out started in 2005 and those first several episodes were lame. Yet the series grew and lasted till 2010.A fledgling show that kept changing to grow viewership. Many other shows evolved from that including street outlaws. Take a look on You Tube and see how many organizations there are that video and promote street racing or just racing. They are making money. Sportsman racers are not street racers or"bracket racers" but we need to find that niche that pays us to race. On You Tube you can find a particular class of class racing Amazing to see how many people watched 6 cylinders race at Indy. Same with many other classes. This is the hook that will get non racers to drift over, understand and accept handicapped class racing. It would be a better deal if Forest Lucas would take over the sportsman classes. He has the infrastructure to produce, introduce and define or redefine sportsman racing. If we don't get our act together....

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

This gets my vote for "Most Ignorant". I have quite a few friends that attend that particular event. They are far from "ghetto". Your superior attitude is sad.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

good chance then you won't like my position on the wall and illegal immigrants.:p

It is ghetto racing regardless that you have friends that support and participate it that hood atmosphere. Felons and weapons abound those events. You can have it!!

WE, NHRA/LODRS competitors are better than that!

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Ed, that right there made me crack a smile reading this **** show.



Get your point on the Grudge Racing Crowd since we are both from NJ which has healthy participation those attending can be a show in itself. These events and cable shows evidence it has always been a national activity and has become at least interesting to race fans.

But I digress, the comment about "felons and weapons" insinuating there are none at NHRA/LODRS Events is a hoot. There are plenty but they show up in toters and stackers with top of the line race cars and crews.
Do agree that MOST of us are better than that or just don't derive our expendable income from illegal activities. :eek::D

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

My concerns: Costs of everything and the median age of current participants in racing. For the racing I love most(Super Stock and Comp), there is definitely a concern that once the next generating retires, that no one will replace them. Now, could it be that the age just reflects the financial mobility necessary to participate in these classes? Possibly so, but there should be a concerted effort to get costs down to whatever inflation deems is fair for today. I think manufacturers should aid in this as well too. I don't know if someone has the expertise to speak to how the rising costs of different things have effected the costs of racing but their input would be interesting to look at. Looking at the inflation calculator. From 1970 to today, things on average are 548.7% more expensive (https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/). Looking at the cost of racing as a whole, are the current expenses on par with that. Are working class job wages high enough to make sure the median of younger generations can afford to race? Or is racing simply a higher middle class hobby? If it is, can we really ever expect more participation given our nations current wealth distribution. I personally don't know what these numbers would look like as a whole for sportsman racers but it is something to consider.

I will say that I don't know how to combat getting younger generations interested in motorsports. It tends to be a love it or hate it mentality. I believe that Quotas are not needed anymore. I don't think there should be any barrier to entry. Anybody ready to spend there money should be allowed in. The move to stream all divisionals I believe was good move as well. It allows you to get more eyeballs on the product your trying to sell.

I think all opinions should be welcomed. I do agree that the way in which we share our opinions matter as well though. You can have the most insightful opinion ever but if you don't take the time to think about how that message can best be delivered, your words can fall on deaf hears. It reminds me of debating race and its problems in our country. Message delivery is everything to getting your message heard. Well, some of the time anyway.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

I'm wondering how long no prep is going to last after the tracks insurance rates skyrocket with all the wreckage.,sooner or later someone is going to get seriously hurt or killed maybe spectators. They will start facing law suits and then it won't look so profitable. Plus a lot of tracks get their insurance through NHRA let's see how that flys.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

My half baked ideas to increase interest are:

1. Friday or Saturday night no break out racing run off the indexes for stock and super stock. Separate $100 buy in from regular Sunday eliminator, 100% payout down to semi finalist. Let the real fast guys put on a show. Give it a catchy name that the public can relate to like "Muscle Car Showdown".

2. Online betting has exponentially grown on all forms of sports including E sports. It is a significant part of street racing allure. Find a way to do online betting on drag racing with a portion of the pot going to race winners and the track/tear down tech guys. It would be fun to be able to put bets on class racing at Indy from my couch.

3. Have more double points meets with Saturday and Sunday eliminators.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

I like most of your ideas.........Not very comfortable with the idea of
Paramutual betting for a multitude of reasons.

My boy drives a Turbo Mustang in "No Prep" events for the owner.
One of the cars in our shop got to the finals in "Pinks All Out" and
gets raced in No Prep events at our local track.

I would strongly suggest that you do not come up to me at the Race Track
and call me "Ghetto" to my face (You might not like what happens next even
with my deteriorating elder skills)!

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

now we got one old man making internet forum threats...pathetic! I stated and standby my opinion regardless of who disagrees or whose feelings and ego are now bruised.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

The problem I see with betting is what stops me from betting on the other guy and dumping the race?

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

My 2 cents, from someone who has followed nhra drag racing since the early seventies, was on the starting line when Jungle Jim ran summernationals, remember the days when you could sneak up to the starting line? NHRA member since 1984.

NHRA class racing completely changed the game when it put dial ins on Stock and super stockers, and even now in small part in comp with personal indexes.

They did this because participation was going down and it was done to increase participation. It did increase participation but at what cost?

What this has caused is It is more important to build a consistent car than it is to build a fast car. If you do not have to build the fastest car for it's class, what is the incentive to buy the latest and greatest part for your car. which creates, what is the reason for manufactures to post contingency?

I was to the Lights out 10 race this past weekend in georgia, 7 classes, heads up with the lowest winning purse $4,000 and top 2 classes $50,000 and $10,000 to winner in each. The stands were packed, yes, when some of the slower classes ran some fans did leave the stands. Slowest cars had to have at least a 8.50 cert and were running 125mph in 1/8 mile. Approx 200 heads up cars at race. I would say average age of participants were 35, I was there with a 40 year old who was racing in the slowest class in a 67 chevelle that can run supercomp and is supercomp legal.

Manufacturers midway had more sponsors than any national or divisional race i have been to since the NHRA national events in the 90's.

My opinion, go back to class runoffs for eliminations and then handicap off of record, with records being fastest recorded run in class, no backup needed.

Just opinion, I love to watch heads up stock / superstock class racing, when bracket part starts I tune out, or go back to pits.

I am presenting this not to bash

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

If you think the Lights Out and No Mercy races are ghetto you should probably educate yourself. I find it ironic that in another post you were busting the Stock-SS guys chops insinuating they thought they were better than you and your son yet you are quick to say because you run a NHRA LODRS series race you are better than others that race other series. Alex Laughlin won 50k in Georgia this weekend at the ghetto race and I am sure he will enjoy that purse money as much as any NHRA money. Ron and Jason Terrell were also at the race (Tin Soldier). Ron is a long time super stock racer and his son has a car that he raced in Ducks race. Many of the teams that race these events are professionals that do radial tire racing and Tune those style cars for a living or build the cars.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

The South Eastern Gasser Association (SAGA) races also fill the stands. (Probably too "Redneck" for Ed)

The NMCA gets a decent crowd too. (Probably not "Fancy" enough for Ed)

My point when I mentioned Lights Out was to emphasize that they get spectators in the seats. There is a lot of talk about purse sizes on here. The only way that you could justify any kind of increase would be to add value to the program. Everyone talks about stagnant purses for Sportsman Racers. Nobody talks about the standing room only crowds in the "Good Old Days".

The fans still exist. But, just like in the past, they would rather watch heads-up racing.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Would it be possible to get back to the purpose of this thread. Getting an advocate and what would you say to him?

The name Charles Myers has been mentioned.

If this person is allowed to talk with all members of the Sportsman Racer Advisory Council by divisions I think progress could be made.

The biggest hurdle would be getting together with all these people and coming away with reasonable ideas on how to fix each divisions problems, as seen by these representatives (who would get suggestions from their local racers).

Next hurdle would be having the powers that be at NHRA listening open-minded to each idea as it is presented. I have heard that the idea was tried before and NHRA fired the representative almost immediately.

Just my 2 cents to get this thread back on track. Thank You.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Golly Mr.. What is with the references to these wise mens age

group. ? They have forgotten more about how to extract every
.001 and .0001 of ET out of a car than most of us will ever know.
Mentioning there age group seems very disrespectful..:confused:
I have the utmost respect for them. Congrats on your

super comp championship. You seem very humble.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

I would have him tell NHRA to run class heads up at every event. And also run as they do now . That would give the racers that want to build there cars to go fast a way to be happy. And by running the rest as they do now lets everyone have a fair chance. It will increase the car count and the fans will have a better chance of knowing whats going on. Why only do it at a few events. That is not the only thing they need to do but it is one that will help.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

I also find it hilarious that those that don't win races want the purse increased.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

I find it hilarious that your son is the CHAMPION and YOU haven’t won jack....but you do know EVERYTHING !!!!!

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

this ain't about my son, your wrong and I know what I know and I know this is a lot about nothing but the ramblings of a few old men, complaining on an internet forum, living in the past and looking for a way to be competitive again, no mind win a race.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Bruce,
Thank you for starting this thread,

My 2 cents,

80 Entries to each event in all sportsmen classes except Comp, T/D and T/S.
64 Qualified fields in each category.
S/G, S/St, S/C can qualify on ET, RT, or Package.
Stk, SS qualify off indexes. (Performance)
Extra 20 entries in each might take a extra 30-60 minutes on Thursday or Friday.
5 Classes X20 Entries @ $300 ought to cover cost for extra hour.

Random 2 Teardowns in SS and Stock per race to be drawn from #'s 1-80 by NHRA , U qualify that # you get tore down. (Equal enforcement for all, not just the performance folks, If you've CHOSE to race Stock or SS it is part of the game.)

Run order: STK, (I don't love being first but hey), S/ST, S/C, SS, SG
When S/St not competing move S/C up behind STK.


Gotta couple more ideas but going back to work.......

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

I'm OK with advocating for doing the right thing, instead of squeezing every cent out of the collective group. Even if I don't personally profit. It's about respect.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

And what do you do with the average guy in the middle of the pack who loves racing but seldom if ever wins and his car is not low in the index and has no idea how to tear his motor down and put it back together when he is randomly picked for teardown. How is that fair or right?

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

all this is really about is a few old men who are no longer competitive, that think they are entitled to compete at the national events of their choice despite not supporting the LODRS, putting the work in and accumulating the grade points required to enter that want their voice aka complaints heard and acted upon. Good luck, it ain't going to happen nor should it. The system in place works just fine.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

A racer accepts the possibility of being torn down when he/she enters an event and shows up to race. It applies to every one of us - no matter how rare tear downs are now days. The potential for being torn down is one of the defining characteristics of Stock and Super Stock.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Bruce you can't be torn down when you haven't raced in 4 of the last 6 seasons.;):D

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Does anybody think this guy has contributed anything of value to this thread? He's seems bent on humiliating himself and his son. Never seen anything like this before.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Scott,
Thank you for your thoughtful post.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Here's the bottomline line Bruce, you nor anyone else complaining in this and the other threads speaks for NHRA Sportsman racers, least of which me. It should come as no surprise that not 1 TOP 10 points racer in any class, in any division has joined in to support your crusade. No one of any merit cares about your opinion or your plight, you don't race!

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

Holy SH#T......something we both agree on!! 😎

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

It is pretty hard to post an opinion or suggestion with out getting caught up between the feuding sides in this thread. I'm out

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

It's not about me. I asked for feedback from all racers. No matter where they place in the rankings. And here's the bottom line for you. You don't call the bottom line. You're out here making a mess of this site as you have done many times before. Nothing new from you.

Re: If an advocate could be found - what would you say?
 

I don't know, ask the competitors in boxing, horse racing and tennis that throw matches?